Ukara without adult playing airsoft

[Guest Rupert Karim]

Hi guys, I’m 13 and I play airsoft regularly at a registered site (gunman airsoft) and want to buy a jg gun and a few other bits from Taiwan gun but I don’t have a ukara licence. Is there any way of one of parents getting a ukara licence by proving that I play airsoft  or would they themselves have to play the three times in order to get the licence?

[Hudson]

They would have to play themselves if they wanted to purchase it or you will have to wait until you're 18, there's no way around it I'm afraid.

[Guest]

It’s not a licence.

 

The defence is for the toys intended use, if you need a UKARA number your patents have to play themslves, sorry

[concretesnail]

Your best bet would be to continue  to play and if your parent was willing, talk to the shop on site, as they would be fully aware of your participation and that would be the defence.

Ukara attemps to prove intended use and participation for retailers; to sell to a buyer who isn't present, I.e. over the Internet or who has walked into a physical retail store, rather than somebody who is on site and has an active history on that site.

 

If your site doesn't have a sensible shop then you'll likely out of luck.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, concretesnail said:

Your best bet would be to continue  to play and if your parent was willing, talk to the shop on site, as they would be fully aware of your participation and that would be the defence...

 

... If your site doesn't have a sensible shop then you'll likely out of luck.

 

100% this, and I did the same before I got my UKARA as it was obvious what the purchase from the site shop was for 👍

[Tackle]

Am I the only one triggered lol

[Tommikka]

10 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Am I the only one triggered lol

 

 

https://www.popularairsoft.com/news/ukasgb-ukara-aba-proposal-vcr-bill

 

Players, once they have received their license (which identifies them as being a legitimate user), would then be able to purchase Airsoft guns from dedicated Airsoft retailers.

[Cannonfodder]

2 hours ago, Tackle said:

Am I the only one triggered lol

Almost as much as the septicisation of the English language. Licence is spelt with a C ffs

[Tackle]

I know that ffs, blame Huawei spellchecker lol

5 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Almost as much as the septicisation of the English language. Licence is spelt with a C ffs

 

[Shamal]

I've got a licence to drive,  one to watch TV and a licence to thrill (but that's just between myself and my wife)and a 'license to fly drones'. A personal licence to wax lyrical as I so wish. But no airsoft licence.🤔

 

Regards 

[Rogerborg]

The legality:

Selling to a parent on the understanding that it'll be (perfectly legally) gifted to you for airsoft use arguably satisfies the letter of the legislation, so, sure, ask your site.

 

Also, there's no age limit on the defence for modification.  A 13 year old can be gifted an IF and modify it into a RIF for airsoft use.

 

The intent:

What Parliament probably intended was to keep RIFs out of the hands of under-18s, as it's an offence to sell any imitation firearm, realistic or otherwise, to someone under 18, or for someone under 18 to purchase one.

 

However, the law is what they wrote, not what they might have written, so gifting and modification remain legal.

 

However to the however, I'm not entirely comfortable with 13 year olds possessing RIFs, even legally, and even regular players who already own IFs and who make responsible sounds.

 

I'm thinking of the thread on Facebook with a brass-necked lad who just openly begged strange men to buy him a RIF for airsoft use. Most folk quite rightly told him to do one, but a few "u can't tel me wut 2 do" contrarians actually clubbed together and bought him one, for no reason that I could see other than to wind up the folk who predicted it wouldn't end well.

 

And of course, his next posts were pictures of himself posing with his new assault-style toy on his roof, and a video of him capping off mags with his mates in what was clearly a public field backing onto housing.  He did eventually take them down after even his sugar daddies facepalmed.

[Cannonfodder]

Was that the twat who decided a photo op on the roof was a good idea till armed response showed up? 

[BigAl]

"Also, there's no age limit on the defence for modification.  A 13 year old can be gifted an IF and modify it into a RIF for airsoft use."

 

Er, no thats manufacturing a RIF Illegal, you need a defence to do it.  13 or 31 doesn't matter, it is illegal.

 

You need to either:

 

1. Talk you dad into playing.

2. Use hire guns till your old enough to buy.

3. Get a two Tone.

4. Talk to site shop see if they will sell you one, but they store it at the site for you.

 

They are the immediate options  In the longer term you get a two tone and establish yourself at the site till you have a membership ( if there insurance allows 13 year old members ). At this point as a skirmisher you have a defence and can then manufacturer a RIF, ie paint your two tone.  UKARA is irrelevant, its basically a manufacturers Association.  Having your club membership ( your defence ) registered on there database makes it easier to prove your defence but that is all.  Far from being a licence it isn't even a defence.

 

Final interesting point eve with a defence it is still illegal to Sell, Import or Manufacture RIF's.  We are all braing the law. we simply have been granted a defence from prosecution.  Two facts about this are scary. it has never been tried ncourt so until it is, who knows what could actually happen.  Second worry is the Home Seretary can at any point without giving a reason or an act of parliment revoke that defence.  That is why we all have to be very carefull what we do.  On major incident like boyo on the roof or the lads n the field and airsoft could be gone.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

"Also, there's no age limit on the defence for modification.  A 13 year old can be gifted an IF and modify it into a RIF for airsoft use."

Er, no thats manufacturing a RIF Illegal, you need a defence to do it.  13 or 31 doesn't matter, it is illegal.

 

I didn't say that it wasn't.  I said that there's no age limit on the defence, which there isn't.

 

OP has a defence for modification (not manufacture, "he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm"): he would be doing it for airsoft use.

 

13 or 31 doesn't matter, the defence applies, if it applies.

 

Bun fight on that below.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

 

 

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

3. Get a two Tone.

 

Looks like he's already got IFs or RIFs, he just wants more.  I'm sure we can understand that.  

 

 

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

4. Talk to site shop see if they will sell you one, but they store it at the site for you.

 

This has always puzzled me, as the offence is committed at the point of sale.  Possession is neither here nor there, and there's no defence for selling to anyone under 18.

 

Pragmatically, it makes sense, and you could phrase it as a rental scheme with a full deposit up front. But strictly speaking once "sold" it's no longer the site's concern what happens to it as their defence would be based on their adducible knowledge and belief only at the point of sale.

 

 

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

They are the immediate options  In the longer term you get a two tone

 

I reckon he already has one, if not a RIF.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

At this point as a skirmisher you have a defence

 

The defence is "for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities", where "permitted activities" means "airsoft skirmishing", and site membership is one of the suggested ways to adduce a defence.

 

Site membership is not, however, part of either the 2006 Act or the 2007 amending Regulations.

 

If OP has played at least 3 times over at least 8 weeks, then he's already demonstrated his behaviour and likely future intent to exactly the same degree as any other airsofter, membership or not.

 

And even that's only suggestive. Membership is likely to be sufficient (but not necessarily so), but it may not be strictly necessary.

 

I'd note that the "for the purposes of" speaks to future intent, not past behaviour. And I'd argue that having further days boked shows more intent than (for example) playing three times, getting membership, then not playing for 11 1/2 months, and buying an armoury without any further bookings just as your membership is about to expire.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, BigAl said:

Final interesting point eve with a defence it is still illegal to Sell, Import or Manufacture RIF's.  We are all braing the law. we simply have been granted a defence from prosecution.  Two facts about this are scary. it has never been tried ncourt so until it is, who knows what could actually happen.  Second worry is the Home Seretary can at any point without giving a reason or an act of parliment revoke that defence.  That is why we all have to be very carefull what we do.  On major incident like boyo on the roof or the lads n the field and airsoft could be gone.

 

Agreed, and I'd say that it's even worse. The Home Secretary never put his name to the airsoft "permitted activity" by writing it into the Regulations proper. All we've got is a Home Office circular by one "Sam Hardy" a low level drone from Sector 7-G.

 

And the bit that really bothers me is that while Border Farce / Customs choose to consider a defence as though it were a licence to import, it's not one.  Since pretty much every airsoft toy is imported, some minor apparatchik could pull the plug on the whole thing tomorrow without even requiring Ministerial involvement, let alone primary legislation.

 

Which is why for all that I'm arguing that OP could probably adduce a defence for modification, or maybe find a wizard wheeze to be sold a RIF, I'm not encouraging it.

 

The reality is that we can't stop kids getting their hands on bbGunz4Less orange horrors plus a can of Poundland black paint.

 

I'd just really rather that they not put temptation in their closets.

 

[Halo]

There are other defences other than UKARA that aren’t as highly recognised so getting a shop to accept is tricky.

 

But in this case the dad should be going out there with him, there nothing stopping them buying guns used either is there until the 2 months/3x games is up?  What a great excuse for a dad to be able to get out there and play toy solider for a few hours great bonding opportunities

 

Roger might sound like he’s being a stickler above but he’s right…..even 18 yr olds with UKARA have a high % chance of being a nob trying to show off to his mates outside unfortunately, can’t imagine what younger lads would be like, I’ve no doubt the OP has his head on his shoulders but plenty won’t be 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Halo

[Rogerborg]

10 minutes ago, Halo said:

There are other defences other than UKARA that aren’t as highly recognised so getting a shop to accept is tricky

 

There are also several retailers that will sell anything to anyone, either with a £20 premium, or just in return for a box tick.

 

It's really not a case of whether OP can get his hands on RIFs, more about whether it's a good idea.