Bad Publicity?

[Cyberlawyer]

42 minutes ago, Impulse said:

Stop buying until sites re-open and we can keep playing. Achieve enlightenment and temper an iron will!

If we all take this approach then there won’t be any airsoft retailers left once lockdown is over. I justify my needless spending on the basis I am helping the hobby survive one of its darkest hours.

 

we all need to do our bit and keep buying random shit we don’t need....

[colinjallen]

13 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

Hes a well known tool in the WW2 scene almost as equal as KM.  Once was in prison for armed robbery in Japan.  Yes, seriously.

At the site I marshalled at, he used to turn up in SS gear with his lad (half Japanese) dressed as a member of the Hitler Youth, which was pretty weird.  His Japanese wife/partner would spend all day sitting in the safe zone not talking to the mostly female staff who were there.

Someone else told me that he had been in prison in Japan.

[GenuineGerman]

10 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

Read up on the Private Sale Exemption, sometimes called the Gunshow Loophole.

For private sales, any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the same state as long as they do not know or do not have reasonable cause to believe the purchaser is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under federal law.

What you think and the facts are two entirely different things.

 

You cannot stop the lunatics; what you can do is make it more difficult for them to kill people; preventing then owning a gun does that pretty effectively.

Think you forgot this

 

Twenty-two states and the District of Columbia have laws that require background checks for some or all private sales, including sales at gun shows. In some of these states, such non-commercial sales must be done through a federally licensed dealer, who performs the background check and records the sale. In other states, gun buyers must first obtain a license from the state, which performs a background check before issuing the license.

 

I said I wasn’t going to say anymore but clearly what I think and the facts to tie however I will concede there are exceptions. However I think my point is still being missed by some. Licensing is a good thing however there comes a point the hurdles become too much, this is as much the case for firearms as well as a lot of other laws in the country that curtail your ability to do what you want legally. 
 

At the moment this country is sleep walking into becoming East Germany and you won’t be able to fart without someone reporting you. People who want to break laws will always find a way so let’s not criminalise law abiding citizens 

[Impulse]

20 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

use your tempered patience to go for an f2, you can thank me later

 

That's the plan. Expensive, but it just seems to be the best!

 

  

13 minutes ago, Cyberlawyer said:

If we all take this approach then there won’t be any airsoft retailers left once lockdown is over. I justify my needless spending on the basis I am helping the hobby survive one of its darkest hours.

 

we all need to do our bit and keep buying random shit we don’t need....

 

I've more than done my part in 2020; I bought so much stuff. Plus, I buy basically everything through my local site nowadays

[Stratton Oakmont]

14 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

At the site I marshalled at, he used to turn up in SS gear with his lad (half Japanese) dressed as a member of the Hitler Youth, which was pretty weird.  His Japanese wife/partner would spend all day sitting in the safe zone not talking to the mostly female staff who were there.

Someone else told me that he had been in prison in Japan.

I hate Illinois Nazis 

[colinjallen]

4 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

Think you forgot this

 

Twenty-two states and the District of Columbia have laws that require background checks for some or all private sales, including sales at gun shows. In some of these states, such non-commercial sales must be done through a federally licensed dealer, who performs the background check and records the sale. In other states, gun buyers must first obtain a license from the state, which performs a background check before issuing the license.

 

I said I wasn’t going to say anymore but clearly what I think and the facts to tie however I will concede there are exceptions. However I think my point is still being missed by some. Licensing is a good thing however there comes a point the hurdles become too much, this is as much the case for firearms as well as a lot of other laws in the country that curtail your ability to do what you want legally. 
 

At the moment this country is sleep walking into becoming East Germany and you won’t be able to fart without someone reporting you. People who want to break laws will always find a way so let’s not criminalise law abiding citizens 

13 states and DC require checks for all private gun purchases and two require them for handgun purchases only.

Three states require state issued firearm permits for all private gun purchases and four require them for private handgun purchases.

Therefore, a minority of states require some form of check or permit for private gun purchases.

The huge gaping hole in Federal law is plugged by local rules; the exceptions are the states that do require some checks, not those who do not.

One basic question: outside of certain extremely limited situations, why does anyone in the UK need to own a firearm?

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have carried firearms, have had them fired at me and have fired them at other human beings.  That is why I like strict gun control laws.

[GenuineGerman]

11 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

13 states and DC require checks for all private gun purchases and two require them for handgun purchases only.

Three states require state issued firearm permits for all private gun purchases and four require them for private handgun purchases.

Therefore, a minority of states require some form of check or permit for private gun purchases.

The huge gaping hole in Federal law is plugged by local rules; the exceptions are the states that do require some checks, not those who do not.

One basic question: outside of certain extremely limited situations, why does anyone in the UK need to own a firearm?

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have carried firearms, have had them fired at me and have fired them at other human beings.  That is why I like strict gun control laws.

Why shouldn’t people in the UK hold firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances. Would you also stop people smoking and drinking as this is harmful for health and costs the country a lot of money each year? 
 

I also have carried firearms and been on a 2 way range and found having them a great equaliser. That’s why I advocate people being allowed to legally bear firearms. Granted I would like to see a system different to the US however people have the fundamental right to self defence if they require. Be that against criminals or a criminal state. (I’m not saying the UK government are criminals). 
 

My memories are of a criminal state with that guns pointed inwards and people would get shot just for wanting to cross a border. 

[Adolf Hamster]

50 minutes ago, Cyberlawyer said:

If we all take this approach then there won’t be any airsoft retailers left once lockdown is over. I justify my needless spending on the basis I am helping the hobby survive one of its darkest hours.

 

we all need to do our bit and keep buying random shit we don’t need....

 

that is definately a way of looking at it.

 

my spending hasnt stopped entirely but it's definately at a lower than usual level.

 

38 minutes ago, Impulse said:

That's the plan. Expensive, but it just seems to be the best!

 

it is pricey, but imo it's only marginally less performance than a fusion engine (mainly in the realms of rate of fire) but makes up for it with a lot of ease of use and versatility.

 

certainly for any kind of accuracy build it would be my main choice.

[colinjallen]

43 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

Why shouldn’t people in the UK hold firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances. Would you also stop people smoking and drinking as this is harmful for health and costs the country a lot of money each year? 
 

I also have carried firearms and been on a 2 way range and found having them a great equaliser. That’s why I advocate people being allowed to legally bear firearms. Granted I would like to see a system different to the US however people have the fundamental right to self defence if they require. Be that against criminals or a criminal state. (I’m not saying the UK government are criminals). 
 

My memories are of a criminal state with that guns pointed inwards and people would get shot just for wanting to cross a border. 

People in the UK can own firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances.  The problem with what you suggest is that it would lead to a lot more guns in circulation, which means lots more opportunities for criminals to obtain guns and, in true American style, more people shooting each other.  If people are going to have guns for self defence, those guns are not going to be safely locked away as they are now, so they are much more vulnerable to theft or "borrowing" by disturbed teenagers who decide that killing their classmates is the best way of dealing with their own inadequacy.

 

Perhaps you can explain why, outside of certain extremely limited situations, anyone in the UK needs to own a firearm?

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by colinjallen

[Spartan09]

2 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

Why shouldn’t people in the UK hold firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances. Would you also stop people smoking and drinking as this is harmful for health and costs the country a lot of money each year? 

im going to thro my two cents out there...

personally i agree that people in the UK should be allowed to own any kind of firearm they wish  AS LONG AS THEY PASS THE RELEVANT CHECKS AND BALANCES

my personal opinion is that being able to use a real steel firearm for target shooting is a fine sport that can help people relax and forget about the stresses of their working week...   its just you, the sights and the target,  the rest of the world falls away in the background.  this is the reason i own an air rifle and would regularly go to a range (before this damned virus) but i just wish that i could shoot real guns over greater, more challenging distances where windage and gravity etc come into play. 

i also feel that being able to use real steel guns will help with the preservation of old classics, as well as educating people more about firearms.  more education about firearms will then have the benefit of limiting misinformation feeding the knee-jerk "cancel all scary things" crowd.

now, i can also see the call for gun restriction to make it harder for criminals to use them...   but as has already been stated before, if someone really wants to break the law, then they will find a way and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop them,  so why criminalise average, law abiding citizens just because one or two nutters MIGHT use a gun to commit a crime.  i also dont think that we should let just anyone walk in to a gun shop and buy a machine gun immediately, however i do believe that those who have a number of years with clean records should be allowed to be able to earn the right to own such guns.

im NOT suggesting we become as liberal as america and allow just anyone to buy a gun on a whim,  but rather we keep the system of checks and balances that are already in place, just allowing law abiding gun owners the ability to own a greater range of firearms. and also keep in place the law that ALL gun sales must be brokered through an approved gun shop who will handle background checks and the transfer pa  for example, a collector of ww2 guns can currently own bolt action rifles like the lee enfield,  but cannot own an m1 garand... 

 i also think that restrictions that are currently in place should also be extended.  for example, current laws state that with the appropriate category of firearms licence and passing the right background checks and balances, we can own pistols (proper pistol, not a carbine-ised version with the coathanger stock and welded on smoothbore barrel)   BUT  the pistol has to be stored in the gun safe of an approved pistol range or section 5 firearms licence holder, so you ONLY have access to it on the range...   now if someone wants to own, lets say a browning M2, then they should be allowed to do so, BUT it, or the critical parts that make it work, MUST be kept under supervision of a section 5 approved person or facility to limit access to it, and thus the chance for it to be used for criminal acts.

all the above examples are simplified versions, due to the extreme complexity of firearms laws here in the UK,  but with that level of gun control in place,  i argue that a greater range of firearms should be made available to law abiding citizens, again, AS LONG AS THE APPROPRIATE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE PASSED 

1 hour ago, Cyberlawyer said:

If we all take this approach then there won’t be any airsoft retailers left once lockdown is over. I justify my needless spending on the basis I am helping the hobby survive one of its darkest hours.

 

we all need to do our bit and keep buying random shit we don’t need....

agreed.   times are hard enough for retailers in general,  not just airsoft ones...    if everyone suddenly stops spending full stop, then it wont be just our favourite sport and suppliers at risk of going broke and disappearing.

and just like @Adolf Hamster my spending hasnt stopped,  but it has been significantly cut back

[GenuineGerman]

4 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

People in the UK can own firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances.  The problem with what you suggest is that it would lead to a lot more guns in circulation, which means lots more opportunities for criminals to obtain guns and, in true American style, more people shooting each other.  If people are going to have guns for self defence, those guns are not going to be safely locked away as they are now, so they are much more vulnerable to theft or "borrowing" by disturbed teenagers who decide that killing their classmates is the best way of dealing with their own inadequacy.

 

I understand your view and and see that there will sadly always be tragic incidents regardless off what checks and balances you have in place. I do contest however your view of the public as you automatically presume that people will just start buying guns and shooting each other. I do think that the majority of public would be sensible and when we are talking about the USA we have a large population of 320+ million people with a lot of guns in circulation. I wonder if you could compare the amount of lives saved by a good guy armed in comparison to death caused by lunatics/criminals, I doubt this is quantifiable. 
 

The only way to stop any gun deaths is to ban everyone from having guns including law enforcement/military again this is impossible to do. 
 

The needs to be a happy medium where firearms are controlled and citizens can carry/used firearms responsibly and legally with in my opinion isn’t the case in the UK currently. 
 

The argument I feel some make is don’t let anyone have any firearms and the problem goes away which is again in my opinion a dangerous infringement of personal freedoms. This will only lead on to the banning of rifs this airsoft dies and goes on throughout society until we all live in an Orwellian utopia.  
 

11 minutes ago, Spartan09 said:

im going to thro my two cents out there...

personally i agree that people in the UK should be allowed to own any kind of firearm they wish  AS LONG AS THEY PASS THE RELEVANT CHECKS AND BALANCES

my personal opinion is that being able to use a real steel firearm for target shooting is a fine sport that can help people relax and forget about the stresses of their working week...   its just you, the sights and the target,  the rest of the world falls away in the background.  this is the reason i own an air rifle and would regularly go to a range (before this damned virus) but i just wish that i could shoot real guns over greater, more challenging distances where windage and gravity etc come into play. 

i also feel that being able to use real steel guns will help with the preservation of old classics, as well as educating people more about firearms.  more education about firearms will then have the benefit of limiting misinformation feeding the knee-jerk "cancel all scary things" crowd.

now, i can also see the call for gun restriction to make it harder for criminals to use them...   but as has already been stated before, if someone really wants to break the law, then they will find a way and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop them,  so why criminalise average, law abiding citizens just because one or two nutters MIGHT use a gun to commit a crime.  i also dont think that we should let just anyone walk in to a gun shop and buy a machine gun immediately, however i do believe that those who have a number of years with clean records should be allowed to be able to earn the right to own such guns.

im NOT suggesting we become as liberal as america and allow just anyone to buy a gun on a whim,  but rather we keep the system of checks and balances that are already in place, just allowing law abiding gun owners the ability to own a greater range of firearms. and also keep in place the law that ALL gun sales must be brokered through an approved gun shop who will handle background checks and the transfer pa  for example, a collector of ww2 guns can currently own bolt action rifles like the lee enfield,  but cannot own an m1 garand... 

 i also think that restrictions that are currently in place should also be extended.  for example, current laws state that with the appropriate category of firearms licence and passing the right background checks and balances, we can own pistols (proper pistol, not a carbine-ised version with the coathanger stock and welded on smoothbore barrel)   BUT  the pistol has to be stored in the gun safe of an approved pistol range or section 5 firearms licence holder, so you ONLY have access to it on the range...   now if someone wants to own, lets say a browning M2, then they should be allowed to do so, BUT it, or the critical parts that make it work, MUST be kept under supervision of a section 5 approved person or facility to limit access to it, and thus the chance for it to be used for criminal acts.

all the above examples are simplified versions, due to the extreme complexity of firearms laws here in the UK,  but with that level of gun control in place,  i argue that a greater range of firearms should be made available to law abiding citizens, again, AS LONG AS THE APPROPRIATE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE PASSED 

Agree with this completely 

[Druid799]

2 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

 

Hahaha, we've reached a terrifying time with this hobby buying shit has become the actual hobby in lieu of being able to play (I imagine this is nothing new for some). Suffice to say I have bought copious amounts of crap I have no use for at this point in time, but my UKARA is good till June. The advice to wait was based purely on the fact he's not convinced his defence sees his items arriving with him. The last person on Earth to take financial advice from is an airsofter... swiftly followed by someone that plays tabletop miniatures games.

 

But yeah, buy whatever the hell you want if it makes you momentarily happy and you can afford to do so. Any additional risk you take for being impatient... well that's on you. Much like folks that moan about hang overs, you've done it to yourself bud, I have zero sympathy.

Totally agree with you bud 100% , BUT can also confess I’ve bought and sold more high-ends items (AEG’s , real kit , labeled items etc)The past year than any other year and I’ve been playing for over 20 !🤦‍♂️😂😂

My self and my team mates normally play once a mth due to work and every year go to the NAF down at ground zero (game play’s shit but I go for the social side and the crac with my mates) and this past year has REALLY shown me just how much I rely on it to decompress as do my team mates , my self and a couple of the others have quite high stress jobs and another has poor health so it’s his only escape from daily life . Looking back on it a lot of my purchases have been ‘projects’ , guns I wanted to change to a different model , kit I wanted to tailor or alter for a specific role/job things like that so makes me think am I doing this to keep involved with the sport as much as I can ? The amount of guns and kit I already had I certainly didn’t ‘need’ too buy any more ! Does get you thinking🤔👍

 

 

2 hours ago, Cyberlawyer said:

If we all take this approach then there won’t be any airsoft retailers left once lockdown is over. I justify my needless spending on the basis I am helping the hobby survive one of its darkest hours.

 

we all need to do our bit and keep buying random shit we don’t need....

You are my hero ! To selflessly keep buying shit you don’t need just to keep these little business going you truly are a shining light in these dark days ! Actually you know what ? Your not just my hero , no your my FECKING hero ! 🦸‍♂️
🤣🤣🤣 my kind of player .👍

[DRay]

47 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

I understand your view and and see that there will sadly always be tragic incidents regardless off what checks and balances you have in place. I do contest however your view of the public as you automatically presume that people will just start buying guns and shooting each other. I do think that the majority of public would be sensible and when we are talking about the USA we have a large population of 320+ million people with a lot of guns in circulation. I wonder if you could compare the amount of lives saved by a good guy armed in comparison to death caused by lunatics/criminals, I doubt this is quantifiable. 
 

The only way to stop any gun deaths is to ban everyone from having guns including law enforcement/military again this is impossible to do. 
 

The needs to be a happy medium where firearms are controlled and citizens can carry/used firearms responsibly and legally with in my opinion isn’t the case in the UK currently. 
 

The argument I feel some make is don’t let anyone have any firearms and the problem goes away which is again in my opinion a dangerous infringement of personal freedoms. This will only lead on to the banning of rifs this airsoft dies and goes on throughout society until we all live in an Orwellian utopia.  
 

Agree with this completely 

Checks and balances aside, what do you want a firearm for? 
 

They have no utility for an average person, at all. If you want to play soldiers and assault buildings and do room clearances you can buy a RIF. They look cool, feel cool and no one gets hurt with them. 
 

If you want to shoot targets and properly practice the principles of marksmanship then anything you can achieve with an SA80 you can achieve with a high end .22 air rifle (and a .22 will be a hell of a lot more accurate). Equally useful for pest control etc. 
 

If you want to shoot animals you can get a shotgun license very very easily if you are so inclined. 
 

There is no reason to own, or want to use, a 9mm or semi automatic rifle save for in a professional capacity. And I can tell you that if you are signing out a 5.56 it is for one reason only and that is to potentially take the life of another man. 
 

Therefore the only reason I can arrive at for someone wanting an AR15 is one of the following, and none of which are good enough reasons to give something that dangerous to a normal member of the public;

 

- I just want one (I want to take my knob out in the park, it doesn’t mean I can)

- Target shooting (see above under .22 air rifle for alternatives)

- The government are coming for me (psycho who definitely shouldn’t be armed) 

- To defend myself from other people with guns (not a requirement because no one has them) 

[Stratton Oakmont]

19 minutes ago, DRay said:

Checks and balances aside, what do you want a firearm for? 
 

They have no utility for an average person, at all. If you want to play soldiers and assault buildings and do room clearances you can buy a RIF. They look cool, feel cool and no one gets hurt with them. 
 

If you want to shoot targets and properly practice the principles of marksmanship then anything you can achieve with an SA80 you can achieve with a high end .22 air rifle (and a .22 will be a hell of a lot more accurate). Equally useful for pest control etc. 
 

If you want to shoot animals you can get a shotgun license very very easily if you are so inclined. 
 

There is no reason to own, or want to use, a 9mm or semi automatic rifle save for in a professional capacity. And I can tell you that if you are signing out a 5.56 it is for one reason only and that is to potentially take the life of another man. 
 

Therefore the only reason I can arrive at for someone wanting an AR15 is one of the following, and none of which are good enough reasons to give something that dangerous to a normal member of the public;

 

- I just want one (I want to take my knob out in the park, it doesn’t mean I can)

- Target shooting (see above under .22 air rifle for alternatives)

- The government are coming for me (psycho who definitely shouldn’t be armed) 

- To defend myself from other people with guns (not a requirement because no one has them) 

IPSC competition shooting,

plus and this is me being a pedant, you want a .177 for target

[GenuineGerman]

31 minutes ago, DRay said:

Checks and balances aside, what do you want a firearm for? 
 

They have no utility for an average person, at all. If you want to play soldiers and assault buildings and do room clearances you can buy a RIF. They look cool, feel cool and no one gets hurt with them. 
 

If you want to shoot targets and properly practice the principles of marksmanship then anything you can achieve with an SA80 you can achieve with a high end .22 air rifle (and a .22 will be a hell of a lot more accurate). Equally useful for pest control etc. 
 

If you want to shoot animals you can get a shotgun license very very easily if you are so inclined. 
 

There is no reason to own, or want to use, a 9mm or semi automatic rifle save for in a professional capacity. And I can tell you that if you are signing out a 5.56 it is for one reason only and that is to potentially take the life of another man. 
 

Therefore the only reason I can arrive at for someone wanting an AR15 is one of the following, and none of which are good enough reasons to give something that dangerous to a normal member of the public;

 

- I just want one (I want to take my knob out in the park, it doesn’t mean I can)

- Target shooting (see above under .22 air rifle for alternatives)

- The government are coming for me (psycho who definitely shouldn’t be armed) 

- To defend myself from other people with guns (not a requirement because no one has them) 

I completely agree with you most people don’t need a military grade rifle and shouldn’t be able to have one with out the best justification in the world. 
 

Some people in the country own rifles capable of firing 5.56/7.62 plus a host of over calibers. Would you say they are only out to kill people? Or do they enjoy shooting and is that a crime? 
 

Maybe I want a handgun to defend myself from people with knives? (Hypothetically) 

 

You have asked why I want a firearm. For me it is the enjoyment of shooting and I do understand why you would want justification for wanting to own a firearm but again if I pass all the checks and balances, am of sound mind and don’t have any history that may make me dangerous then I’m sorry there should be no reason to not get any firearm I choose. 
 

I have used the firearms as proxy Argument to highlight the erosion of freedom and as I have continuously stated the more we regulate the less freedom we have. 
 

firearms is an easy initial target to ban then it moves to putting all rifs to 1J or under then it’s a complete ban for rifs and we have to use boxed shaped pew pews until it is completely banned because plastic bbs can blind someone. 
 

If you had to justify to the police the reason why you wanted to airsoft and had to £100 for a license and then have them come round to check they are being stored correctly would you still airsoft? And they might say no mate when you was 15 you stole a mars bar from the corner shop and got a caution so you can’t because you are a risk to the public. Would you feel that’s fair? 
 

Politicos will jump on the ban wagon because it will get score them points on elections to portray a sport where people can’t even agree themselves on the rules as numpties who can’t be trusted. 
 

This is my real worry, we need unity in airsoft, we need to be decent to each other, listen to other view points and keep self regulation that is the only way in 5 years time we haven’t got £1000’s worth of kit that we can’t use and great memories of the good old days. 

[kasaran]

@GenuineGerman by your wording im guessing your american? Saying we?  And east german referencing suggests some heritage.  

 

The thing is in this country, we are not brought up with much of a gun culture.  We also dont have a history of being invaded or occupied by foreign elements.  As a result people generally dont associate freedom with owning a gun for home defence purposes. Also, there tends not be be quite so much paranoia in my experience towards the gov (just incompetence). 

 

I find it odd how many Americans are all 'we are the best country and shit' and yet have no faith in their systems of governance.  

 

And sure there is more people over in the states... but i find it kind of nice that after a mass school shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre  rules were tightened to prevent that happening again.  That was 1996...  i cannot think of another school shooting happening in the uk since.  Now. I would put the numbers of shootings during that time state side into the high 100s. And the death toll being much higher.  Australia i believe did the exact same thing and i would bet mass shootings also pretty much stopped afterwards.

 

But gun controls were already being tightened before that point courtesy of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre  this guy passed all checks and balances.  All his guns were legally owned...  hell. He killed one of the parents of the policeman who issued the licences i believe.

 

And dont give the 'good guy with a gun' crap.  Just like buses and police there would never be one in the area at the right time to help.  And chances are they might do more harm than good id rekon.

 

Its sad that things like this exist.

 

Perhaps other countries prioritise their kids not getting shot over their ability to own guns.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Shows my point. Most are in northen ireland mind... but notice the frequency dropping immediately after the 90s.

 

Yet for 2019 there were 434 mass shootings... where were good guys with guns for those 517 people?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

 

I dont get freedom=the ability to kill easily. 

 

It goes back to who would you rather be attacked by? A gun man or knife man.  I know who i would choose

[MiK]

20 minutes ago, kasaran said:

It goes back to who would you rather be attacked by? A gun man or knife man.  I know who i would choose

I would rather a gun man, in the real world most can’t shoot for shit (it ain’t as easy as the TV/Movies), so I would rather take my chances with a shooter, a knifeman would scare the shite outa me.

As a knife attacker has to get within stabbing distance to kill and there’s more knife about than guns in England/Wales

England/Wales stats for 2019/2020

33 deaths and 9700 gun related offences

262 deaths and 47349 knife related offences

[GenuineGerman]

3 minutes ago, kasaran said:

@GenuineGerman by your wording im guessing your american? Saying we?  And east german referencing suggests some heritage.  

 

The thing is in this country, we are not brought up with much of a gun culture.  We also dont have a history of being invaded or occupied by foreign elements.  As a result people generally dont associate freedom with owning a gun for home defence purposes. Also, there tends not be be quite so much paranoia in my experience towards the gov (just incompetence). 

 

I find it odd how many Americans are all 'we are the best country and shit' and yet have no faith in their systems of governance.  

 

And sure there is more people over in the states... but i find it kind of nice that after a mass school shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre  rules were tightened to prevent that happening again.  That was 1996...  i cannot think of another school shooting happening in the uk since.  Now. I would put the numbers of shootings during that time state side into the high 100s. And the death toll being much higher.  Australia i believe did the exact same thing and i would bet mass shootings also pretty much stopped afterwards.

 

But gun controls were already being tightened before that point courtesy of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre  this guy passed all checks and balances.  All his guns were legally owned...  hell. He killed one of the parents of the policeman who issued the licences i believe.

 

And dont give the 'good guy with a gun' crap.  Just like buses and police there would never be one in the area at the right time to help.  And chances are they might do more harm than good id rekon.

 

Its sad that things like this exist.

 

Perhaps other countries prioritise their kids not getting shot over their ability to own guns.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Shows my point. Most are in northen ireland mind... but notice the frequency dropping immediately after the 90s.

 

Yet for 2019 there were 434 mass shootings... where were good guys with guns for those 517 people?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

I’m German but live in the UK with family spread in the USA and Germany. East German means I remember my mother’s show trial for wanting to go to West Germany. 
 

as you can imagine with the respective countries histories you have to be careful. I just want to state in no way do I condone these massacres and every life lost is a tragic. 
 

i do understand your reasoning with regards to gun culture being different in the UK to the US and also people’s view on the government. 
 

i would say I don’t believe that good guy with a gun is crap but then as you have stated the UK doesn’t have guns engrained in its culture as much so you are far less likely to have someone committing a massacre using a gun. Especially since the aforementioned shooting in the UK and the tighter controls since then. Aha you say he contradicts himself however like I stated I don’t think you quantify the good guy with a gun argument. 
 

what I would say is where there is strict gun control in the US has this stopped gun violence? 
 

I think to be fair comparing the UK to the US is probably unfair for the very reason you have said. 
 

Education is most important in all of this. Again I’m using this as an argument for regulation and how this can adversely affect us. 

[alxndrhll]

This threads taken a real journey eh?

[DRay]

@GenuineGerman what are the gun ownership laws in the united Germany? 
 

I think that Germans by and large get most things right most of the time and have pretty sensible laws about most things like autobahns; drive as quick as you like/is safe but if you act like a prick we will throw the fucking book at you. 

Just now, alxndrhll said:

This threads taken a real journey eh?

It has, probably worthy of a thread of its own! It’s very interesting though because gun ownership is such a polarising issue and actually as a community of RIF owners who probably have more idea about weapon safety/personal accountability than most people (certainly MPs and the ‘ban everything’ crowd!) its fascinating to get other people’s take on something which to my mind is very black and white. 

[GenuineGerman]

1 minute ago, DRay said:

@GenuineGerman what are the gun ownership laws in the united Germany? 
 

I think that Germans by and large get most things right most of the time and have pretty sensible laws about most things like autobahns; drive as quick as you like/is safe but if you act like a prick we will throw the fucking book at you. 

Pretty strict to be honest I wouldn’t say too far off what the UK is however there are exemptions for historical firearms, hunting and competition shooting. But you can’t have full autos,  assault rifles or high capacity mags really 

4 minutes ago, DRay said:

It has, probably worthy of a thread of its own! It’s very interesting though because gun ownership is such a polarising issue and actually as a community of RIF owners who probably have more idea about weapon safety/personal accountability than most people (certainly MPs and the ‘ban everything’ crowd!) its fascinating to get other people’s take on something which to my mind is very black and white. 

Totally agree with this

[MiK]

7 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

This threads taken a real journey eh?

 

yea we got bored talking about failbook groups

[kasaran]

28 minutes ago, MiK said:

I would rather a gun man, in the real world most can’t shoot for shit (it ain’t as easy as the TV/Movies), so I would rather take my chances with a shooter, a knifeman would scare the shite outa me.

As a knife attacker has to get within stabbing distance to kill and there’s more knife about than guns in England/Wales

England/Wales stats for 2019/2020

33 deaths and 9700 gun related offences

262 deaths and 47349 knife related offences

 

So the percentage of gun deaths out of recorded offences 0.34% that is how many result in one loss of life

 

Knife deaths account of 0.55% or knife related offences.    

 

and by those stats you are 4.88 times more likely to be victim of a knife crime. Makes sense when you consider availability. 

 

But with the gun offences being so much fewer, it is only slightly less likely to be fatal (0.21%).

 

Shows how much more effective guns are at killing people.  But then that is their only purpose.  

 

Your using  the logic that you feel the gun man is going to miss.  Is that something you want to bet your life on? 

 

Personally as i said previously.  You have a chance to out run or fight back with a knife man.  And for practicl purposes.  Its only the people with a meter of the knife man at risk.  Not everyone within 50 metres etc  thats just my view on it.  See my earlier reference to the isis knife attacks in london a couple years back.

[Stratton Oakmont]

I’m pretty sure the majority of gun deaths in the UK are farmers committing suicide with a shotgun.

But that’s going from memory from some stats a couple of years ago.

whilst tragic it does not feed into the “gun deaths” headline that the media would run it as

 

[GenuineGerman]

I just want to add that respect to all in this debate. I personally think everyone has been very reasoned and passionate in what they say which I great although this really is its own thread.