Taiwangun Shipping Disruption (Brexit Related Content)

[BigStew]

32 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Well, either you got very lucky and dodged another £100+ in VAT and fees, or they've started paying that at the source - or marking the shipment as VAT paid, which is the same thing as far as HMRC is concerned.

 

Are there any clues on the invoice or (if you still have it) the shipping label?

 

If they've really started paying UK VAT at source, then that's great news, it's game on again.

Just got a phone call from UPS asking to fill in firearms declaration. We shall see what happens now. My UKARA is in date and was plastered on the out side of the box.

[EvilMonkee]

I wouldn't bother.  You have your toys, they can fuck off frankly.  Same if they ask for extra money.  Sorry chum you had your chance.  Further evidence of UPS inability to organise a work event in their own back garden....

[BigStew]

18 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

I wouldn't bother.  You have your toys, they can fuck off frankly.  Same if they ask for extra money.  Sorry chum you had your chance.  Further evidence of UPS inability to organise a work event in their own back garden....

Its more if they get shitty and send the police around between me and my flat mate we have an arsenal and can't prove where most of it came from as in pre vcra purchases.

[EvilMonkee]

4 hours ago, BigStew said:

Its more if they get shitty and send the police around between me and my flat mate we have an arsenal and can't prove where most of it came from as in pre vcra purchases.

Firstly, I really doubt they would do that.  Secondly, its not an offence to possess a RIF nor do you need to prove you are an airsofter.  The offence is to buy one without a defence, which as we all know doesn't necessarily automatically mean UKARA, its just the most used method.  Thirdly, (and being an ex cop myself) I can assure you that the Police have a lot better things to do than respond to a call like that.

Edited January 18, 2022 by EvilMonkee

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

Firstly, I really doubt they would do that.  Secondly, its not an offence to possess a RIF nor do you need to prove you are an airsofter.  The offence is to buy one without a defence, which as we all know doesn't necessarily automatically mean UKARA, its just the most used method.  Thirdly, (and being an ex cop myself) I can assure you that the Police have a lot better things to do than respond to a call like that.

There is the offence of importing a RIF, but they should have handled the documentation on that while it was held

 

In this case there is no VCRA offence as  UKARA details had been shown.

But a declaration should have been handled before releasing:

 

No - it does not contain a firearm 

Yes - it does contain a RIF

Yes - a valid defence is held 

[EvilMonkee]

3 hours ago, Tommikka said:

There is the offence of importing a RIF, but they should have handled the documentation on that while it was held

 

In this case there is no VCRA offence as  UKARA details had been shown.

But a declaration should have been handled before releasing:

 

No - it does not contain a firearm 

Yes - it does contain a RIF

Yes - a valid defence is held 

Import/buy - same thing. But basically tell them to fuck off

[Tommikka]

6 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

Import/buy - same thing. But basically tell them to fuck off

Import / buy are pretty much the same thing, but as you’ve noted yourself as ex police import/buy are different things under the VCRA legislation 

 

For RIFs without a defence :

Import = offence 

Buy = not an offence 

Sell = offence

[Rogerborg]

18 hours ago, BigStew said:

Its more if they get shitty and send the police around between me and my flat mate we have an arsenal and can't prove where most of it came from as in pre vcra purchases.

 

If push does come to shove, it's for the State to prove that you committed an offence by importation, manufacture or modification, not for you to disprove it.  Only after they've made their case would you need to provide a defence.

 

I'm very much not inciting you to die on this hill, and I'd be OK with completing a brief declaration to end the matter.  Just noting that if you do get a knock on the door, you can be friendly, honest and cooperative - you're an active airsofter and can demonstrate it - but either way the less you say, the better.  I wouldn't volunteer any information about where your collection came from.

 

I'd be more concerned about the prospect of being billed for the VAT.  If HMRC come after you directly, I'd pay up, as they're a big enough gang to wring it out of you.  If UPS come after you saying that you owe it to them, I'd simply ignore them - you have no contract with them (except implicitly by performance), and agreed to no such thing.

 

Either way, thanks for keeping us posted on the latest plot twists and characters in this shit-show.

[BigStew]

48 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

If push does come to shove, it's for the State to prove that you committed an offence by importation, manufacture or modification, not for you to disprove it.  Only after they've made their case would you need to provide a defence.

 

I'm very much not inciting you to die on this hill, and I'd be OK with completing a brief declaration to end the matter.  Just noting that if you do get a knock on the door, you can be friendly, honest and cooperative - you're an active airsofter and can demonstrate it - but either way the less you say, the better.  I wouldn't volunteer any information about where your collection came from.

 

I'd be more concerned about the prospect of being billed for the VAT.  If HMRC come after you directly, I'd pay up, as they're a big enough gang to wring it out of you.  If UPS come after you saying that you owe it to them, I'd simply ignore them - you have no contract with them (except implicitly by performance), and agreed to no such thing.

 

Either way, thanks for keeping us posted on the latest plot twists and characters in this shit-show.

Former civil servant I am well aware what HMRC can do if the mood takes it.

[EvilMonkee]

4 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

If push does come to shove, it's for the State to prove that you committed an offence by importation, manufacture or modification, not for you to disprove it.  Only after they've made their case would you need to provide a defence.

 

I'm very much not inciting you to die on this hill, and I'd be OK with completing a brief declaration to end the matter.  Just noting that if you do get a knock on the door, you can be friendly, honest and cooperative - you're an active airsofter and can demonstrate it - but either way the less you say, the better.  I wouldn't volunteer any information about where your collection came from.

 

I'd be more concerned about the prospect of being billed for the VAT.  If HMRC come after you directly, I'd pay up, as they're a big enough gang to wring it out of you.  If UPS come after you saying that you owe it to them, I'd simply ignore them - you have no contract with them (except implicitly by performance), and agreed to no such thing.

 

Either way, thanks for keeping us posted on the latest plot twists and characters in this shit-show.

Agreed, never volunteer any information when speaking to the Police.  

[RebelScum]

So my final update in the Gunfire versus Taiwangun race to the UK started just before Christmas, as somewhat surprisingly UPS finally got around the releasing my Gunfire parcel from it's special shelf in their Stanford Le Hope warehouse and my parcel arrived today, although to be fair the Border Force tape did show it had been subject to an examination.

 

Conclusions?

 

Well Gunfire is the winner as TG still aren't shipping to the UK despite their email to me about test purchases.  Surprising as I would have thought the UK market to be worth chasing, although I get the distinct impression TG got their fingers burnt by UPS.  Just to keep TG on their toes I do like to fill my TG basket up with goodies whilst browsing their website, if only to let them know what I might spend if only they sorted out their delivery service.

 

Gunfire performance.  I can't fault it up to the point they hand over to UPS and then you enter somewhat of a lottery.  Total transit time was 43 days, of which 40 was the parcel languishing in a warehouse in Essex, waiting for UPS to decide if they were going to collect import duty, after which it entered a waiting area for a Customs examination.  They don't seem to have any SLA with Border Force which is bizarre given most couriered mail with other companies is cleared in hours by Border Force (DHL being my best experience).  Gunfire also made a lot of effort with plastering my UKARA number over the parcel, so no chance of a misunderstanding in this regard.  If you want to chase the parcel's status UPS Customer Services aren't much use, but Brokerage seem to be better organised and were quite helpful.  Fees and taxation were what was expected, so despite the wait I have saved money.

 

If you are prepared to wait, and you really do need to be prepared to play the long game here, Gunfire will deliver... eventually.

Edited February 1, 2022 by RebelScum

[Rogerborg]

Thanks for the update, great to hear that you got eventually and it didn't go in Border Farce's woodchipper.

 

10 hours ago, RebelScum said:

Fees and taxation were what was expected

 

Can I ask what you expect?  i.e. how much did you get mugged for on the order in total.  That's key to deciding if it's worth the wait and gamble.

 

The weird part is that it seems that  @BigStew didn't get charged anything ... yet.

 

<dramatic-gopher.gif>

[RebelScum]

13 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Can I ask what you expect?  i.e. how much did you get mugged for on the order in total.  That's key to deciding if it's worth the wait and gamble.

 

£60 on a £300 order, plus something like a £12 UPS handling fee.  So you effectively end up paying the VAT rate.  I agree for some items it's not worth it, but I definitely saved as the RIF alone was retailing in the UK for well over £400 (if it was even in stock) and I paid under £250 using discount codes.  I then padded the order out with some ridiculously bits of cheap kit.  You can never have enough Polish Woodland camo in my opinion.

 

And as you say, there is also the chance you may not pay anything and receive the parcel in 6 days, depending on the the UPS import lottery...

[Rogerborg]

Ace, thanks.  Yes, that makes sense.  Sadly, if UK retailers are now basically just importing and reselling guns from TG or GF, then they're always going to run more expensive after they've added their own running costs on.

[Tommikka]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Ace, thanks.  Yes, that makes sense.  Sadly, if UK retailers are now basically just importing and reselling guns from TG or GF, then they're always going to run more expensive after they've added their own running costs on.

Spot on - imports at trade price will help business, which is partially supposed to be the point of import tariffs. 
 

But buy & resell whilst having to up the price will just assist in harming the retailer in the long term as customers will go back to finding cheaper direct alternatives (and either succeeding or being stung)

 

In my friends shop she does sometimes buy in at retail and sell for zero profit - if she can’t get that thing on trade, when big chains are at the front of the queue, or she’s only got a couple of customers who will want it then she’s facilitating her regulars as a ‘specialist’ when mainstream retail have touched on a specific item 

[Rogerborg]

20 hours ago, Tommikka said:

In my friends shop she does sometimes buy in at retail and sell for zero profit

 

But that's not sustainable either.

 

I don't actually begrudge UK retailers having to add their costs on - especially to cover eating the cost of returns, and especially-especially given the impracticality and costs to owners of sending anything to and from Abroadland these days for warranty work.

 

However, given the propensity for retailers to give it "Ooh, our forensics lab found traces of market stall BBs, warranty void", I'd rather save every penny up front and sort issues myself. Other opinions are valid though.

[BigStew]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

But that's not sustainable either.

 

I don't actually begrudge UK retailers having to add their costs on - especially to cover eating the cost of returns, and especially-especially given the impracticality and costs to owners of sending anything to and from Abroadland these days for warranty work.

 

However, given the propensity for retailers to give it "Ooh, our forensics lab found traces of market stall BBs, warranty void", I'd rather save every penny up front and sort issues myself. Other opinions are valid though.

All supermarkets run a loss on certain products (loss leaders) to tempt people in and spend on the stuff that has a larger profit margins. Most airsoft sites will barely cover costs with green fees and will have minium numbers to break even any profit will rentals and shop sakes they have. Its risky put you can have a business model of selling your primary product at a loss/cost If you can sell high profit products in tandom.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, BigStew said:

All supermarkets run a loss on certain products (loss leaders) to tempt people in and spend on the stuff that has a larger profit margins.

 

Fair point, and well made.

 

Does that apply to airsoft retailers though?  Do they get enough repeat business to make purchasing goodwill worthwhile?

 

I honestly don't know.  Me, I have little retailer loyalty, and will price compare down to the penny - although I will check ak2m4 and Bullseye first for parts.

 

At the other extreme, there was a chap who used to go to Depot 1.0 who'd was constantly buying more and more new stuff from the local retailer, like pairs of multiple new pistols each game day. He was constantly bemoaning that his new toys were crapping out before he'd even got to use them, or died during the day, and was never happy with what he had. But back he went, again and again, because he felt he had some sort of relationship with them.

 

That's one data point each way.

[BigStew]

i have found myself come back to certain shops due to price and stock so maybe. Also most UK shops either are associated with a site or have their own site/s so i would assume relying on repeat business especially consumables (it appears to be quiet a common business model world wide for airsoft).    

[Asomodai]

I have no real customer loyalty (It's a two way street, shops that I have bought from multiple times haven't hesitated to shaft me and pass the buck if something I bought from them was broken out of the box), it's not as if one shop gets better examples of specific products over any others. Anything could be duff regardless of where I buy it from. Price is still king, though getting all the stuff I need from one shop as long as I am not getting too shafted price wise is also a consideration. I do check certain retailers first if I know they are more likely to have the bits over others (AK2M4, Bullseye and Fire Support). 

 

It's all about being a savvy shopper to maximise what I get from my funds. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Asomodai

[tinkle60]

On 18/01/2022 at 18:20, EvilMonkee said:

The offence is to buy one without a defence, which as we all know doesn't necessarily automatically mean UKARA, its just the most used method.

 

The offence is actually to sell. 

[Mintyxxx]

Just came across the tale above re: imports and tax etc. In relation to that, I just got a decent order from Powair6 in France. Arrived in 7 days, no damage on the box, unopened by customs (UKARA was on box) and haven't paid any dues or VAT right now. No invoice attached to say I owe anything either. This was Parcel Force. Very unexpected, I thought I'd be waiting weeks, but it cleared customs in a morning. 

[Tommikka]

On 04/02/2022 at 10:46, Rogerborg said:

 

But that's not sustainable either.

 

.

Her core business is in collectables/niche items, so the buy/sell at 0 is a ‘no loss, loss leader’, ensuring that she has that item for her regulars

She may also be taking those items new and holding them for when the collector market ups the price once they aren’t available 

 

Theres no intention to sustain at zero profit, but to sell her main items for profit and keep building the customer base.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

13 hours ago, Mintyxxx said:

I just got a decent order from Powair6 in France

 

Great to hear it.  Can I ask what the value was, and whether there was any indication that they'd charged you UK rather than French VAT at source, or on the package?  There's no reason that they can't do that, and they have to (or should) for values under £135 anyway.

[EvilMonkee]

16 hours ago, Mintyxxx said:

Just came across the tale above re: imports and tax etc. In relation to that, I just got a decent order from Powair6 in France. Arrived in 7 days, no damage on the box, unopened by customs (UKARA was on box) and haven't paid any dues or VAT right now. No invoice attached to say I owe anything either. This was Parcel Force. Very unexpected, I thought I'd be waiting weeks, but it cleared customs in a morning. 

All of which puts the shit show known as UPS in to sharp relief