Opinions on Running Heavy Ammo in Pistols?

[Impulse]

Hey guys. I thought I'd throw this question out there to the wider community.

 

What are your thoughts on running pistols on heavy ammo?

 

I've seen a lot of snipers running heavy ammo in their mk23s (I am also guilty of this) and was considering putting the same sort of upgrades into my p226 as I don't like how absolutely huge the mk23 is as a sidearm and I don't want to be running the cookie cutter sniper loadout, however I know some people have issues with us using heavy ammo for close(r) range engagements. From what I know already, the benefits are pretty nice for the shooter, as you can get some really nice range and accuracy on your pistol (that you end up using a lot as a sniper), but I also know that it can be painful for the person on the receiving end.

 

So... Thoughts?

[Guest]

Buy a TM FNX ( new black one out now ), 0.4’s will reach 80m standard, and 65m with a body sized grouping every time 

[Groot]

Heavier ammo in everything imo. 

If it applies to site rules, then it is down to your preference.

The people being shot at decide on their level of protection and decide their level of risk/pain. 

Unless you are playing 100% CQB where range and accuracy really doesn't matter.

Then in most cases you are going to need the range and accuracy, more than the smaller chance you might light someone up point blank. 
If you have an issue with hitting someone point blank with heavier ammo, don't run it or practice your trigger discipline and just shoot them in the most padded area.

 

I run over .28's in my PTW ( only cos i shoot so damn much its expensive to go heavier ), .32 or .4's in Sniper and Pistol

This is more a morality issue for you. Saint or Sinner ??

 

[Skara]

As long as the energy output is below the site limit, who cares about people feeling them heavy bbs a little harder than 0.2s.. (plus it's a nice incentive to ensure they call the hit)

 

I run 0.3s in all my pistols, and while the mk23 sends them into the next zip code, the TM G17 (50° decepticon + I-Key) does pretty much the same with slight less consistency due to blowback.

The AAP can't really lift them but as we speak I'm getting a 50° MR-Hop + I-Key into it.

[Rogerborg]

Apologies if this is obvious, but please do be aware that being a pistol doesn't mean that it can ignore site MEDs if it's over 1.13J or whatever the site limit is for zero-MED.  The BB doesn't care what it came out of, only the energy that it's carrying.

 

My local CQB site is taking a dim view of long suppressors on all pistols now because they're sick and tired of folk "not realising" that barrel extensions can bump the fps over 350.

[heroshark]

Obviously you'll have sites that have ammo weight limits which you'll have to adhere to anyway. Ones that don't I find it a case of (provided it's within site limit) is it useful? In my mk23 it's my long range gun. I'm taking long range shots in situations people tend to not know where it's coming from. I need that heavy bb stability and accuracy at range. My gbb I tend to use at closer ranges and the person on the receiving end, even if they are not aware of my location soon are. So if a lighter bb will be just as accurate as a heavier bb at the shorter average range you'll be using. Also the lighter bb is quicker to target. IMO there's little point in spending more on ammo when a lighter bb will perform a job more proficiently. 

[Adolf Hamster]

the biggest problem running the heavies in pistols is it can put extra back-pressure on the system and bulge the loading nozzle, over time this can cause it to burst or simply leak gas and cause cycling issues.

 

this will vary depending on the make, needless to say tm's higher quality plastics can hold up to it a bit better.

 

however there's another argument against not going too heavy, which is a case of overkill, or more correctly having a gun that can shoot further than your skill as a shooter allows.

 

these days i tend to stick to ~0.3's in the makarov for precisely this reason, i can't shoot well enough to take advantage of the range using .48's would give and it means you aren't replacing nozzles every other magazine.

[lukeB]

I tend to use whatever is in my primary to save messing about. 

 

If you are within MED then any weight is going to be accurate for that 20-25 meters.

[Wo1f]

Heavy in everything. Might cost more but if it takes one shot to hit someone instead of seven, then you’ve not really lost anything. 
 

my only complaint with airsoft (Besides those speedy wankers) is a lot of the time I can see an enemy before I can hit them, so every range advantage I can get I’ll take. 
 

BB weight also depends on barrel length too. With short barrels heavy is fine, but try getting a decent flight from a .4 and a 500mm barrel. That’s why, even DMRs I try to keep barrel length below 430mm

[Zarrin]

Another consideration is whether or not a stock hop rubber is going to hop a heavier BB - depending on the brand and model of your pistol, you may find it struggles to give a heavier BB enough spin; i've seen quite a few stock pistols from various brands protrude zero rubber/bump until you are on full hop which then only gives enough to rise a 0.2/0.25 if that is the case you may want to invest in a better hop rubber like an ML autobot. 

 

You can also sometimes remedy the above issue by taking the barrel chamber apart and examining / modding the hop arm - though a better rubber is gonna give you better groupings and range tbh.

 

 

[Davegolf]

Flight time / time-to-target is also a consideration.

 

For sniping (where time and being covert are on your side) longer TTT is fine. (although shorter pro-rata due to increased FPS)

 

For an assault primary / secondary at circa 328fps/1Joule then 0.28 - 0.30g make the most sense.

 

If you are regularly shooting medium distances then 0.36 in your auto capable primary really shine at 50M+

 

I mean snap shots and opportune moments are usually missed by a slow travelling BB.

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Flight time / time-to-target is also a consideration.

 

For sniping (where time and being covert are on your side) longer TTT is fine. (although shorter pro-rata due to increased FPS)

 

For an assault primary / secondary at circa 328fps/1Joule then 0.28 - 0.30g make the most sense.

 

If you are regularly shooting medium distances then 0.36 in your auto capable primary really shine at 50M+

 

I mean snap shots and opportune moments are usually missed by a slow travelling BB.

 

 

 

tricky balance, personally i reckon the extra opportunities afforded by better range/precision are more useful.

 

after all its much more common to have half a head and a gun barrel sitting still to shoot at than having a full torso running at full speed.

[Davegolf]

Agreed, just think excess weight in GBB pistols being a secondary is unnecessary.

 

Different story with MK23s etc obv

[Adolf Hamster]

19 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Agreed, just think excess weight in GBB pistols being a secondary is unnecessary.

 

Different story with MK23s etc obv

 

funny we're on the same page but for different reasons lol.

 

although granted there is a certain pleasure in outranging someone with a pistol....

[Davegolf]

Don't get me wrong - it's so satisfying (and annoying for the recipient) getting pistol kill in the woods 😁

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, Davegolf said:

Don't get me wrong - it's so satisfying (and annoying for the recipient) getting pistol kill in the woods 😁

 

it's pretty much the only reason i bought the ct25, ultimate shaming getting taken out by that thing

[Skara]

49 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

it's pretty much the only reason i bought the ct25, ultimate shaming getting taken out by that thing

On that matter, I wonder if it's possible to slap a hop up on one of those €10 clear plastic springer pistols.

[Adolf Hamster]

3 minutes ago, Skara said:

On that matter, I wonder if it's possible to slap a hop up on one of those €10 clear plastic springer pistols.

 

anything's possible, hell i wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find one at least has an attempt at a hop already in it.

[Impulse]

I'm basically trying to build the ultimate sidearm (to go alongside my VSR which I've modded to the peak of my teching capabilities), hence my questions on BB weight. Already got an idea of the upgrades I will be fitting, but then was just wondering what BBs I should use, as I'm pretty sure it'll be able to hop anything I put into it.

 

On 12/07/2020 at 11:20, Adolf Hamster said:

the biggest problem running the heavies in pistols is it can put extra back-pressure on the system and bulge the loading nozzle, over time this can cause it to burst or simply leak gas and cause cycling issues.

 

this will vary depending on the make, needless to say tm's higher quality plastics can hold up to it a bit better.

 

however there's another argument against not going too heavy, which is a case of overkill, or more correctly having a gun that can shoot further than your skill as a shooter allows.

 

these days i tend to stick to ~0.3's in the makarov for precisely this reason, i can't shoot well enough to take advantage of the range using .48's would give and it means you aren't replacing nozzles every other magazine.

 

Now this. This is a problem I had no idea about and am glad you raised it. Yes, my pistols are TM, so higher quality plastics, but I'd like to not screw up the nozzles as replacing them would be annoying. I think I may copy you and use .3s, maybe .32s at a push, but not entirely sure. That's generally the weight I use in 1J guns, so it would make sense I suppose.

[Adolf Hamster]

5 minutes ago, Impulse said:

Now this. This is a problem I had no idea about and am glad you raised it. Yes, my pistols are TM, so higher quality plastics, but I'd like to not screw up the nozzles as replacing them would be annoying. I think I may copy you and use .3s, maybe .32s at a push, but not entirely sure. That's generally the weight I use in 1J guns, so it would make sense I suppose.

 

My hicapa is the one pistol that seems able to take the abuse of running .48's.

 

Ive noticed bulging on my WE guns, the nozzle plastic isnt quite as good and is a bit thinner on their 15mm bbu's compared to the hicapa.

 

I've not personally had any nozzles actually burst, but i've heard plenty of secondhand tales of it happening.

 

Tbh a maple leaf autobot, i key and a pdi barrel in a stock tm will fire .3's as far as i'd wager most people can actively shoot a handgun in action.

[Impulse]

29 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

My hicapa is the one pistol that seems able to take the abuse of running .48's.

 

Ive noticed bulging on my WE guns, the nozzle plastic isnt quite as good and is a bit thinner on their 15mm bbu's compared to the hicapa.

 

I've not personally had any nozzles actually burst, but i've heard plenty of secondhand tales of it happening.

 

Tbh a maple leaf autobot, i key and a pdi barrel in a stock tm will fire .3's as far as i'd wager most people can actively shoot a handgun in action.

 

Yeah, I'm going for a crazy jet barrel, MR hop (as I already have a 50 degree rubber spare) and a fang plate, as well as an upgraded piston head and magazine lip seals. For me it's because during the summer my local site is super overgrown and there are areas where I basically can't use my bolt action due to a combination of relatively short ranges and low rate of fire, so I tend to fall back on my pistol a lot and want to make it as high performing as possible. Heavy BBs help punch through some foliage, as well as being able to shoot at any range effectively, but at the same time I don't want to ruin my guns

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Impulse said:

 

Yeah, I'm going for a crazy jet barrel, MR hop (as I already have a 50 degree rubber spare) and a fang plate, as well as an upgraded piston head and magazine lip seals. For me it's because during the summer my local site is super overgrown and there are areas where I basically can't use my bolt action due to a combination of relatively short ranges and low rate of fire, so I tend to fall back on my pistol a lot and want to make it as high performing as possible. Heavy BBs help punch through some foliage, as well as being able to shoot at any range effectively, but at the same time I don't want to ruin my guns

 

punching through foliage is a good argument for running heavier.

 

is the piston head an expanding o-ring style like an aeg head? that *should* mitigate some effects of bulging as it's a dynamic fit.

 

mag seals isn't something i've done, but more because nobody makes them for the makarov

[Davegolf]

I built a matched pair of P226's a few years back, they were very accurate at 50M and obv range out further than that. (EDIT; TO CLARIFY IM TALKING MARUI)

 

All the consisted of was;

Longer barrel, 120mm i think, PDI Raven barrels.

PDI W-hold, excellent fit bucking in the TM hop unit, and excellent nozzle seal.

Hi-Capa piston lid seal, they did not like the O ring types.

Prommy purple gas routes.

0.36g BBs

 

Also of note witht he TM P226s is checking for moulding marks rubbing of outer barrel to underside of the slide, wet-or-dry paper gives consistency improvements here.

Likewise with any GBB always check for free motion of the BBU / nozzle.

 

They out shot most MK23s

 

Said it before but not a fan of crazy jet barrels.