Government Clarification on Airsoft/Paintball and Covid. Currently Not Allowed

[Asomodai]

This was posted by the UK paintball federation on FB in the past few hours. 

 

This is the government clarification needed to stop sites from opening. 

 

Paintball and inferring from that Airsoft is counted as a Theme Park, adventure park or Leisure activity.

 

 

 

 

[Tommikka]

I posted this over to a paintball forum this morning and was going to put it on here and cross reference some of the recent Coid threads

 

You’ve saved me from making the post and linking the common situation to airsoft ...... but also provided some minor entertainment as I know the guy caught in your screenshots.  I have had the delight of bringing it to his attention that he is posted on an airsoft forum.

For anyone who wants to access the original and the links:

 

 

 

[RYoung22]

As said in another forum on here, it’s good that 90% of the industry had their head screwed in properly,

personally I’d rather wait a while to get back on the field safely than risk being part of a “second-peak” kinda problem 

[Encore]

I think most of us knew this would be the case, but glad there is some clarification now. 

 

We'll have to wait longer, which is a shame, but its the right thing to do.

[Adolf Hamster]

hopefully the independant (ie not paintball related sites) will take this for what it means.

 

kinda highlights the need for airsoft to have a proper governing body now, grassroots is all well and good but it'd add some much needed consistency and legitimacy to our hobby.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

hopefully the independant (ie not paintball related sites) will take this for what it means.

 

kinda highlights the need for airsoft to have a proper governing body now, grassroots is all well and good but it'd add some much needed consistency and legitimacy to our hobby.

 

Completely agree. I expect it will take local players to feed this information back to skirmish sites. It is of course quite extraordinary circumstances and I think very few would of predicted the specifics. That being said, a a united body won't just be useful for relaying information from government down, but as restrictions loosens we can't rule out risk assessments and decision making being made at different levels (ie national government(s) and local government and put simply the "clout" needed to engage at these levels is more then one site on their own can reasonably expected to do. We will see i guess, and i suppose all i am trying to say is "it can't hurt".

 

Its good to know about the "theme park, adventure park and outdoor leisure" part of it as well - one to keep an eye on.

 

That being said - whilst none of us know when airsoft will come back, I think must of us have an idea of "what things will look like when airsoft comes back" and I thinkkkkkkkk its fair to say that we're not there yet. When I heard of sites opening up this week I reacted with scepticism, not excitement, and i can't be the only one. 

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

45 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Its good to know about the "theme park, adventure park and outdoor leisure" part of it as well - one to keep an eye on.

 

see that says a lot about what the government thinks airsoft/paintball are, we're being lumped in with places like alton towers rather than being recognised as a sport.

 

a governing body could do more than just react to these kind of scenarios, it'd be great for there to be some standardisation on things like chrono'ing, rules and enforcement (eg what should constitute a ban), standards for marshalling etc.

 

right now it's pretty much business owners doing whatever they want often with minimum understanding and that's a recipe for inconsistent and chaotic experiences.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

19 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

see that says a lot about what the government thinks airsoft/paintball are, we're being lumped in with places like alton towers rather than being recognised as a sport.

 

a governing body could do more than just react to these kind of scenarios, it'd be great for there to be some standardisation on things like chrono'ing, rules and enforcement (eg what should constitute a ban), standards for marshalling etc.

 

right now it's pretty much business owners doing whatever they want often with minimum understanding and that's a recipe for inconsistent and chaotic experiences.

 

See this is where I disagree. I see "airsoft" as a hobby, and skirmishes/milsims/everything in between as a "game". Sure you wanna out gun and out run people but I don't really see it as a capital-C Competitive thing.

 

As for the rest - I don't think we need standardisation across airsoft sites. We deffo need some education about joules and all that stuff but stuff like marshalling and enforcement should really be left to sites/marshalls discretion. 

 

I think the grassroots, somewhat "underground" nature of airsoft is absolutely a good thing. But I think there a specific circumstances - namely engaging with the government - that would benefit from a united approach/working in partnership.

 

thanks 

[Ropeyshep]

21 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

See this is where I disagree. I see "airsoft" as a hobby, and skirmishes/milsims/everything in between as a "game". Sure you wanna out gun and out run people but I don't really see it as a capital-C Competitive thing.

 

Much like golf or tennis for everyday players then?

 

I agree wholeheartedly on the need for an organisation to represent the hobby to government or authorities. 

[Adolf Hamster]

54 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

See this is where I disagree. I see "airsoft" as a hobby, and skirmishes/milsims/everything in between as a "game". Sure you wanna out gun and out run people but I don't really see it as a capital-C Competitive thing.

 

As for the rest - I don't think we need standardisation across airsoft sites. We deffo need some education about joules and all that stuff but stuff like marshalling and enforcement should really be left to sites/marshalls discretion. 

 

I think the grassroots, somewhat "underground" nature of airsoft is absolutely a good thing. But I think there a specific circumstances - namely engaging with the government - that would benefit from a united approach/working in partnership.

 

thanks 

 

i can see where you're coming from, my argument for calling it a sport comes from the fact there are competitions out there and you can win prize money, plenty of folks getting sponsorship deals etc.

 

if you look at it that way our skirmish days are the equivalent of a 5 aside game of football at the local amateur club, and whilst a lot of folk (myself included) just play for the fun of it and generally are as happy losing a hard-fought battle as they are winning it, there is a competitive element (teams do win or lose games) and some folk do set some store in trying to win as many games as they can.

 

grassroots does have its benefits, especially for growing the hobby, but if we're thinking long term it'd be nice to have an official organisation.

 

 

[Tommikka]

On 03/06/2020 at 15:26, Adolf Hamster said:

 

i can see where you're coming from, my argument for calling it a sport comes from the fact there are competitions out there and you can win prize money, plenty of folks getting sponsorship deals etc.

 

if you look at it that way our skirmish days are the equivalent of a 5 aside game of football at the local amateur club, and whilst a lot of folk (myself included) just play for the fun of it and generally are as happy losing a hard-fought battle as they are winning it, there is a competitive element (teams do win or lose games) and some folk do set some store in trying to win as many games as they can.

 

grassroots does have its benefits, especially for growing the hobby, but if we're thinking long term it'd be nice to have an official organisation.

 

 

There are sports and sports.

From the general definition of sport airsoft can be an activity, but is a long way from being a 'recognised sport' under the criteria of Sport England etc.

The government classification as an 'activity' is valid.

Even if an activity is recognised as a sport, then that doesn't mean all playing of it is sport.  Football is a sport, Sunday league pub football is  sport, but a kick about in the park isn't.

 

Elements of airsoft and paintball could meet the starting criteria of Sport England, these would be tournament speedsoft and tournament paintball.  Other competitive forms could also meet the starting criteria such as the woods ball league, and arguably our Battle Royale 'tournaments'.

 

Prizes & prize money - perhaps, but it depends on the type of competition.

Sponsorship would also depend - in itself it doesn't imply a sport, and there are some very loose definitions of 'sponsorship'.

Paintball has a long tradition of 'sponsorship' which is a glorified discount. Very few have a real sponsorship which is a two way relationship.

 

For the purposes of the current thread, airsoft and paintball are activities and will have to wait a bit longer.

For resilience with an organisation and representation paintball is in a fairly good position with recognition of the UKPSF as a representative body to government, but a disappointing low number of player membership.

The wider world of paintball isn't all rosy though - an attempt to form the WPBO (World Paintball Organisation) and to create one international tournament  rulebook failed from the start.

(Millennium rules were fairly well established as a common rulebook in Europe and the UK, and many assorted league rules in the US.)

From the offset the 'one' rule book had certain rules for the US and certain rules for the UK, and any company or league in the US that weren't part of the WPBO collaborative or didn't; like personalities ran their own leagues to their own rules.

Airsoft did well with the ABA, UKARA & UKASGB working with the government the VCR bill prior to the VCRA enactment  and establishing the skirmisher defence, but from what I have seen the UKARA would be a special interest group rather than a representative body.

 

** Update correction

 

• Association of British Airsoft
• The United Kingdom Airsoft Retailers Association
• The United Kingdom Airsoft Sites Governing Body

 

 

[John_W]

To be accurate, the ABA established the defence, the UKARA put in place the system to verify it.

[Tommikka]

22 minutes ago, John_W said:

To be accurate, the ABA established the defence, the UKARA put in place the system to verify it.

 

You know what you've done now by bringing up the ABA and thus allowing me to track down this old link from back in the day?????

https://www.popularairsoft.com/news/ukasgb-ukara-aba-proposal-vcr-bill

 

 

The Scheme would involve the following:

• The ABA would undertake to issue Player Licenses. This would result in recognized players.

Thats just ruined approx 13 years of forum members telling new posters that there is no such thing as an airsoft licence.

[J1989h]

I’m new to airsoft just started getting into the sport/game then we had the epidemic.

 

I'm currently a key worker volunteering at my wife’s food store she runs and I ask you this,

 

what’s the difference from say 20 people playing outside or inside (mostly with full mask/face guards) 

 

Compared to going to a crowded store. 
 

Asda and Tesco for example are letting so many in at a time, that’s great I appreciate what there doing I respect it and I wait.

 

BUT when your inside hardly anyone stays back or follows the one way system and I finally snapped at some older couple who literally pushed past me to get to a shelf.

 

My point is as a key worker watching what’s happening in crowded places I myself would feel safer in a field with a mask than in my local store.

[E21A]

1 hour ago, J1989h said:

I’m new to airsoft just started getting into the sport/game then we had the epidemic.

 

I'm currently a key worker volunteering at my wife’s food store she runs and I ask you this,

 

what’s the difference from say 20 people playing outside or inside (mostly with full mask/face guards) 

 

Compared to going to a crowded store. 
 

Asda and Tesco for example are letting so many in at a time, that’s great I appreciate what there doing I respect it and I wait.

 

BUT when your inside hardly anyone stays back or follows the one way system and I finally snapped at some older couple who literally pushed past me to get to a shelf.

 

My point is as a key worker watching what’s happening in crowded places I myself would feel safer in a field with a mask than in my local store.

Going to a supermarket is essential, shooting plastic balls at each other isnt 

[Tommikka]

..... let’s not forget that airsofters would normally gather in the safe zone, wear partial face protection (ranging among eyes only, mouth guards and full face masks - often with holes for air flow), normal airsoft PPE is removed between games (in the safe zone), they (Or at least some) exert themselves when playing increasing the rate of breathing, they deal with staff - Marshall’s & counter sales etc.

 

Airsoft is a non essential leisure activity that has closed down, and will reopen when the situation is ready - and sites will have considered measures to add protection to staff & customers .... such as more spaced staging, restricted numbers, counter sneeze guards, PPE considerations, change some game zones and rules which could include proximity limits etc

 

Supermarkets provide essential supplies and have remained open for the duration, they have brought in spacing measures, sneeze guards, closed alternating checkouts, restricted sales on specific items, entry limits and specified routes.

PPE is an option for some and compulsory for others (eg customers have the choice, staff are likely to be wearing masks and gloves)

 

Not everyone is going to respect the rules and that is also to be taken into consideration.

For the duration I’ve been working from home, but I am also a carer to a minor degree.

I have been collecting and delivering shopping, prescriptions etc to family, friends and also strangers among local groups.

Shortly before lockdown I had been suffering from pneumonia and a chest infection so could consider a risk from Covid. 
I’d prefer being in a field to being in a supermarket queue, but there are different reasons for each of them.

[Stratton Oakmont]

On 7 June 2020 at 09:23, Tommikka said:

Airsoft is a non essential leisure activity that has closed down, and will reopen when the situation is ready - and sites will have considered measures to add protection to staff & customers .... such as more spaced staging, restricted numbers, counter sneeze guards, PPE considerations, change some game zones and rules which could include proximity limits etc

Exactly it is non essential.

The measures to open again however are simple, it is a balance of the economic need vs the desire of the individual to participate.

economically-changing how everything in the world operates to cope with a potential pandemic is unreasonable and given that the last one was 100 years go how long do you think those measures would last under pressure from businesses in the world we live in.

the choice to play is down to the individual, if it's a risk to you don't play.

we are in a pandemic, it will pass and people will inevitably go back to how they were over time if economic pressure is the driving force.

you only have to look at current events that have already overtaken the narrative in justifying a lack of social distancing in public to  allow them to demonstrate to champion a social cause

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

On 7 June 2020 at 09:23, Tommikka said:

Not everyone is going to respect the rules and that is also to be taken into consideration.

 

Are these the rules that one week 2m is enough for social distancing but under economic pressure 1m is now acceptable based on "they are doing it so should we" justification.

forgive me but rules are subject to change depending on a multitude of factors and "the science" is not always the driving force behind them. (Generally people choose the version of scientific evidence that serves them best).

Cynical I know but history has a habit of repeating itself but I hope to be convinced otherwise

[AlphaBear]

It seems some sites ran games this weekend gone... How was this even possible? I'm flabbergasted that site owners would do this.....

 

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

12 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

It seems some sites ran games this weekend gone... How was this even possible? I'm flabbergasted that site owners would do this.....

 

 

Why?

the tipping point occurs when enough people do something to make the rules governing it irrelevant,  thats the positive/negative of a democratic society 

 

At what point would you return to Airsoft, when the rules say you can?

not a question specifically to you but the does justification to do so imply safety??

i don't know, I just see lines in the sand as just that and they move a lot.

 

I'm as middle of the road as they come but people with strong opinions do pique my interest 

[AlphaBear]

For me it's simply a matter of when it's 'safe' to do so... but what is considered safe these days? Many people will have their opinions on this topic and debate is good...  

 

I feel this weekend was way too soon, but then you saw all those demos in the UK happening too and all those people bunched up and I'm thinking damn that's just inviting trouble... So what is considered safe? The first measure of 'safe' in my opinion is surely when the government says it's safe to partake in such events? Not when a site owner says so. Then there is the distinction between those sites who operate as a business vs those who operate for fun. Business owners will want to open as quick as possible. That's understandable. However, safety should be paramount. It's not just the safety of the players but the potential risk they could pass on to family and friends without even realising it...  

 

Make no mistake, the world as we knew has changed and that's beyond doubt. The  question now is how we mitigate the risk...  Personally If I don't play this year, so be it.... it's not the end of the world... It would be nice to be able to get a few games in if possible, but think of this.... the last quarter of the year will become colder, wetter and the flu season will begin... this is when the next major hurdle will be placed in front of the nation.  However, the optimist in me is hoping a vaccine could be available by then (unlikely though)....  

 

The debate continues......

[Stratton Oakmont]

7 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

However, safety should be paramount. It's not just the safety of the players but the potential risk they could pass on to family and friends without even realising it...

Does that responsibility not lie with the participant? Or does he/she by being given permission absolve themselves of the responsibility and can blame the govt/ business. I'm all for choice and personal responsibility but It looks to me that some my need to blame others to justify their participation if a second wave occurred 

[AlphaBear]

1 minute ago, osteoshot said:

Does that responsibility not lie with the participant? Or does he/she by being given permission absolve themselves of the responsibility and can blame the govt/ business. I'm all for choice and personal responsibility but It looks to me that some my need to blame others to justify their participation if a second wave occurred 

 

Everyone has a choice.... however many may not be able to make a choice unless guided to do so and then when things go Pete Tong they will say 'so and so said it was safe to do so' in an attempt to absolve themselves... I mean the govt is saying that pubs may re-open in a couple of weeks.... I'm more than happy getting my booze from Tecos or whatever and I certainly won't be in a rush to get to my local... and that's my choice.... My neighbour will say 'sod that' I'm going....

 

Interesting news today... NZ have declared themselves Covid free and will begin lifting all restrictions but their border will remain 'closed'..  they locked down very quickly.... but hey hindsight eh?

[Stratton Oakmont]

Until they reopen and then have a population with no immunity with the potential of an asymptomatic carrier starting it all over again

[AlphaBear]

Exactly..... as I said, we need to accept the new normal...... the world as we knew it has changed....