TM NGRS is it worth it?

[joshcowin]

After dipping in and out of the airsoft scene for the last 2 years I’ve came back to see a lot of hype on social media about TM m4’s and the NGRS system. I’ve also seen a lot of companies doing upgrade packages on the platform and claiming they are the best aeg out there. Would people agree with that and say that they are at the top of the tree in regards to range, accuracy or is there a better aeg out there even with upgrades? The whole reason I’m asking is because in the next couple of months I will be purchasing a rif again and I’m happy to spend that extra if it’s worth it. Thanks Josh

[Guest Yukarin]

 

[Sawyer]

I'll say this, it depends on you.

 

Many moons ago, when I first got into Airsofting, I was using a Classic Army M15A4, and then, after that, a G&P M4A1. The thing is, whilst I enjoyed going airsofting, I didn't enjoy USING the guns. They might have "shot like laser beams", or whatever 15 to 19 year old me thought, but a couple of things really took me out of it. The motor noise, and dry firing when the magazine ran empty.

 

Getting an NGRS changed that for me. They sound good, still a little electric, but they've got a bit of a clunk to them, and the bolt stop when empty. Sure, you might be able to get better performance for a lot cheaper, and I've spent money upgrading mine, but for the recoil (One that actually works reliably) and bolt stop, you can't beat them.

 

TMs have very good range and accuracy out of the box, without needing to do anything. If left alone, other than a LIPO mod, they will probably run forever. Other guns can be upgraded to that standard, with a higher FPS, for less.

 

It depends what is important to you. I love a gas blow back rifle, the NGRS is the closest thing I can run without a load of faffing.

[Philby21]

As @Sawyer says, it does depend on the user, some love them, some hate them.

 

I have a G36 that I've thrown £200+ of upgrades at, phenomenal range, excellent ROF (but not stupid), high accuracy and tight groupings at range - even on full auto, my TM M4 still outdoes it on all but ROF straight out of the box - all I had to do was set the hop.

 

The recoil isn't strong, absolutely nothing like the real thing, but it does add to the fun factor, as does the bolt stop.  I love using mine and it's pretty much always my first choice (apart from when I've changed something else on the G36), I run it on 7.4 lipos but other than that won't be changing anything else on it other than the hop rubber when it needs it - they don't need upgrading and can give years of use if they're not messed around with.

 

Slight difference with me, I specifically wanted a Sopmod, spent ages looking around at other brands but nothing came remotely close on build quality/reliability/reputation (Specna's Edge series hadn't been released yet) so the TM was pretty much the only choice.  I am definitely not disappointed that I "had" to buy one! 😂

[Sneaky]

I have a TM Scar H and I totally love it, so I would be bias on this subject.  I like the realism of it and I always wanted a Scar H.  I have spent plenty on upgrades (soon to drop a Gate Titan).  Best thing to do is go airsofting and see if you can try a NGRS out and take it from there.  Some people like them and others hate them, which is fair enough.

 

Like with anything it is down to personal taste. Do you research of them too, before jumping in. 

[heroshark]

I don't really understand what there is to hate about them. They are a reliable AEG with recoil, bolt stop that work well oob. And continue to work well if you leave the gb stock. Cons? On a sliding scale of price you don't get all that more for your money, but if you can afford and like it why not. The power is a little low. My take is my last TM AEG ran fine for 11 years untouched. Long game I'll upgrade it when the gb goes, or there will be a better option for me by then. For now I popped a nice barrel in which gives enough of a boost. 

[Davegolf]

If you are set on an AEG, of an AR flavour and you can afford it then you will absolutely not regret purchasing one.

 

Aside from the performance and reliability, the controls and functions add another dimension to the fun of playing.

[Musica]

I think the upgrade culture popular youtubers have created make peoples perception warped to think they NEED upgraded as they don't even use them before getting tipple the price of the gun in parts put in.  

 

 

[EvilMonkee]

Are they good guns out of the box? Yes.  Are they the be all and end all they are pushed as? No.  And the most important question, are they worth the near (and frequently) over £500 price tag.  Fuck no.  

 

There are numerous other options just as good if not better considerably cheaper. 

[E21A]

19 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

Are they good guns out of the box? Yes.  Are they the be all and end all they are pushed as? No.  And the most important question, are they worth the near (and frequently) over £500 price tag.  Fuck no.  

 

There are numerous other options just as good if not better considerably cheaper. 

 

This. 

 

If price isn’t a problem and you don’t want to tinker/upgrade then they’re probably the best bet. Other than that, there’s plenty of options that will serve you well. 

[Davegolf]

22 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

And the most important question, are they worth the near (and frequently) over £500 price tag.  Fuck no.  

 

There are numerous other options just as good if not better considerably cheaper. 

 

I have to disagree with that statement.

 

Take it you've owned one @EvilMonkee?

[Musica]

5 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

 

I have to disagree with that statement.

 

Take it you've owned one @EvilMonkee?

I think it has to be said TMs aren't worth their money for performance. Other brands are just as good as firing bbs at people but TM are one of a few manufacturers that offer a feature set (EBB, Stop on empty and a cycling bolt). The only other brand that match feature for feature is the KWA ERGs or at least the only other brand that I know about. 

 

 

[Davegolf]

Performance is THE main thing with TM Recoils, I couldn't car less for the recoil feature, the hop system and air seal are leagues above the rest, accuracy AKA shot/hop consistency are what you're paying for.

None of these components need upgrading and are the biggest contributor to a decent gun.

 

The only limiting performance factor is the FPS when you really push it.

 

[EvilMonkee]

No, I have, however, fired lots and compared them directly to my own AEGs.  Take my CM4 for instance, I compared that not long ago to a TM 416D.  Roughly the same range, with the TM being a bit more accurate at longer ranges.  Or my LCT AKM which was far better unupgraded than the TM AK74 my friend was running (also un-upgraded). 

 

Out of the box un-upgraded they are an average AEG, there are other brands that will perform just as well.  The difference being those other brands won't cost you £500+ for a proprietary system with proprietary mags.  

 

But hey if you want to continue to buy the marketing thats your choice and good luck to you

48 minutes ago, Musica said:

I think it has to be said TMs aren't worth their money for performance. Other brands are just as good as firing bbs at people but TM are one of a few manufacturers that offer a feature set (EBB, Stop on empty and a cycling bolt). The only other brand that match feature for feature is the KWA ERGs or at least the only other brand that I know about. 

 

 

 

Indeed, and which were designed by the person who did the TM NGRS and which cost roughly £100-150 less......

[E21A]

47 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Performance is THE main thing with TM Recoils, I couldn't car less for the recoil feature, the hop system and air seal are leagues above the rest, accuracy AKA shot/hop consistency are what you're paying for.

 

That same performance can be had for a lot less though. The recoil,stop on empty etc, in addition to otb performance, is the selling point of TM recoils 

 

[heroshark]

I'm not 100% but from what I've gleaned a stock erg does not have the reliability or longevity of a stock TM.  Now a TM may seem pricey on paper but depending on the comparative longevity of platforms if you just leave them as stock the extra you spend is worth it from my previous TMs long and reliable lives.

[Sneaky]

3 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

Are they good guns out of the box? Yes.  Are they the be all and end all they are pushed as? No.  And the most important question, are they worth the near (and frequently) over £500 price tag.  Fuck no.  

 

There are numerous other options just as good if not better considerably cheaper. 

I think it’s worth it, but that’s just me.

[Davegolf]

1 hour ago, E21A said:

 

That same performance can be had for a lot less though. The recoil,stop on empty etc, in addition to otb performance, is the selling point of TM recoils 

 

 

Sure you can upgrade another gun to achieve similar performance hop wise, but it's the actual alignment of the gearbox, nozzle, hop unit that is hard to replicate to the standard of TM without serious time and skill input.

 

Quality control and component precision is what you're getting.

 

Bells and whistles are a bonus but other guns stick or modified are few and far between that can level with a TM on the hop / reliability front.

 

Just trying to give a round picture to the OP on the less obvious merits.

 

And if you wanted to upgrade it then spring change and Rhop are the only real big ones that pay off and get you 95% of what a Recoil is capable of at a 1J limit.

 

LiPo is a necessity.

[E21A]

1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

 

Sure you can upgrade another gun to achieve similar performance hop wise, but it's the actual alignment of the gearbox, nozzle, hop unit that is hard to replicate to the standard of TM without serious time and skill input.

 

Im talking standard guns. 

 

[Davegolf]

Yeh that's what I mean, other guns need upgrading generally to level with a stock TM in that department

[E21A]

3 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Yeh that's what I mean, other guns need upgrading generally to level with a stock TM in that department

 

Yea, I mean there are other standard guns that match TM performance and outclass them in other ways, and cost less to boot. 

[hunter511]

11 hours ago, Musica said:

I think the upgrade culture popular youtubers have created make peoples perception warped to think they NEED upgraded as they don't even use them before getting tipple the price of the gun in parts put in.  

 

 

Incidently if you aren't aware that TM A) supply .25s and B) TM BB's are about the best available you PROBABLY shouldn't be reviewing airsoft kit.......

Plus MtM is an absolute thunderc**t. But yeah, I don't get the whole Uber-upgrade before playing mentality. 

[Lozart]

15 hours ago, hunter511 said:

 But yeah, I don't get the whole Uber-upgrade before playing mentality. 

 

I think a lot of that comes from the US, their fields often have much higher FPS limits than we do so the performance shortfall is a lot more noticeable for them. When I was looking at the G&G SCAR most of the negative reviews were from people trying to upgrade it to 400+ FPS for use in the US, the positive ones were from people happy to use it out of the box.

[Musica]

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

I think a lot of that comes from the US, their fields often have much higher FPS limits than we do so the performance shortfall is a lot more noticeable for them. When I was looking at the G&G SCAR most of the negative reviews were from people trying to upgrade it to 400+ FPS for use in the US, the positive ones were from people happy to use it out of the box.

I agree on that 400fps vs 300fps is pretty significant and probably why things like Krytac are king in the US not TMs. 

[PureSilver]

On 09/10/2019 at 15:49, Musica said:

Other brands are just as good as firing bbs at people but TM are one of a few manufacturers that offer a feature set (EBB, Stop on empty and a cycling bolt).

 

This is pretty much it. If you want to have interactive features that should have been on other AEGs decades ago, you choose between a PTW ($2.4k plus $145 magazines if you want recoil), ERGs (nice, but flawed in a lot of ways NGRSs aren't), and Recoil Shocks. If you don't care about recoil you could add the regular PTWs (£1k+, haven't advanced in a decade), the Scorpion EVO3A1 (excellent gun, though no recoil) and the VFC MP7A1 ~AEG (like the Scorpion, but the price of an NGRS). If you don't care about any of those features, then it's probably not going to be worth the money to you - if you're complaining about having to buy a few new magazines it's a good sign your priorities don't really align...

 

The real alternatives to Recoil Shocks - recoil, interactivity, trademarks and good externals - are really higher-end GBBRs, not other AEGs. Sure, the performance and build quality of a basic M4 AEG can be comparable to an NGRS, but it's also a straight clone of a gun that came out the same year as the original PlayStation. A GHK is price-comparable to a SOPMOD, but with magazines that are triple the price, half the capacity but 10-20x as expensive to fill, and very sensitive to temperature changes. The GHK gets far more recoil, the Recoil Shock gets far more reliable operation. For me it was totally worth the cost - I couldn't get that combination of features anywhere else.

 

On 09/10/2019 at 20:31, hunter511 said:

Incidently if you aren't aware that TM A) supply .25s and B) TM BB's are about the best available you PROBABLY shouldn't be reviewing airsoft kit...

 

There are about 200 reasons not to buy a Recoil Shock over something like an Avalon, but that video is still complete wank.

 

On 09/10/2019 at 18:16, heroshark said:

I'm not 100% but from what I've gleaned a stock erg does not have the reliability or longevity of a stock TM.

 

The ERGs have issues of their own - the AKs (just like the TMs) are a typically naff Japanese design, rather than the far more modern VFC style, with aluminium externals. The M4s are actually pretty good - I'd recommend them to Americans (who want 400FPS easily), and to people who want to use regular magazines without an adaptor. Both suffer a serious lack of aftermarket support which means the upgrades you can do to tailor a TM to what you want it to do (e.g. DMR roles) or to add new features (e.g. precocking) aren't possible.