legality

[kasaran]

I was under the impression full auto over 350fps wasnt legal in the uk...  for a uk shop to advertise a non-downgraded cyma rpk seems dodgey.  Ignoring the typos

 

Https://www.cheapbbguns.co.uk/cyma-cm052-rpk-lmg-with-real-wood

 

[Gepard]

General rule of thumb is to stay away from any shop with "BB" in the title. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gepard said:

General rule of thumb is to stay away from any shop with "BB" in the title. 

 

This. Always this

[Prisce]

367 is the legal limit for full auto I think. 

 

But I do agree, I have just spent today helping a 15 year old who purchased a gun from a market in Devon understand that a pistol shooting at 415fps on C02 In this weather is a section 5 fire arm and he shouldn’t have been allowed to purchase it.

[Wo1f]

Correct on both accounts. 370 FPS for full auto is the legal max and anything with B.B. in is best avoided. 

 

Having said that... I’ve bought stuff from zero one and other U.K. shops that’s advertised as 360 FPS and turned out to be much more. The scar H I bought from them was 440fps

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Prisce said:

a pistol shooting at 415fps on C02 In this weather is a section 5 fire arm

 

I'd have thought that was an air pistol. Air pistol limit is 6 ft/lbs or ~8.135J, CO₂ power is explicitly allowed by Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 S48.

 

Enforcement of this seems to be pretty much non-existent.  I'd be surprised if even a firearms specialist unit could tell you offhand what the energy limit is for airsoft guns.

[Prisce]

It’s a KWC C02 1911, most shops say it fires at 370fps, but this one chronoed at 415... 

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I'd have thought that was an air pistol. Air pistol limit is 6 ft/lbs or ~8.135J, CO₂ power is explicitly allowed by Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 S48.

 

Enforcement of this seems to be pretty much non-existent.  I'd be surprised if even a firearms specialist unit could tell you offhand what the energy limit is for airsoft guns.

Hopefully we shall be changing that soon.

[jcheeseright]

17 hours ago, Prisce said:

367 is the legal limit for full auto I think. 

 

But I do agree, I have just spent today helping a 15 year old who purchased a gun from a market in Devon understand that a pistol shooting at 415fps on C02 In this weather is a section 5 fire arm and he shouldn’t have been allowed to purchase it.

 

Nearly spat my tea out at that, stop talking shit to people, it's an air pistol not section 5. 

[Prisce]

1 hour ago, jcheeseright said:

 

Nearly spat my tea out at that, stop talking shit to people, it's an air pistol not section 5. 

It’s a KWC CO2 1911, it was sold as an Airsoft pistol to a 15 year old at a market in Devon. Can provide you with details if you require?

 

Doesnt change the fact it’s illegal to sell to a 15year old. No matter what.

 

If it’s sold as an airsoft pistol then my original statement is correct. 

[Rogerborg]

And illegal to purchase as well, but it's the illegal sale and purchase of an air pistol and RIF, not a firearm.

 

 

18 hours ago, Prisce said:

I have just spent today helping a 15 year old who purchased a gun from a market in Devon understand that a pistol shooting at 415fps on C02 In this weather is a section 5 fire arm

 

Will you help us to understand why?

 

Genuine question, why would you think this?

[Prisce]

4 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

And illegal to purchase as well, but it's the illegal sale and purchase of an air pistol and RIF, not a firearm.

 

 

 

Will you help us to understand why?

 

Genuine question, why would you think this?

Sorry you’ve lost me? Why what? Think what? Not following sorry. 

 

After speaking with him today i do think your right about being an air pistol, considering the stall also sold air rifles(didn’t know this yesterday)- still illegal. 

 

The trouble with talking to 15yr olds this day and age is they don’t talk sentences so getting information out of them is incredibly difficult.

[Rogerborg]

2 minutes ago, Prisce said:

Sorry you’ve lost me? Why what? Think what?

 

That...

 

18 hours ago, Prisce said:

a pistol shooting at 415fps on C02 In this weather is a section 5 fire arm

 

Third time I've quoted it.

 

I'm asking out of genuine interest.  There may be something of which I'm unaware.

 

Aside, if you can get more than 1.3J out of a fully automatic gun, or 2.5J for single/semi, while running on any gasses other than compressed air or CO2, that is a firearm as far as I can tell.  I wonder how many propane-based gunners know this.

[Prisce]

Oh, I realise my mistake. I’m saying 415fps is a section 5 firearm... it’s not. That would be the case if it was full auto.

 

I had unwittingly presumed it was full auto.

 

I don’t have the gun in front of me so can’t say it is or isn’t. 

 

Totally my bad,  was wondering what everyone was on about....

 

 

 

Out of interest, is there a way of telling if a pistol is Airsoft or air pistol?  I believed KWC just made Airsoft guns, am I wrong?

4 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That...

 

 

Third time I've quoted it.

 

I'm asking out of genuine interest.  There may be something of which I'm unaware.

 

Aside, if you can get more than 1.3J out of a fully automatic gun, or 2.5J for single/semi, while running on any gasses other than compressed air or CO2, that is a firearm as far as I can tell.  I wonder how many propane-based gunners know this.

 

[Slamz]

22 hours ago, Prisce said:

Oh, I realise my mistake. I’m saying 415fps is a section 5 firearm... it’s not. That would be the case if it was full auto.

 

 

Can I ask where you've got this info from? As 415fps may be over legal Airsoft limits, that doesn't suddenly make it a Section 5 firearm, and nowhere in section 5 of the firearms act can I find any reference to Airsoft max powers (as Airsoft guns are RIF's, no Firearms). The only reference I can find from a quick Google is from Airsoft retailers/sites with no actual point of reference as to their claims. 

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I genuinely would like to know why this is a thing? 

[Prisce]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

 

Can I ask where you've got this info from? As 415fps may be over legal Airsoft limits, that doesn't suddenly make it a Section 5 firearm, and nowhere in section 5 of the firearms act can I find any reference to Airsoft max powers (as Airsoft guns are RIF's, no Firearms). The only reference I can find from a quick Google is from Airsoft retailers/sites with no actual point of reference as to their claims. 

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I genuinely would like to know why this is a thing? 

Honestly, picking through and reading certain posts on this forum. Things like this, about 6 posts down on first page etc.

 

 

Also, had a discussion with a site Marshall at Chrono, who after my ASG M15 fired at 380 informed me that it is technically a Section 5 firearm.

 

I am by no means educated properly by any law giving organisation, just reading, listening and regurgitating what I have been lead to believe.

 

 

 

[Slamz]

On 31/12/2018 at 13:07, Prisce said:

Honestly, picking through and reading certain posts on this forum. Things like this, about 6 posts down on first page etc.

 

 

Also, had a discussion with a site Marshall at Chrono, who after my ASG M15 fired at 380 informed me that it is technically a Section 5 firearm.

 

I am by no means educated properly by any law giving organisation, just reading, listening and regurgitating what I have been lead to believe.

 

 

That's fair, I can definitely understand the confusion. I think there's a lot of confusion with regards to Airsoft 'law', contributed massively by the VCRA and also UKARA and peoples interpretations of them both. In my opinion (which is worth as much or as little as you want) from my experiences with section 1, 2, and 5 and what I can pull from those acts, a 'hot' airsoft gun is not a section 5 firearm, you may break air gun limits, but they're not automatically section 5 either (I think some people wrongly think anything not 100% kosher, gun-wise is automatically a 'section 5 firearm' which is not the case) 

 

This obviously doesn't take away from the fact that if you go holding places up with an airsoft gun (under or over an fps limit) you may end up having a section 5 charge thrown at you.

 

I'd also advise completely ignoring anything that site marshall ever says, as he's clearly not got a clue!

[Seth_Erebor]

On 30/12/2018 at 11:35, Prisce said:

It’s a KWC C02 1911, most shops say it fires at 370fps, but this one chronoed at 415... 

Hopefully we shall be changing that soon.

 

Changing what?

[EvilMonkee]

Its not a Section 5 Firearm.  End of story.

 

A firearm is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged".

 

Its not lethal hence its not a Firearm.  Further there is case law:

 

In R v Bewley [2012] EWCA Crim 1457, the Court of Appeal held that if an imitation firearm is to be treated as a firearm to which section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968 applies, the prosecution must prove that it can be readily converted so that it can discharge a shot, bullet or other missile. 

 

Hence,  this implies that a realistic imitation firearm (ie an AEG or GBBR) per se does not discharge 'shot, bullet or other missile' even though a BB could be considered a missile by a normal person.  The need for the prosecution to prove this is the crux of the matter.

 

So, back to point 1. Not a firearm.

 

Next.

[Venom]

On 30/12/2018 at 12:08, jcheeseright said:

 

Nearly spat my tea out at that, stop talking shit to people, it's an air pistol not section 5. 

You are a moron mate, anything above the legal limit firing full auto, is classed as SECTION 5 Firearm, you need to learn the law before you tell people they are talking bullshit, do you think because it is airsoft you can't kill someone with a BB gun, dick cheese.

[Cannonfodder]

11 minutes ago, Venom said:

You are a moron mate, anything above the legal limit firing full auto, is classed as SECTION 5 Firearm, you need to learn the law before you tell people they are talking bullshit, do you think because it is airsoft you can't kill someone with a BB gun, dick cheese.

Did you read the thread before necroposting? If you had then you'd know that the gun in question is semi auto only, as established 2 years ago. 

 

If you're going to use insults when calling someone out it's best to make sure you're right, otherwise you'll come across as the dick cheese 

[colinjallen]

5 hours ago, Venom said:

You are a moron mate, anything above the legal limit firing full auto, is classed as SECTION 5 Firearm, you need to learn the law before you tell people they are talking bullshit, do you think because it is airsoft you can't kill someone with a BB gun, dick cheese.

What a salty little twat you are.  

[MiK]

8 hours ago, Venom said:

You are a moron mate, anything above the legal limit firing full auto, is classed as SECTION 5 Firearm, you need to learn the law before you tell people they are talking bullshit, do you think because it is airsoft you can't kill someone with a BB gun, dick cheese.

They say making a good first impression will last you a life time and a bad one………….

@Venom it looks like you ‘dun fooked up my little sparrow 🙄