Sold a RIF without defense

[MPToReality]

Hey guys, 

 

This will be my first post because it's been on my mind since the purchase and need to get it cleared up. 

 

I purchased my first airsoft firearm from a high street shop a few weeks ago. I went into the shop vaguely knowing about RIF laws/regulations, but was told that I could purchase a RIF pistol without defense, but if I wanted a rifle I would need to provide a UKARA number. 

 

The person took a copy of my photo ID and asked a few general questions, like what I did for work etc. 

 

Was the retailer wrong to have sold me the pistol? 

[Gepard]

End of the day it's up to the seller to verify that the buyer is a regular skirmisher and of the legal age. If he felt satisfied having asked a few general questions and a quick glance at your ID then that's on him if you decided to go rob a bank with it the next day. 

 

Bit weird that he'd sell you a pistol without any information but to purchase a rifle he needed UKARA. It's still a RIF.. I certainly wouldn't sell any of my RIFs to somebody unless they could prove to me that they are an active player. 

 

Got any pics of your new toy? 

 

 

 

 

 

[MPToReality]

14 minutes ago, Gepard said:

End of the day it's up to the seller to verify that the buyer is a regular skirmisher and of the legal age. If he felt satisfied having asked a few general questions and a quick glance at your ID then that's on him if you decided to go rob a bank with it the next day. 

 

Bit weird that he'd sell you a pistol without any information but to purchase a rifle he needed UKARA. It's still a RIF.. I certainly wouldn't sell any of my RIFs to somebody unless they could prove to me that they are an active player. 

 

Got any pics of your new toy? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's exactly what I thought, a RIF is a RIF regardless. I'm trying to find a UKARA site that's relatively close to me (I don't drive) to be able to go through the process of purchasing RIFs properly anyway, but with all the info on the sale of them I was shocked to have been allowed to walk out with one. 

 

I picked up a Tolmar GP P1 Mk7, the non blowback 6mm version. 

[L3wisD]

Hmm.. aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

 

What does it chrono at?

[Gepard]

58 minutes ago, L3wisD said:

Hmm.. aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

 

What does it chrono at?

 

That's a good point actually. Would explain why they wouldn't sell him the rifle without a defense. 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, L3wisD said:

aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

 

4.5mm steel and 6mm BB versions are available: http://www.sportsmk.co.uk/cat/31659/air-pistols-air-pistols/tolmar/#28735 . And yes, I'd also be rather concerned that it'll chrono hotter than Kate Upton doing naked yoga in a sauna.

 

It's vaguely possible that the shopkeep believes that because there's an air pistol version, that air gun statutes trump the RIF statutes, even when selling a BB version.  To be fair, the whole area of firearms / airguns / RIF law is such an hilarious contradictory clusterfrack that it's hard to be sure.

 

Me though, I'd call that a RIF all day long, and I'd believe that an offence has been committed by the seller (but not by the purchaser if he's 18+).  That applies double if it does chrono super hot, since how could you reasonably argue that it was sold for airsoft use?

 

Aside, there's a whole can of worms that many airguns would fall foul of the VCRA S38 definition of a RIF, and no, air guns are not exempted from it.  At a 30 second Google, I can find airgun sellers flogging .177 RIFs and just asking to see ID.  I have no idea why they think this is OK.  I guess because nobody has stopped them doing it.

 

It all comes down on the retailer though.  Their risk, their choice.  If it's not being policed, as it apparently isn't, it's not much of a risk.

[L3wisD]

@MPToReality - It might be worth running that thing through a chronograph as soon as possible.

There's a chance it's going to fire incredibly hot and thus won't be allowed to be used on an airsoft site - rendering your purchase completely redundant.

 

 

[MisterG]

Is there a product code is quoted on the box?

 

That may give an indication on whether it is an airsoft or air gun.

 

Cheers

 

G

[MPToReality]

That explains a lot, although I have to admit I didn't realise there were different categories of weapon - air and airsoft. 

 

How would I go about checking its temps after discharge? 

11 minutes ago, MisterG said:

Is there a product code is quoted on the box?

 

That may give an indication on whether it is an airsoft or air gun.

 

Cheers

 

G

 

070-004

[L3wisD]

According to a couple of places, that weighs in at 440+ FPS.

 

I'd suggest returning it for a refund if that is the case.

Hopefully you've still got all the packaging and it's in good condition

[MPToReality]

11 minutes ago, L3wisD said:

According to a couple of places, that weighs in at 440+ FPS.

 

I'd suggest returning it for a refund if that is the case.

Hopefully you've still got all the packaging and it's in good condition

 

Hmm, with that FPS I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to use it on a site? Isn't the pistol limit something like 380? I'm completely new to the sport, slightly pissed off that I wasted my money on something that isn't fit for purpose in that case. 

[Ongemakje]

350-360 on most fields. 

snipers usually 450-500 with a minimum engagement of 30meters.

 

Sorry bud, i'd return it and get something online instead, or from real airsoft shops at least

[sonofsammo]

26 minutes ago, Ongemakje said:

Sorry bud, i'd return it and get something online instead, or from real airsoft shops at least

But not from a site with BB in the title.........

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, MPToReality said:

with that FPS I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to use it on a site?

 

Well, hang fire until you find out.  But it's not looking good - Evike does indeed claim 440fps+ from the blowback version, and the non-blowback might come in even higher

 

Check the site where you're intending to play.  CQB sites tend to have a hard limit for all weapons of around 350fps with 0.2g BBs.  Outdoors, anything over 350-ish will fall into the DMR category and you'll be expected to maintain a minimum engagement distance of 20m or even 30m, which rather obviates the point of using a pistol.

 

Since you specifically asked for something for airsoft use, it'd be a rogue's trick to sell you anything more than ~350fps without making you aware of the issues.

[BigStew]

It's stupid if it's classed as an air gun even if it's a replica of a firearm you only need to be over 18 to buy if its classed as airsoft the seller needs proof of your defence. 

[MPToReality]

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Well, hang fire until you find out.  But it's not looking good - Evike does indeed claim 440fps+ from the blowback version, and the non-blowback might come in even higher

 

Check the site where you're intending to play.  CQB sites tend to have a hard limit for all weapons of around 350fps with 0.2g BBs.  Outdoors, anything over 350-ish will fall into the DMR category and you'll be expected to maintain a minimum engagement distance of 20m or even 30m, which rather obviates the point of using a pistol.

 

Since you specifically asked for something for airsoft use, it'd be a rogue's trick to sell you anything more than ~350fps without making you aware of the issues.

 

Once I've been to my local site, I'll ask if they have any equipment to check the FPS before I use it. It's CQB, so I doubt I'll be able to use it anyway but I'll ask. 

[Druid799]

42 minutes ago, MPToReality said:

 

Once I've been to my local site, I'll ask if they have any equipment to check the FPS before I use it. It's CQB, so I doubt I'll be able to use it anyway but I'll ask. 

Put it this way bud If they don’t have a chrono it’s a bullshit site and you need to get out as fast as you can ! ALL sites should have chrono’s to check the players guns before the day starts ! 

[MPToReality]

20 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Put it this way bud If they don’t have a chrono it’s a bullshit site and you need to get out as fast as you can ! ALL sites should have chrono’s to check the players guns before the day starts ! 

 

Alright, I'll keep it in mind for my first game!

[Rogerborg]

Um, if you turn up with just that pistol, you may find yourself not playing at all unless you're also renting.

 

It should say somewhere on the box or manual how much energy that gun is putting out, either a fps number <=350fps with 0.2g, or a Joules figure <= 1.13J.

 

If it doesn't, the shop should be able to tell you what they sold you.  Any airsoft shop worth the name will also have a chrono where  you can find out for sure.

[MPToReality]

14 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Um, if you turn up with just that pistol, you may find yourself not playing at all unless you're also renting.

 

It should say somewhere on the box or manual how much energy that gun is putting out, either a fps number <=350fps with 0.2g, or a Joules figure <= 1.13J.

 

If it doesn't, the shop should be able to tell you what they sold you.  Any airsoft shop worth the name will also have a chrono where  you can find out for sure.

 

I'll be renting anyway, the site offers MP5's or AK74u's depending on availability. I just figured having someone check the gun in person would be a good idea. I picked the RIF up on holiday in the countryside, so I don't have the option of going back to the shop unfortunately. 

[Platoon Leader]

That is indeed a 6mm BB firing air pistol, I assume the shop you bought it from was a gunshop and the owner was an RFD?

[EDcase]

Since getting into airsoft a few years ago I thought it very strange that I could buy a 4.5mm METAL BB firing semi-auto air-rifle / pistol over the counter or even online just proving I'm 18+ but airsoft needed UKARA

 

You can keep that pistol for plinking in the garden or sell it on a second hand air weapon site.

[Asomodai]

A shop near me has a ASG P-07 Duty, which for some reason is classed as an Air pistol. As no one in store at the moment is licensed to sell one I cannot buy it at the moment. 

 

I wonder what the criteria are for something to be considered an air pistol above a airsoft weapon. The only difference I can see is that the CO2 bulbs arent installed into the mag, but the gun itself, but shouldnt be that because Airsoft revolvers CO2 bulbs are the same. 

 

The other thing is the P-07 Duty fires at around 380 FPS... Though I intend to get this down to below 350 FPS with a liberal application of sugru to cover the air nozzle, and a drill bit to make the hole much smaller. 

[RR01]

It really is about time the whole VCRA f**kup was looked at properly as regards airsoft weapons.  I've stopped airsoft now (way too old), but shoot air weapons at a local club.  I have a Sig Sauer MCX CO2 powered 0.177 air rifle that looks exactly like the real thing, but is far more lethal than an airsoft version of the same rifle (if there is one).  But the only stipulation on buying it is that I'm over 18.  But now I've stopped playing airsoft I can't legally buy a non-lethal airsoft version of the same thing (if there is one) unless it's 51% a bright colour.  That is really stupid and shows just how out of touch our MPs are when they drafted the legislation. Just how many people have been killed by being hit with an airsoft BB? Answer = zero.  Not zero for airguns or real guns though.

[koppel]

The various legislation regarding firearms/air weapons/ airsoft are not contiguous, they were written at different times by different people and there are large chasms of 'grey area' in between them. The vcra was typical of badly drafted Bliar era legislation.  The fact is, you would only find if grey can be made black & white once (and if) a case was presented before the courts, and it would be interpretation of the law as writ, that MAY set precedent. Until then, we don't know, nor does anybody else.