usable range of airsoft guns

[mimozine]

not sure how much tech changed since i last played, what are the usable ranges of aeg's and snipers these days? wanna set up some targets and see whats what.

 

thx

[ak2m4]

Ranges vary, sure someone will have some proper stats to give you. You're still limited to in-game FPS of 350 for AEG's and 500 for bolt snipers. There's been some some small developments in hop design over the years and you can now buy excellent quality steel tight bore barrels for peanuts.

[Sitting Duck]

from my humble noob understandings....

 

40m to 50m average

 

80m if you got it set REALLY well

 

100m very very few really get close to

(over 100m and think are talking more bollocks than me - that is going some I know)

[jcheeseright]

Pretty much the same as it's always been. 50-60m reasonably with a decent gun firing at <350, another 20 metres for a well set up gun shooting at ~500

 

Anyone who claims significantly more is talking shit.

[ak2m4]

Sounds about right, any further then you move into lob shot territory and then may as well be playing a game of Worms :-)

[Sitting Duck]

100 or so then they are talking in imperial ft no mtrs

 

or shooting downwards off the cliffs at Dover or something like that

 

though my m8 got a gun from JBBG and out range everybody - best gun evvvaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

[Aunty Pasty]

Bear in mind that most people measure their range like they measure their knob size.

[jcheeseright]

Bear in mind that most people measure their range like they measure their knob size.

 

it's only 4 inches, but it smells like a foot!

[Sitting Duck]

aye but I don't use it as a rule

 

not enough blood for both of us etc......

[Bullet]

With the right gun and the right ammo a sniper WILL do 100m.

[Dannn]

My modded g36 running 350 fps on .20 will hit a chest size target at 150' in nil wind 75% of the time.

On fully auto bursts I can drop bb's from above with some success at pushing 200' but that's pot luck doing a second or so burst

But that's not what I'm about...

Bog standard jg bar 10 apart from a modded nub to lift heavier ammo running 400 on .20's

I can shoot same chest size target out to 170 with .30's

90% of the time.

Distances are lazer measured in perfect conditions

[proffrink]

I think this has already been said, but 100m is basically unattainable in the UK. A lot of people look overseas where FPS limits can be higher for milsim ops and see people running HPA systems that will reach out that far and then think they can replicate that here. With a 350fps AEG even with a good hop you're probably not going over 60m. A 500fps sniper rifle with the right ammo and a good bucking? You might get close to 100m.

 

.30s, a good hop and an HPA system is really the only chance you stand of getting a consistent hit at 60m.

 

Ultimately though it doesn't matter. The sites are quite small here most of the time and 100m engagement distances are rare because any good site owner knows that's beyond the maximum effective range of what everyone is using.

[Snakeeyes75]

I think this has already been said, but 100m is basically unattainable in the UK. A lot of people look overseas where FPS limits can be higher for milsim ops and see people running HPA systems that will reach out that far and then think they can replicate that here. With a 350fps AEG even with a good hop you're probably not going over 60m. A 500fps sniper rifle with the right ammo and a good bucking? You might get close to 100m.

 

.30s, a good hop and an HPA system is really the only chance you stand of getting a consistent hit at 60m.

 

Ultimately though it doesn't matter. The sites are quite small here most of the time and 100m engagement distances are rare because any good site owner knows that's beyond the maximum effective range of what everyone is using.

 

Here's where the argument lies.... 100 meters IS achievable BUT.... Joule creep plays a massive part in it! Ask anyone with a decent Tanaka how far they can fire. My Gspec has been through several internal combinations until I've settled with what I have now (For the moment) but at one point it was firing .2's at 498fps and .43's at a whopping 400 fps. With a bit of over hop I was getting 90-100 meters measured but you're essentially talking about a gun that fires at just under 600 fps! Nowadays I'm happy with 70 meters with a 7:10 hit rate! My current chrono readings are 475/340 which is correct for the .43's

[Sitting Duck]

I refer to "range" to include accuracy where the gun/shooter's range is on target or pretty damn close

 

100m with good accuracy - most of the time is not the same getting a bb to reach 100m

the above is a very rare thing to achieve or come close to

 

if anybody can do that easily then I tip my hat sir

[Dannn]

Once I get my bar 10 hpa'd with all the other jazz that'll be going with it shooting at 500 fps ill get the lazer range finder out and get some real world measurements

[proffrink]

 

Here's where the argument lies.... 100 meters IS achievable BUT.... Joule creep plays a massive part in it! Ask anyone with a decent Tanaka how far they can fire. My Gspec has been through several internal combinations until I've settled with what I have now (For the moment) but at one point it was firing .2's at 498fps and .43's at a whopping 400 fps. With a bit of over hop I was getting 90-100 meters measured but you're essentially talking about a gun that fires at just under 600 fps! Nowadays I'm happy with 70 meters with a 7:10 hit rate! My current chrono readings are 475/340 which is correct for the .43's

Agreed. This is exactly why I think sites should make the effort to crono on the weight people will be using rather than .20s all the time.

[Guest PT247]

OT but seeing as we going there. I suffer no joule creep worth mentioning on my VSR. FPS is pretty much correct for weight of BB.

[proffrink]

Yeh, I can see that happening a lot of the time. My L96 doesn't move much at all, but my M249 does significantly.

[K@rl]

Agreed. This is exactly why I think sites should make the effort to crono on the weight people will be using rather than .20s all the time.

They use .20s because then they know the energy transmitted from the projectile. If people where permitted to use there own weight of bb for chrono test then they would need to work out the energy calculation for each possible weight.

If I used ur own ammo for the test it would be very easy to put .4+ in a mid cap. Shoot under 350fps then switch to .20/.25 when the game starts. This would potentially mean u put other players at risk especially if playing cqb where engagement distance are some time measured in inches.

.20 are used because this is the lowest weight most of us use so indicates the max velocity the weapon will shoot at.

I do think however that the hop units should be set to a minimum for the purpose of chrono test. I know what this would mean re setting it after but it's the only way to get a true reading. Especially if ur gun shoots at 349 fps.

[jcheeseright]

We're well off topic now but that's a player problem not a rules problem. Having a joule chart for all of the popular weights (or even ALL weights of BB) attached to the site chrono isn't a massive ask, if a player is thought to be attempting to cheat the system they could be asked to have ten of their BBs weighed before loading them into the magazine for chrono, although I agree that is a little heavy handed.

 

If someone wishes to cheat chrono, it's REALLY easy to do so.

[proffrink]

They use .20s because then they know the energy transmitted from the projectile. If people where permitted to use there own weight of bb for chrono test then they would need to work out the energy calculation for each possible weight.

If I used ur own ammo for the test it would be very easy to put .4+ in a mid cap. Shoot under 350fps then switch to .20/.25 when the game starts. This would potentially mean u put other players at risk especially if playing cqb where engagement distance are some time measured in inches.

.20 are used because this is the lowest weight most of us use so indicates the max velocity the weapon will shoot at.

I do think however that the hop units should be set to a minimum for the purpose of chrono test. I know what this would mean re setting it after but it's the only way to get a true reading. Especially if ur gun shoots at 349 fps.

Joule creep is a phenomenon caused my cronoing at .20 and capping the speed of the projectile rather than using the weight you would be for the game and calculating muzzle energy. They don't use .20s to crono with because it's accurate; they use it because it's quick and easy for people to understand (though if you ask me it actually confuses people more by making them inadvertently think they can use heavier weights to cheat the cronograph - see a inevitable thread that arises every month with someone asking if they can use .28s to bring their gun within site limits). If we had people cronoing their heaviest weight and getting the muzzle energy from that then even if they do switch to lighter BBs then the muzzle energy is never going to exceed what the crono'd with.

 

I don't quite understand what you're saying though as it seems you've got 'crono-cheating' with heavier weights and muzzle energy calculation muddled up. I won't go into it but Google it if you're unsure.

 

jcheese is right though. There's no easy solution beyond some sort of Joule chart and educating players. It's hard enough to get people to understand what '350fps' really means (i.e. a muzzle energy of around 1.15J) - let alone explaining Joule creep. Ultimately though there are people running around out there with sniper rifles firing the equivalent of 550fps because sites don't crono on the weight they'll be using - this is no fault of the player, but it is an issue. Not a big one, but it's there.

 

Really though we need a shift towards making people understand what muzzle energy is and throwing this fps nonsense out of the window. It's a tiny bit more of a strain on the beginner but it means readings will be far more accurate and everyone will pick it up in the same way they pick up how hop works. Like you say, jcheese, a chart like this attached to the crono is not a huge amount of effort.

[K@rl]

i would have thought that a .4 bb travelling at 350 fps has a higher muzzle energy than a .2 bb at 350fps.

There for by using a .4 for chrono @ 350 fps u would have a higher muzzle energy than a site with a limit of .2 @ 350 fps. And so "cheat" the chrono. This would then mean your gun was shooting hot when switching to .2 for in game action. I wasn't discussing the relation between speed mass and energy, merely people's desire to gain any "advantage" they can.

 

Please feel free to tell me if am wrong.

[proffrink]

You don't crono at 350fps - that's the point you're missing. You crono at 1.14J by calculating the muzzle energy from the speed and weight. 350fps with a .20g BB is around 1.14J. Want to use .30g? No problem, you use the chart and find what speed a .30g should be going if it's to have a muzzle energy of 1.14J; that's around 285fps (see below).

 

Edits for clarity (I hope)

Sniper rifle? Ok, if we crono 500fps on .20g we get 2.32J. Because of Joule creep, the liklihood that will stay at 2.32J when you switch to your .38g 'sniping BBs' is slim. You could now be shooting above 2.32J, and that's more than is allowed. This is because (and this is simplified to the max) air or propane or whatever propellant you're using has more time to transfer energy to the BB as it takes longer to travel down the barrel.

 

So what if we crono'd your gun with the .38g BBs you want to use? Well, we need to aim for 2.32J; about 360-365fps. Now you're going to always be shooting at 2.32J - no creep. If there's any creep at all from switching down on weights then it'll be negative, so you might end up shooting at 2.20J or less.

 

[K@rl]

u have just confirmed that I am right. Because a .4 @ 350 fps will be <1.14j it will infect be over 2j.

 

I never mentioned creep. Wasn't the basis of my point. By switching down a weight of being it will increase the fps. Because the energy transferred to the projectile from the piston will be the same.

[Snakeeyes75]

Well, I sem to have turned this thread in to a JC debate, sorry about that! One thing I have to add, a gun firing at say 550fps on .2's doesn't really gain any extra distance. 600 fps and you start seeing a bit of an increase. I've often wondered what the fps of a BB would be at 25 meter mark (In other words, how much force is lost in the first 20-25 meters). Having a 25/30 meter "ME" helps more than anything. Oh yeah, do people not realize that 1 yard is not the same as 1 meter? I now have a Hawke optics Laser range finder and even in the video review they talk about yards, it measures ONLY in Meters!