G&G Fire Hawk / FireHawk HC05 DSG

[Sitting Duck]

Got one of these from LWA today - cheers chaps for not selling it or sending me a stock one instead.....

 

G&G say 29rps and it will perform with a 7.4v like a 11.1v lipo

 

Well that 29rps must be with a 11.1v I reckon coz been doing a quick chrono and it hits about 21-22 with a fresh 7.4v lipo

 

OK quick review - mods feel free to move this but posted here as it is "news" but deffo not good news imho

 

Gets her out of box, small tamiya on there - hmmm ok was expecting maybe deans or mini-deans

Also Standard G&G sticker on gearbox - not perhaps a Top Tech sticker ???

Hmmm was expect a TT sticker as it is supposed to have a DSG & ceramic bearings in there, plus probably a m160+ spring to compensate for the half stroke from the DSG......

 

Connects a fresh 7.4v lipo switches to semi - goes full auto - WTF ?????

messes about with selector - but can't get her to fire semi at all - great got a friggin lemon selector switch

Then checks the instructions afterwards in typical bloke style.....

 

NO SEMI AUTO MODE ON HC05 !!!!

 

Oh that is just dandy - design a CQB gun that don't do semi when often up close you have to switch to semi only !!!

 

Also was expecting better than stock wiring and perhaps a mosfet in there

didn't appear to have fet in there but didn't look ultra hard coz just wanted to see how quick she fires then......

 

WTF on the chrono with a decent mag - 21rps, try again hhhmmmm 20.5rps - that is crap

 

OK dry fire test against the AK12 I did - yup sounds similar but even with a used 7.4v I'd give the AK12 the edge

That beefy motor AK12 hits 24.8rps on fresh 7.4v

Which means my M4 mag ain't misfeeding to give low results - she is hitting about 20 to 21 max on a 7.4v

 

Soz but that is crap to me and not what I was expecting or lead to believe from the hype.................

 

OK very very fresh 11.1v lipo kicking out about 12.3v test:

 

33 to 35rps and about 290 to 300fps - did about 4 or 5 bursts on 11.1v but as I think it ain't got a fet in there ain't gonna go real nutz coz the poor trigger may decide to have a bigger meltdown than some teenage drama queen not getting their own way........

 

So at £155 or £180 rrp from LWA - they only had 3 and they are all gone yesterday afternoon

Is it worth it ???????????

 

out of the box - NO - mainly coz no semi but also not that great rof for a DSG imho

 

With tweaks - I think uhmm well uhmm not sure now I've ripped her wide open and seen not able to get cut off/semi working

it must be pulling some beefy motor if it is a DSG and beefy spring, plus does have ceramic bearings in there they ain't cheap either.....

Will need a rewire and fet but then she should safely be able to use it at 40+ on 11.1v or 26 on 7.4v

Still can't see it hitting 29rps on 7.4v even with 16awg deans etc......

well "maybe" if the wires are soldered to motor and high performance/fresh of charge mofo 7.4v battery

but that is after a rewire and deans and is really really doing all you can for max contact and zero resistance

 

Also worth noting that G&G could have totally ripped off Seigtek DSG - RiotSC was not approached by G&G

and it seems to be a clone of his gears he said

 

Note the 3 holes on each side of gear - not SHS type or Modify's either

if you look at the launch poster of the HC05 it shows a DSG exactly like the above pic

So not impressed that G&G "could" have ripped off Seigtek DSG - RiotSC's design

 

Even less impressed that a DSG performs - well not that great and not much better than a tweaked SSG

AK12 is still on 18:1 but mega beefy motor - but no not that stupid to put 11.1v and get Pre Engagement

But a fairly decent 12:1 shortstroke SSG would wipe the floor with the HC05 out of the box

(must be like a 18:1 DSG gearing me thinks not any higher speed DSG)

 

So yeah not quite as good performing as we are lead to think and NO SEMI - jeez that is dumb

 

ahhh well a couple of pics: soz if they are a bit big, can't be ar$ed (like G&G's tech dept can't be ar$ed to do it properly)

 

 

and the instructions when you find you not got semi ffs

 

[sp00n]

Just out of interest whats the "C" rating of your lipo mate? it could be that your battery isnt able to crank enough power out ... then again it might be you battery is ok, and its all just marketing hype

 

seriously though, no semi .... that's bad .... kinda makes the gun seem pointless (from my perspective)

 

i really wanted one as well

[n1ckh]

Wtf ??

 

Dude that is such a rip off, I expect better from G&G, you'd be better off with a pea shooter

[Sitting Duck]

The 2 batteries I used on HC05 (11.1v has a xt60 but with small tamiya adapter)

 

the 7.4v used was a Turnigy Nano Tech 25c-50c - too long for crane stock dual nunchuck not brill but ok for AK's under the top cover

 

http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__17289__Turnigy_nano_tech_1300mah_2S_25_50C_Lipo_AIRSOFT_Pack.html

 

11.1v 25c 2200mah Zippy Compact block battery:

 

http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__21346__ZIPPY_Compact_2200mAh_3S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

 

and the 7.4v performs ok on other guns

the 11.1v was a bit fresh off charge

and for what its worth - take a 7.4v rof & give it 50% - the extra cell of course = expected rof on 11.1v

 

hence if you get 20 on 7.4v you "should" get 30-ish on 11.1v or a rough idea of what to expect

so I think the 7.4v wasn't that far behind what it should be

 

First impressions - should of just remade the inital Top Tech Fire Hawk's imho

[sp00n]

Yeah that should be more then enough, but only getting 20 - 21 rps is poor for a gun that "should" give 29rps

 

still no semi ... i still cannot work out why they didn't include it ... unless its some mechanical reason

[M_P]

Wtf ??

Dude that is such a rip off, I expect better from G&G, you'd be better off with a pea shooter

All manufacturers have bad ones and lemons, probably nothing more than that. We all know how good g&g stuff tends to be and most people appear to rate the firehawks in particular very highly so doesn't look to be the norm

[Sitting Duck]

All manufacturers have bad ones and lemons, probably nothing more than that. We all know how good g&g stuff tends to be and most people appear to rate the firehawks in particular very highly so doesn't look to be the norm

 

This is a bad Fire Hawk and I don't think it is a lemon on its own

LWA sold the other 2 - yes I was considering getting another but glad I didn't atm

 

it would be interesting to see where or if the other owners post their findings before I really slate it

 

But some DSG builds only hit 35 - somebody put a dual sector fire hawk on you tube and was quite pleased with it but

was hitting a lowish 260fps !!! (soz but that is mega pi$$ poor crap performance on 11.1v)

And seen on ACM a 38rps steady build which I presume is on 11.1v

 

To me I think the whole DSG crap is over rated - if you don't hit 40+ why bother ?

a SSG short stroked with say m120 will perform quite well and ain't gonna need a mofo spring/spacers to get a half stroke up to the ooomphhhh

 

To be honest I was erghing n uhmming about bothering with a DSG build but reckon I will shelve my own

and go with a short stroke hi rate of fire on hi speed gears

or

I might say wtf and have a go - probably break very very quickly but surely can't be any less performing than this FH

(stop calling me Shirley)

 

I kind of was expecting a bit higher end build - wires fet (that melts but at least wired for fet)

was lead to think this bitch will really kick ar$e on 7.4v at near 30 - but strongly feel owner needs to finish job themselves

and go the whole bloomin hog or rewire/deans/fet etc..... - think motor might be a good one if it pulling higher spring

but normal pistol grip not G26 one like Top Tech ones had at launch

 

Now it might be a bit qwerky - or a possible bit lemony so to speak

but I gotta go to work soon and only had a very quick blast test with it

yes could try deans n stuff - it might but doubt have a fet tucked away in stock tube

 

But just giving you a heads up at very least about no semi - full auto only out of box

(probably they didn't fit the cut off lever in there that's all - hope dsg has the "lugs" to operate if you fitted lever)

so think carefully before you scramble and think of selling off some stuff to get one

 

It ain't quite what it appears or how you are lead to think is what I'm saying

(G&G crafty sods with first batch of FH's with TT internals but then went stock CM - well slower 22:1 gears I found in my stock FH)

 

Started to crack her open and has a "Powerful" G&G motor in there - well so they say

it is still a ferrite motor not a neodym - in fact same motor as fitted to "normal" FireHawk

 

see this thread/pic for details - http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/23894-g-g-firehawk-low-rof/page-2#entry179124

 

yup a bit more torquey perhaps than stock but not ultra torquey imho and deffo not super duper quick

This was fitted to stock FH with 22:1 gears and that is why the main subsequent batches of FH's were slower than the first Top Tech ones

 

UPDATE - found the reason why a std FireHawk fires slower than the first TopTech launch ones

G&G fitted a 8 tooth bevel gear in there instead of the normal 10 teeth bevel

hence your actual ratio of aprox 18.65:1 goes up 20% to about 22.38:1 !!!!

So that is why the normal FireHawks were not firing as fast as the TopTech ones - mystery solved

f*ck knows why they did that - must be the same designer who built the dsg FH with no semi ???

(a good lesson kids - don't do drugs at work !!! )

 

 

Now gotta consider if I rip her right open and maybe install the possible missing cut off lever, rewire & fit a fet ???

 

Yeah - wtf lets 'ave some......

[Sitting Duck]

Well the gearbox is a bit crap tbh...

They fitted 9mm ceramic bearings but not all the same ones...

 

Sector & Spur/middle gear have 9mm outer & 5mm inner race ceramics

Bevel gear though 9mm outer & 3mm inner race

 

So in effect the sector/spur gears have thicker but not so common 5mm shafts

Bevel - average bevel gear I suppose 3mm shaft

 

Gear Ratio is 18:1 no mega spring spacers

but jeez that spring (was at rest btw coz released AR latch) is a mofo

 

Also all steel teeth & strengthen piston - std G&G piston head & plastic white cylinder head used in normal CM's

seals not bad but is new with say 250 300 rounds through it - could/should be a tad better

But AOE wasn't done either - just like CM's - yup 2nd tooth removed but that was it, maybe usual 2-4mm sorbo needed

Nozzle - looked bog standard CM non o-ring nozzle - deffo could be a lot better

 

Ah yes no cut off lever - ok should be able to put in one...

NOPE - dual sector does NOT have any cam lift point(s) on there at all

Great - coz they are 5mm shafts and 9mm outer rim bearings can't fit a SHS Dual Sector either

(well I could I guess if I had say normal 9mm/3mm bearings but only got up to 8mm)

 

On top of that the finish sector shimmed tight - ok got that a bit better but it snags at same point

(deffo sector - well 99% it is sector with bad finish - very crap)

but even after picking through all teeth on both sector/spur and smoothing over the back of sector

coz it was that roughly cut finished still seems to snag/bind a little it seems - jeez this was really just chucked together

Still haven't fully got it turning 101% smooth as I want to see it

 

Cylinder - seemed to have grabbed a normal CM ported cylinder - ooh that ain't quite right and then took a Black n Decker to it to drill a 5mm hole as well

(G&G's diy modding of drilling the hole not mine btw)

 

Piston Spring Guide with bearing - this seemed to loose at the end and not fully tight or screwed together

 

All in all a very pi$$ poor box - way below what I was hoping, the No semi you are kind of stuck with

possible options could be a Seigtek DSG or perhaps say a Kong II burst wizard thingy fet but not ideal to get a quick change from full to semi

plus all this extra cost and hassle when G&G should of done their homework better in the first place

 

Seriously chaps - you ain't missing much at atm - this is not a great gun from G&G like we was told/hoping for atm

they need to revise a lot of these issues - better quality gear/finishing & give us the semi as well ffs

 

GEARBOX WITH DIFFERENT SIZE BEARINGS....

 

 

 

CRAP AOE & DIY PORTING OF CYLINDER

 

 

 

DSG STILL SNAGGING ON SPUR, SOMETHING IS STILL SHARP AND CRAP

PLUS THE SPRING BEARING GUIDE THAT ISN'T FULLY SECURED TOGETHER

 

 

 

Not one of their best bits of AEG building and really should charged a bit more to put it together properly

 

WITH SEMI AUTO !!!!

 

use SHS DSG ffs if you don't want to use Seigtek's - but c'mon this is really a bit of a let down I feel

(warranty void but wtf at least I know exactly why no semi & some other stuff)

 

There is something deffo wrong with them gears and snagging/binding on sector/spur

holding box together with just those 2 gears in there you get to a point and they snag

keep going at this snag point and the very top of box starts to open/seperate then closes back after snag point

the gears finish is like some really blunt cutting tool or more like roughly punched/cut out - hence me trying to file

and try to reduce the rough snagging finish.

It is either a bad - no very f*cking bad finish like I think or the shafts/gears are bent perhaps - jeez this is crap

 

Never experienced stuff this bad before even on a crappy cheapo set of gears

and the ceramics are quite deep needing very very few special shims on there so can't just keep adding shims

(well they are bigger shims 5mm hole that I don't have and M5 washers are way way too fat)

The ceramic bearings - well they ain't like them super duper Modify ones that seem to spin forever

Actually had ordinary 8mm bearings spin better/longer but the ceramics are supposed to be much stronger.

(well like I said not impressed with a not so long spin test on them)

 

tired and fed up - will have a rethink - might contact G&G or just grab a normal box, radius it up fit SHS DSG + 16:1 bevel/spur

not gonna be so great but shouldn't snag or bind and at least I might have a semi auto on that build.....

 

Or other option I'm seriously considering is very hi-speed gears, short stroke, m125 spring, mega beefy motor and see if I can get a good deal over 30rps on 7.4v - sod G&G's lemony DSG build

 

Unsure SHS Short Stroke SSG ultra hi-speed or SHS DSG option and have a semi at last - really don't know atm

Have ordered up some 9mm bearings with 3mm centre's for now - yeah I know should be using bushings

But couldn't easily find good 9mm bushings locally to arrive asap so I can put this pile of crap back together with other gears

(got the bevel 9mm ceramic with 3mm centre to use or move to sector gear I guess or leave on bevel as it turns the most)

 

Like to think I got a lemon - but if you was thinking about the HC05 - yeah just keep thinking for now, don't rush out to buy one

 

I'm done for now

 

S D

[sp00n]

i know why it has no semi, and it may explain a few other oddities, its way round the patient that siegetek hold, so they can sell them in america, as siegetek hold the dual sector gear patient there.

 

still that is quite shocking on the porting and the gear binding.

 

and like you said where is the G26 pistol grip from the promotional pics?

 

it really is a half arsed, cut corners, and bodged attempt at what could be and should be a great gun

[Sitting Duck]

Yeah a very half ar$ed release, could of - should of been so much better

They could of approached/negotiated with Seigtek and could of been a great endorsement for both companies

or cheaper/riskier to go with Modify or SHS but nope they do their own

 

Was told as they launched the Fire Hawk they were gonna make a hi-speed one around Nov '14 at some youtube promo

6 months later and they really ballsed it up, the quality of all the extra new parts is just $hit

 

I'm bitterly dissapointed - me a major G&G fan/owner, that there was no mention of losing semi-auto

yeah some guns like M249's may not have semi - but a CQB FH with no semi - jeeeezzzzz

Plus you can't make it semi easily as I shockingly discovered and due to the spur/sector having 5mm shaft gears

I'm f*cked and gotta remove these larger ceramic bearings - pity they didn't fit 9mm/3mm bearings like on bevel gear

(yes stronger 5mm shaft gears - but the owner is f*cked if they need replacing with other perhaps better gears)

 

I'm no expert but DSG's like other higher speed guns do tend to wear quicker shall we say

So even if you get a good one - if I got a very bad lemon, at some point the repair/replacement of gears may arise

 

If anybody got a good one - one guy was over the moon with it - yeah without semi and not that great rof on DSG ?

If they got a good one then hope it lasts a while is all I can say

 

In the meantime - G&G need to do a bit of rethinking/quality control coz their new super duper bits of teching is crap

 

I'm gonna be left with some poor G&G DSG gears & 2/3rds of the super ceramic bearings in my junk box

Yeah not such a great purchase - yes it could be a one off lemon but pics shows the pi$$ poor engineering

Would like to think it was early beta or prototype perhaps - but should of just waited and got it right before releasing it

 

Cheers to LWA - for getting it so quick & they did publish my "brief" and honest review though

 

Hope my 9mm bearings arrive soon, coz reckon it was Spur gear that was really boned, so might be able to use the G&G DSG

plus some other tweaks & ideas that might just work - itching to get it back together now......

[Sitting Duck]

interesting though G&G did a GC16 MOD0 HC05 - 40rps on 11.1v lipo

 

http://www.guay2.com/web/manual/CM16_MOD0_manual.pdf

(you might need to save it coz it seems to display better once saved on pc)

 

link is dead due to G&G updating their guay2.com or something

https://101techusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CM16_MOD0_manual.pdf

but seems rather rare and out of stock and lower performance perhaps

BUT it does have SEMI on a 40rps setup

 

My guess it was yet another bad idea that might not have performed very well

dunno if it had DSG but feel maybe higher speed short stroke gear set

 

Also there are variations of other High Cycle stuff usually for German market with very low fps

about 234fps or 0.5j on auto CQB stuff, so lower springs = higher fps but watch out for PME

 

https://www.ram-shop24.de/de/G26-High-Cycle--G-G-.html

 

and they made a HC MP5 or G&G PM5 A4 High Cycle

(but was a blowback gearbox - think that is asking for trouble but hey G&G know what they are doing - NOT)

 

9mm SHS Bearimgs arrived - fitted after a little file - damn they were tight fit

Shimmed - located a better v2 spring guide, quite happy but now messing about with piston & weights atm

 

Current status

 

Able to still use G&G DSG - think the spur gear was the worst of the 2 binding/snagging, something is bad on gear finish

Anyway, moved ceramic 9mm/3mm bearing up to spur gear fitted a pair of SHS 9mm bearings to bevel gear.

Then used a SHS bevel & spur gear - shimmed nicely and reckon she runs really well and might work ok......

 

Slightly stronger (smidge heavier) piston all metal teeth - 2nd tooth removed already & shaved down 3rd for AOE

Also removed last 8 unused teeth & swiss cheesed on top but left sides - nice n tidy but not a great deal lighter

wasn't happy with lightish stock piston head's seal - was never as good as alloy but think I found another plastic/POM one

Probably dropping bearings from piston head too as got them in spring guide....

Complete piston weight is about 21.5gms fully assembled - no bearings but has plastic spacer in piston instead now

Stock piston with bearings was about 27.5gms so 6gms saved on a heavier hopefully more robust piston even with cheesing

(worked out I could remove some of the piston's guide rails that remain in cylinder as stroke is 8 teeth not full 16 teeth stroke)

 

Cylinder head - found a double o-ring plastic with good-ish seal - hopefully a few wraps of tape will make it perfect

had an ali one but didn't sit well in box when closed up - jeez nothing but more pi$$balling about with this mofo

As soon as I get one thing sorted what is going back in there - yet another thing crops up........

 

Now the latest one is the friggin' AR latch - G&G's one is much chubbier of fatter and along with thicker wire I want to use

it is rubbing slightly against the thicker wire that just squeezes in the wiring channel - there is a gap near AR and yup

that is where it slightly rubs against the AR latch - restricting it moving and I suppose over time/shots may rub & perhaps

wear on insulation - a possible short - jeezzzz ffs n all that....

Found a slightly thinner AR latch that just about clears the wire but still may need to file/grind the channel a tiny bit to be sure

 

So yeah its taking its time I know - I sort that, then discover another possible issue with my mofo rebuild

So I take time out and rethink my plan & options coz I wanna make sure she runs much better/faster than before

Hopefully sorted most of the box & then get me soldering iron ready for wiring up a fet & reassemble at last.....

 

LOL - for a "wonderful" review of this gun - actually it is a toned down 0.5j version for german market:

 

 

I fell off my chair when they summed up about the quality gears ffs

 

and here is G&G giving a preview of this gearbox option back in Jan: (yeah I wouldn't bother chaps)

 

[Sitting Duck]

Minor update - jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Got box back together a few days ago - finally, and what a git that mofo spring is

for those that don't know - DSG's use a much stronger spring almost double as piston is half stroked

so that spring is probably say a m170-180 - yeah that is "fun"

imagine your first box you opened and the joy you had closing it back up......

now multiply that by about 4..........

 

It is like trying to put back a baby in the delivery room - lots of screaming, sweating & swearing

the times the guide & spring shot across the room - jeez think I need my mask & goggles for this

 

I'm not joking - like about 10+ attempts maybe more, couple of yes - oh no the nozzle or trigger spring has unhooked

 

Well I got it back together but then noticed the trigger was sticking - I can feel that sometimes the trigger releases

but I can feel the switch hasn't come back and is binding or sticking - GREAT JUST F*$KING GREAT !!!!!

 

only thing I hardly touched so can't work out why - resoldered the fet signal wires - but one went straight on

and the other was fine but just a smidge more solder added - so doubt if I welded/melted the plastic or it misformed from heat

All the same - somehow the switch assembly is pinched, misaligned or something and she is sticking ON now n then

 

Gutted doesn't even begin to cut it. Suffice to say the thought of opening her back up and I have had some more important things

(Work, Life, Wife moaning about toy guns, no I had to get on with other stuff so just left it a few days)

 

Oh well now gotta open it all back up - kaboom, check, smooth or replace switch and try to gets this baby back where it came from

My own view is sod these DSG's even more now - will deffo just short stroke for higher rof's and get similar results without the grief

[Sitting Duck]

OK she is back together - but a little tiny bit screatchy, hmmmm
my guess that sector is still a bit crap - or my bevel is a little low but thinks not
reckon sector is maybe a little tight or angle of motor perhaps.......
(forgot to take pic of how bad the two halves of box meet at bottom where motor goes - jeez its crap & grip can wobble quite a bit)

anyway - just under 27rps now fetted & rewired - probably 27 as I got 3 sets of deans on there
I just plugged in a rough mosfet for quick testing - I will tidy her up later but just wanted to fire some crap off

27rps & 311.6fps on stock motor & 7.4v lipo - which means it could hit 40rps on a 11.1v perhaps
not absolutely brilliant - kinda hoping for 30 on 7.4v but this is still a ferrite motor which despite the label ain't that advanced imho
still not ultra impressed with DSG and certainly not with this HC05 FireHawk quality......

anyway some pics:

my first cheesy piston:



The gearbox with 9/5mm sector ceramic, the smaller 9/3mm spur ceramic moved up from bevel & SHS 9/3mm bearing:



A very rough thrown together test station - don't laugh it ain't finished yet:



and the first lot of results on a 7.4v with stock "advanced ferrite" motor:



38.77rof on 11.1v lipo - now where's that mofo motor.....

Ahhhh crap - missus said that enough - in other words if its pi$$ing her off then

it is sure as hell must be pi$$ing my neighbours off - so maybe leave until they out at work

(personally think relaxing in ya garden ain't complete unless you are firing off loads of bb's - but hey ho)

 

The other step to maybe get around the no semi is to try out a King Kong II which is supposed to be a 3034

wired in as opposed to plugged in - then set burst mode to single - manual or instructions seem to have loads

of options and they say easy to flip to burst/auto.....

 

Ahhhh but forget that switching bit.......

 

Install Kong and basic 3034 fet for full auto.....

Then both wired up but just a small switch to toggle the signal wires to either:

Kong on single shot burst

or

3034 for full auto.......

 

Could work but unsure about any spikes from other fet - though my own crude diy has TVS diode

and maybe kong has one in too - though the circuit is to prevent spikes flowing back to other end of fet

But hey - wtf it might work, but that is for later $hits n giggles testing.....

 

ATM - forget DSG crap and really don't bother with HC05, it is crap tbh

get a normal FH/M4 Stubby or AK74 or G36c and just do a mild say 16:1 or 14:1 gearset build, short stroke if needed

easily get 25-30 on 7.4v if done properly and not have springs flying all over the place or risk having ya eyes pulled out

[cyrexx]

Have you considered changing the motor? I ran a DSG 18:1 with a Lonex A2 and was getting 40+ RPS. on an 11.1. Another personal suggestion would be to get a bigger battery 4000+ mAh 40+C, it'll suffer from voltage sag.

 

On anther note, 310 fps on a dsg is an M150 spring, If I ever have to deal with springs M150 or higher I get a friend to help or it just ends up like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SaZ2coQtz4

[Sitting Duck]

I have a couple of neo-dym motors to try in next 24hrs when peeps are at work

I know I have a SHS high torque but feel that a Big Dragon M160 may be the one to unleash this better

(very impressed with the 160 both in speed & grunt in normal builds over other hi speed and torque motors)

admit no where near them Satan motors but talking £30 for motor not £50 - £75 for top/higher end guns - my teching skills is still nooby

but this blue advanced motor is ferrite - black magnets and is same stock one fitted to std FH - not cracked my Top Tech one open yet

but std FH runs slower than earlier one - 23.5:1 gears and this motor

 

Big Dragon M160 in AK12 was hitting nearly 25 on 7.4v on stock 18:1 gears @ 350+, so look forward as to what it can do in here

 

I didn't wanna keep pi$$ing them off if relaxing in their garden - this thing is loud but now more rapidly loud

so will do more tests later in morning or early afternoon

 

I don't know the exact spring but would of thought it a bit more than m150 as though it is being pulled back half the distance on 8 teeth

the first half doesn't compress the spring quite like the last half compresses it under a greater strain/load maybe

 

i thought in general you look to double the basic mxxx rating - in this case m85 - m90 for a 300 - 310 setup

trust me this was a mother f*cker spring to get in on my own - really came very close to giving up

most use around m160/170 on acm but even so it could be hitting a bit more - better but not brilliant cylinder head seal perhaps

(just cheap used plastic double o-ring cylinder head with ptfe on it but still better than stock, lost a tiny bit coz AOE too)

 

and yes that video was me at least 10 - 15 times maybe more....

Once I tried again after the cylinder/piston tried to launch into outer space again

like one of them cartoons with a bump that gets whacked and then the bump moves to another place under carpet etc....

anyway finally got it to close up - phew, blew down nozzle - wow good seal it seems, lets see it move yeah that is nice....

Then the nozzle came away from head as it became obvious that when it "jumped" - the nozzle came out of tappet plate

but I didn't notice when I was delighted I finally closed her up - yeah mega joy turns to despair.....

 

Another was on final closing the f*cking trigger decides it is having second thoughts and partly pops out of place

no real way to pop trigger spring in it seemed - jeez mofo bastid G&G pile of crap DSG etc.....

 

Then finally on about attempt 15 it closes up but switch sticks a bit - just f*cking great and so I left it a few days

So today got a chance to bust it open - bust open being a very good word.

Remove switch, swing away from box and light file on main housing, keeping bits away from box now all greased up

the contacts operate but not too strongly - both sides of contacts moving but not so tightly....

The plunger part of switch filed and sanded a little more, reassemble and press quite firmly to ensure she don't catch

gearbox case on, no spring or cylinder and really pressing hard down on box the switch don't catch or bind/pinched....

OK now I will try and reassemble once again.....

 

Big deep breaths, a few prayers and about attempt #4 she kinda goes in, still a little wiggle bit here n there....

Go on, go on please just close fully, pretty please, CLIP - thank you thank you thank you.....

Now the fun bit of holding it together whilst you turn the bloody thing over to insert screws - yup made it so far

finally after most of the screws are nearly in box I can breathe and hope - yup trigger is working.....

Me always panic - did that piston jump of its track - is that really bang in line or did she jump off tracks ????

(I ain't bloody opening her up to see now after all this crap - she can shred and I will fit a SSG in there)

 

With all the crap of closing her up and against the so called improvements I personally think DSG's are over rated

 

Think it really stands for:

 

Dis $hitty Gearbox

[Sitting Duck]

Final test on neo motor

 

Soz chaps I'm quitting whilst ahead - not gonna try 11.1v - piston was about 22.2gms

and not gonna risk PE trying to show off 55 - 60.....

besides she is starting to struggle feeding - did put o-ring on barrel/hop coz bit of play

(no spring on hop up so thought I'd try o-ring method but hardly fed with than on)

 

So yeah nearly doubled the stock HC05 on 7.4v - 21-22rps and well over the 29rps on 11.1v it says on box

so calling it a day on pushing her - I've broke plenty of guns doing that already......

 

40.61rps - did get 40.78 but wtf - its over 40 on a 7.4v !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

This is still quite a bit of work to get here - the G&G box has been well muller'd to get thicker wires in there

(I mean well muller'd - the file rarely left my hand it seemed at times)

 

AR latch changed to thinner Element AR latch to avoid it snagging

Also Element Bearing Spring Guide coz G&G's one was not very secure

SHS Red M4 nozzle single o-ring not double o-ring version

Swiss Cheese - my first piston trying to get her light as possible - lots of weighing n crap

Trying to get her to shim as best as possible - took yonks and still not perfectly totally screech free imho

(alas I do not have a thinner 5mm shim for sector gear is where it might be)

 

One thing I did learn was to check EVERYTHING when rebuilding the box - sounds obvious

I checked and found the cheese piston was binding - sanded sides of piston and slipped smoothly in the runners

AR latch a little sticky but sorted that, certain cylinder heads didn't fit perfectly - used a JG v3 one with double ring & tape

Piston & piston head kept as light as possible without losing strength, new better spring guide etc......

BUT I failed to check the switch which I hardly touched - kept sticking and so had to open her up again - lesson learnt

Yeah - that is unlikely to happen again - but along with all checking & using the file again and again

I fully understand how you can't really rush stuff if you want to do it properly or as best as I could in my case.......

 

For the record I will say that the G&G DSG was on a 18:1 or maybe 18.5:1 gear setup

I installed a bevel & spur from a SHS 16:1 or 16.5:1 gear set so this allowed an aproximate 10% increase perhaps

(SHS DSG's are designed to work with 18:1 and/or 16:1 - possible tiny smidge more "lash" in spur/sector teeth engangement)

 

So not quite as super duper brilliant as it first seems - maybe 37-ish if used a 18:1 gear set I guess on 7.4v

All the same - I think the Big Dragon M160 motor is a bloody good cheap neo motor.

I will be trying out some others maybe but for now the BD M160 is pretty damn good

(do not sue me if it busts your gun though - but gives good grunt & speed without spending a fortune £30/$45)

 

A massive mega fanx 1,000,000 to all people who helped and posted hints/tips/tricks on various forums

All of which meant this humble noob could learn from their wisdom and time taken to pass on this knowledge to others....

Too too many to list but thanks to all of you, LWA for getting these in & I guess G&G for doing it not quite as well as it could be

[Sitting Duck]

Minor small update...........

(well small update from me)

 

Fitted the King Kong 2 burst wizard mosfet - I'm impressed

Finally got semi - good old single shot back, took a bit of messing about with settings

Yeah it took a little while to figure out and get the hang of it but kinda made sense in the end

(Thank f*ck they got a reset to default option coz screwed it up a couple of times and don't know wtf I was altering but got all sorts of crap)

 

She is firing one shot very well - but due to ooomph reqired she don't like 25c 7.4v's to fire on single

needs 30c or above to work properly on semi or she only part compresses spring/precocks

(had a go at a few settings in #7 but had to settle for 30c battery)

 

Good thing is it can be used for close up engagements but must remember to release trigger after single shot

or she full auto's @ 40rps - mind you could be handy for reminding non-hit takers

(delay time can be adjusted but seems about right on default)

 

Pity G&G dropped semi and had to use this mofo for single shot

 

Yes it is a fet - IRL3034 and is wired in, clipped the small tamiya and replaced with deans, then fitted the trigger signal wire

It has loads of features - once you get your head round the programming.

All I did was change the burst option #2 from default 3 to 1 single shot

then adjust the timings in option #7 - had to go to 18 but got here to fire single very nicely at last

 

Cheers to Airsoftworld - they sell these and on some guns you get crazy offer to buy one of these at under £10

You would be mad not to take them up on this offer - even if like me you had it in ya spares box for a while

It does seem to work, but does need tweaking especially if you change to different batteries on tweaked guns

unsure if everybody will benefit from it at full price of £35 aprox but all the same if you grab it at £9:95 offer it will be worth it in my book

 

Finally finished it all, no longer the VS02 stock, now has a fixed stubby stock on there

inside is the KKII burst fet and a 2200mah 7.4v block type lipo 30c atm, but looking about for max capacity/burst options

[marcruss]

i would send it back if its not shooting semi as its designed as a cqb gun ,what good is it if not semi....it should do both

[Sitting Duck]

i would send it back if its not shooting semi as its designed as a cqb gun ,what good is it if not semi....it should do both

 

 

It does - now, but this time it is put back together a little better and shooting nearly twice as fast, and not such a joke DSG ROF

 

Yeah - after I ripped it to bits - no warranty and no rights coz manual says no semi.....

 

but got it working better with a semi via the Kong wizard fet

besides if she does crap out I'd swap the last lot of bearings around again, fit in the SHS DSG & cut off lever I have

(but won't bother to fit in a std FH or AK74 I was thinking of doing coz to me DSG is a bit over rated)

 

The review was to inform potential buyers of it not quite being what it is supposed to be plus the not so great quality

(though I reckon I had an early rough thrown together models - but still no semi)

 

Not first time G&G have tucked up FH owners - the first inital ones were Top Tech internals with a much higher rof

Hard to tell but if the FH in your sig has the normal CM grip on it then you have the slower std FH with bearings & a 30% slower 23.5:1 gear set

(all other CM's have a faster 18:1 gear set in there)

 

Are you sending your FH back ???

 

As said - after all the fun n games - DSG to me is way overated my AK12 was hitting nearly 25 on 18:1 gears & 7.4v full stroke piston

and that was/is a plastic gearbox using crappy SRC bits n bobs. double fires on more juice but 24.8rps is plenty for giggles

 

put together a higher speed gear set and 30+ can be obtained on 7.4v = 45ish on 11.1v for about £50

(buy hot gun with m120 - don't get spring downgraded, short stroke 2 teeth on say 13:1 set - neo motor/fet etc - good speed for most longer barrels)

[AKA_Grimz]

Thanks for posting. I didn't realise the DSG version has no semi auto function. I'd got a dsg g&g gearbox off ebay and thought I had an issue with my selector switch. 

 

Your post saved me some time. Cheers! 

[Steveocee]

What an epic read and massive amount of work that you out into this. Great read and great write up in each step.

[Druid799]

The duck does do good reviews .👍

[Sitting Duck]

On 28/02/2019 at 18:19, AKA_Grimz said:

Thanks for posting. I didn't realise the DSG version has no semi auto function. I'd got a dsg g&g gearbox off ebay and thought I had an issue with my selector switch. 

 

Your post saved me some time. Cheers! 

 

On 02/03/2019 at 12:26, Steveocee said:

What an epic read and massive amount of work that you out into this. Great read and great write up in each step.

 

The only correction to all that crap is try NOT to buy a Big Dragon M160 motor

Yes it is fast as f*ck but draws way too much - it is a cheap fast high speed motor

I'd say a smidge quicker than SHS High Speed - again try to avoid High Speed Motors

(they drain you battery very quickly and generate more heat)

 

The Big Dragon I originally thought was the dogz nutz but eventually too much heat long term

will lead to bearings in motor armature itself crapping out (trust me)

 

A "balanced" 27~30k motor like along the lines of SHS HT - but I've been away a while so unsure on any new stuff

but around that spec

 

Still think DSG's are over-rated, most long term box fiddlers might agree with this

but new comers are often blinded by high ROF is everything and must get/build one - naaaahhhhhh

 

13:1 gears, Short Stroke if you wish & balanced motor will get you into the twenties which is plenty on 7.4v 25c

(unless you are over compensating for crap shooting ability like I was/am)

 

Just a quick note in case people thinking of buying the awesome BD M160 - maybe not

it will crap out due to ultra high speed and heat generated and you will need extra batteries (trust me)

 

A more sensible motor will run cooler, draw less amps and last longer (if done properly)

and when paired with a 13:1 gear set will produce same results as dumping a HS motor in reg box

but Amps/Watts will be much lower and battery/box will last longer than a reg box with M160 motor

 

Another thing is that ORIGINALLY G&G DID make a DSG with cut off lever cams

though this was a limited production run way before HC05 was made

maybe they had to pull it for copyright issues with Seigetek so pulled the 3mm axle with cams

then made a 5mm axle no semi cam DSG - yeah WTF ???

 

see here on an old Amazon Japan site pic shows the 3mm axle and cut off cams....

 

 

This was probably the gear set option showcased by G&G at the 2015 Shot Show with 3mm axle & COL cams

Alas the HC05 went into production with crappy 5mm axle & no semi DSG gear - absolutely stupid idea

 

So yeah - avoid the G&G HC05 & perhaps a QUICK UPDATE - lol on the M160 motor is way too quick

(just in case you think of getting one of those bad bot motors as they really are quick - ergh too quick & warm running)

 

Just a quick update, mainly in case people are thinking of buying the M160 motor - old review of mine

and my choice today would be a 30k not 45k motor

(ultra high speed & heat is not the be all & end all I have learnt the hard way)

Edit - pasted the SHS DSG on Amazon instead of the old G&G one - doooh my bad

removed the SHS link & updated....

 

G&G did originally make a 3mm axle DSG gear with COL cams

(probably showcased in 2015 but likely pulled due to copyright issues)

So they made the poxy 5mm axle no semi gear instead - stupid doesn't even cover it

 

see here G&G's Riot rip-off clone DSG with 3mm axles & COL cams no longer made

if only they had put this in or come to an agreement with Riot/SHS or something the HC05 would have had semi

 

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ARMAMENT-G-10-102-Double-Sector-Gear/dp/B007JQGHPK

 

[Iceni]

Those ASG CNC motors run very cool.

I've been running the 35K version for quite some time now and it replaced the slower SHS HS, that ran very hot. Only run 18:1 7.4v so 22 ish rps. Nothing crazy.

It's not for a DSG setup tho... It would eat itself in seconds!



Nice to have you post! It's been a while!

 

[L3wisD]

Duck is back!