Which retailers in the UK accept Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance?

[Tommikka]

@superwok If you could post up the policy wording, or pick out a couple of points such as the underwriter and the sections on what they actually cover then that would be highly informative on any actual value of JustCos

 

For those who have been around the block a few times, it’s just fleecing players of an extra £20

 

The policy is the key unknown 

[superwok]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

@superwok If you could post up the policy wording, or pick out a couple of points such as the underwriter and the sections on what they actually cover then that would be highly informative on any actual value of JustCos

 

For those who have been around the block a few times, it’s just fleecing players of an extra £20

 

The policy is the key unknown 

 

The confirmation ultimately rests with the retailer. I have inquired about their willingness to proceed, and they have consented. Therefore, it hinges on the retailer's terms and conditions whether they choose to accept or reject. Should the retailer be dissatisfied, they have the right to refuse, by accepting, they take on the associated responsibilities.

13 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Note that to be pedantic:

for an adult buyer in the UK it is always legal to acquire a RIF

any offence is committed by the retailer

 

By asking for a photo of you playing at an airsoft event they have not committed an offence under the VCRA, as they have been able to reasonably confirm intent to play airsoft at an insured site.

What they have also managed to do is to con you into spending £20 on ‘cosplay insurance’ which bears no relevance to the VCRA or to playing an airsoft event

 

What does the Just Cos insurance certificate insure you for?

 

Their web page says that it provides “Public Liability insurance in their right as a re-enactor to wear and carry costume articles that may prove alarming or ‘scary’ to third parties who may not understand our purpose. This policy particularly covers the right to carry imitation weaponry that could otherwise be mistaken as real or mistakenly reported as an offensive weapon.”

 

What injury / damage is your JustCos going to pay out for a third party being alarmed or scared?

 

https://www.just-cos.co.uk

 

The skirmisher defence under the VCRA requires the site/event to have public liability insurance, for the injury of you/third parties or the damages/losses to you/third parties. 

This £20 my be a con to you but not to me, this has allowed me to buy the RIF I want without the need of it being two toned, (also the sites I play at the most do not allow 2 tone rifs) or having to attend the 3 games needed for the UKRA, so it has saved time and hassle on my part.

[DanBow]

6 minutes ago, superwok said:

 (also the sites I play at the most do not allow 2 tone rifs) 

 

That sounds very suss, what are the reasons for not allowing 2 tone rifs?

[JinxDuh]

16 minutes ago, DanBow said:

 

That sounds very suss, what are the reasons for not allowing 2 tone rifs?

A site turning down money because a replica is bright blue? Not a very good business move imo

[superwok]

Regardless of personal opinions or suspicions, the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance is a means to acquire RIFs. While not universally accepted, it aligns with the requirements of certain retailers. A UKARA is essential for purchasing, though not for owning, an RIF, presenting an alternative approach. It's important to note that the validity of claims is generally low, as airsoft events usually offer public liability insurance. Carrying RIFs in public contravenes the law, and insurance invariably excludes illegal activities. Thus, the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance is an alternate solution, with any issues to be resolved by the accepting retailers.

 

 

Many have expressed frustration here, which is pointless in this forum but meaningful action requires more than voicing discontent. I encourage you to advocate for change by contacting retailers to discontinue its use of the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance m and engaging with your local MP about this issue. Debating here often circles back to the same points without progress. My initial query was to identify which retailers accept this insurance, not to collect opinions because it is boring now. If change is your goal, I suggest moving from discussion in this forum to actually action.

1 minute ago, JinxDuh said:

A site turning down money because a replica is bright blue? Not a very good business move imo

this is UCAP airsoft a very popular and well ran sites, i would suggest checking them out !!!

[DanBow]

8 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

A site turning down money because a replica is bright blue? Not a very good business move imo

 

7 minutes ago, superwok said:

this is UCAP airsoft a very popular and well ran sites, i would suggest checking them out !!!

 

Yep, as the man says, they don't allow them! @superwok any idea why?

 

Begs the question, how would they know? If i bought a 2 tone and did a decent spray job, how could they tell?

[GenuineGerman]

@superwokdo they send you the policy for the pli to show you the level of cover? 

[superwok]

DanBow  UCAP are committed to hosting realistic skirmishes, emphasizing the importance of maintaining an authentic atmosphere. As such, brightly colored guns are prohibited to prevent them from detracting from the experience also, modified firearms, like a pistol equipped with an M4 magazine that is HPA tapped , are not allowed on the sites. Every event I've attended has been exceptionally well-organized, and spots usually  sell out quickly. I would highly recommend the gloucester prison site.

GenuineGerman- 

 

yes they do you get £5 million of cover with zero excess fee to pay 

DanBow.   chances are they wouldn't be able to tell but lets not forget, you would be breaking the law if you modify a rif by spraying it, 

Edited March 10 by superwok

[Colin Allen]

17 minutes ago, DanBow said:

 

 

Yep, as the man says, they don't allow them! @superwok any idea why?

 

Begs the question, how would they know? If i bought a 2 tone and did a decent spray job, how could they tell?

Because Andy Stevens felt that they undermined the argument that using them negated the "immersion" contention that was part of the rationale for us to keep our non-brightly coloured toys.

[Pseudotectonic]

Let me put it this way, if I were to claim from your 5 million insurance, where do I even send my claim form to?

[Enid_Puceflange]

2 minutes ago, Colin Allen said:

Because Andy Stevens felt that they undermined the argument that using them negated the "immersion" contention that was part of the rationale for us to keep our non-brightly coloured toys.

I’ll be honest, that makes perfect sense to me.

If the site operator wants realism and immersion at his place, fair enough.

Especially the no m4 mags in pistols, I’ve never tried to ram a 5.56 into a 9mm but I can see the attempt being futile.

 

Also, I think two tone, as important as it is for the non committed player starting off is important, can understand the rule of not allowing them on the site.

It just kinda brings in the right players who are into the immersion.

 

I have found myself in a position of playing around different sites with no regular schedule, so keeping my ukara “live” to allow a couple of recent purchases has been impossible.

Personally I don’t see the £20 being much of a rip off to allow me my habit.

But I consider myself a reasonably long standing player, so proof of me attending sites to play isn’t difficult, who doesn’t like to pose for the photographer when you spot him!

[Tommikka]

17 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

Let me put it this way, if I were to claim from your 5 million insurance, where do I even send my claim form to?

You don’t claim from their insurance, you claim against the individual / site / organiser.  They then refer your claim to their insurer

 

The insurer then pays out or doesn’t - directly to you or via the individual / site / organiser

 

The individual / site / organiser remains liable or not irrespective of whether their insurance covers the claim

55 minutes ago, superwok said:

A UKARA is essential for purchasing, though not for owning, an RIF, presenting an alternative approach. 

Pedantic correction 

 

A VCRA defence is essential for the sale of RIFs

The buyer needs to express a ‘defence’ in the terms of the act, but the legal impact lies upon the seller - they may need to defend themselves in court to establish that they took reasonable steps to establish that the buyer had a ‘VCRA defence’ at the time of sale 

 

UKARA is the defence established by the retail industry - but it is not a specified method in the law

 

 

I would argue in your case that your photo/photos are the ‘defence’ that matters.

In asking for that they are acknowledging the elephant in the room that JustCos has no bearing upon the VCRA

 

You’re happy that you obtained your RIF, they’re happy that they made money selling a RIF & an extra £20 was spent on JustCos

It’s not a bad thing to have PLI - providing it gives you relevant cover

[Tommikka]

 

Regarding any sites disallowing two tones - that’s entirely down to them - their site, their rules

 

It does as mentioned reinforce the entire justification of establishing a VCRA RIF defence with ‘immersion’ into the game

46 minutes ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

……, who doesn’t like to pose for the photographer when you spot him!

I don’t, not never, there is not an abundance of photos of me making staged advances towards /

past photographers, furtively looking down the lens whilst trying to pretend not to look at them.

There also definitely is not a set of posed portrait photos of me in the midst of a firefight, and that non existent photoset was not used as a reference guide for the design & manufacture of a custom event player stautuette trophy

 

 

Not

Edited March 10 by Tommikka

[DanBow]

1 hour ago, superwok said:

chances are they wouldn't be able to tell but lets not forget, you would be breaking the law if you modify a rif by spraying it, 

 

What law would you be breaking?

[superwok]

Removing the blue paint or respraying the gun is classified as 'Modifying an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm,' which is explicitly illegal under Section 36(1) of the Violent Crime Reduction Act: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36.

 

Hope this helps.

[Cannonfodder]

I'm not sure if I've missed something but what specifically does the just con insurance actually cover?

[Dan Robinson]

Do you have the wording of the policy?   What is it insuring you against?   I don't think hurting someone's feefees is a thing....just yet at least.

Edited March 10 by Dan Robinson

[DanBow]

13 minutes ago, superwok said:

Removing the blue paint or respraying the gun is classified as 'Modifying an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm,' which is explicitly illegal under Section 36(1) of the Violent Crime Reduction Act: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36.

 

Hope this helps.

 

That says that its for the manufacture, import and sale of RIFs, not ownership. 

[Colin Allen]

2 minutes ago, DanBow said:

 

That says that its for the manufacture, import and sale of RIFs, not ownership. 

b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

How do you modify an airsoft imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm?  You remove the brightly coloured paint or overspray it.

[Sniper780]

3 hours ago, superwok said:

Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance is a means to acquire RIFs. While not universally accepted, it aligns with the requirements of certain retailers.

Why don't Just-Cos not just list the retailers that accepted their version of a defence? UKARA have a list of registers retailers on their website.  

 

Seems odd to sort of leave you scrabbling  to find a retailer especially if you paid for the membership?   

[Tommikka]

39 minutes ago, Sniper780 said:

Why don't Just-Cos not just list the retailers that accepted their version of a defence? UKARA have a list of registers retailers on their website.  

 

Seems odd to sort of leave you scrabbling  to find a retailer especially if you paid for the membership?   

There would be two reasons for those differences

 

1) JustCos is not a VCRA RIF defence, but a cosplayers Public Liabilty Insurance policy - in case you scare someone with your cosplay 

 

The cosplay event that is referred to as a ‘partner’ does not/did not even allow RIFs in their cosplay rules

 

I would recommend that cosplayers who feel the need to protect themselves from any liability to the general public ought to join one of their local/regional cosplay socities and benefit from the groups PLI plus all the other benefits of being part of a society in your hobby / interest

 

2) The UKARA list shows registered retailer members of the Retailers Association and have access to verify UKARA membership.

Other retailers may accept UKARA as a defence without the ability to directly verify

[Galvatron]

9 hours ago, superwok said:

Removing the blue paint or respraying the gun is classified as 'Modifying an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm,' which is explicitly illegal under Section 36(1) of the Violent Crime Reduction Act: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36.

 

Hope this helps.

 

It is an offence provided that you don't have a defence to do so, which is explicitly attested to on that same link.

[Dan Robinson]

I'm starting to wonder if this is a misplaced advert for Just-Con?

 

Hell, my plans for semi retirement this year have had a spanner thrown in the works.   For £30 per head I'm sure I can provide a respectable database of data to provide a defense....  any stupidity needs to be done on an already insured site 

 

DM me for details.  🫡

[hitmanNo2]

I couldn't see any Just Cos on Companies House... Surely they should be registered? Seems a bit suspect. Complete lack of info on their site.

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, hitmanNo2 said:

I couldn't see any Just Cos on Companies House... Surely they should be registered? Seems a bit suspect. Complete lack of info on their site.

Especially when the last order I made with airsoft world arrived with just-cos on the shipping label. 

 

On a related note I had a look on the airsoft world website for anything just cos related and found this gem 

 

Along with Action Hobbies, Airsoft world are the original designers and developers of the 2 Tone BB gun, we currently hold the design rights for the blue and green gun designs.

 

I'd like to see them try litigation against someone for painting a 2 tone without their permission 

 

Edited March 11 by Cannonfodder