Two tones

[Guest cfcf12345]

Hi guys

 

if someone can help would be apprecaited what’s the laws on using two tone in public by that I mean obviously not carrying it out in the street or shooting up people etc as that’s illegal I understand) but if I was to test it somewhere outside an air soft field/venue would I get in trouble?I’ll try find places concealed where not many if any people go too if that helps

 

thanks

[Shamal]

13 minutes ago, cfcf12345 said:

Hi guys

 

if someone can help would be apprecaited what’s the laws on using two tone in public by that I mean obviously not carrying it out in the street or shooting up people etc as that’s illegal I understand) but if I was to test it somewhere outside an air soft field/venue would I get in trouble?I’ll try find places concealed where not many if any people go too if that helps

 

thanks

Hi fella.

Just one word really.

 DON'T!

don't do it mate for all our sakes.👌

 

Regards 

[Cannonfodder]

Please tell me you're not serious 

[Adolf Hamster]

as above, please don't use an airsoft pew, 2-toned or not, in public, no matter how secluded a spot you think you're in.

 

that's not the sort of publicity our hobby needs.

 

take it to a proper airsoft site, it's much more enjoyable when the target is allowed to shoot back.

[RostokMcSpoons]

If you shoot in your own back garden, and BBs leave your private property, you're already breaking the law. 

Imagine the fun Plod will have with you if you're shooting a gun completely out on public land, two-tone or not.

 

Find someone who has a big garden and get permission to shoot entirely within their property. 

Or find your local site and ask them nicely to try out your gun on their range.  If they think you'll become a player with them, I'm sure they'd be happy to let you.

Please

 

[Rogerborg]

Two-tone is irrelevant to the offence.  It's Firearms Act 1968, Section 19:

 

"A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place [...] an imitation firearm."

 

Note: not realistic imitation.  Here's an example of a conviction for simple possession of a bright orange springer pistol which even the arresting officer conceded was a "toy".

 

Per the Sheriff's comments, the bar for what constitutes a reasonable excuse is set low in principle.  In practice, it's a complete lottery and you may find yourself in front of anti-gun (or poorly advised) judiciary who aren't minded to think that your excuse - of "want to" - is reasonable.  You may get away with "boys will be boys", or you may be looking at 6 months / £400 and a criminal record with a big red "FIREARMS" trigger-word in it.

 

Also bear in mind that the interpretation of "in a public place" is very broad: “"public place” includes any highway, road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise".  The chap above was on the steps of the bank, technically on their private property, but considered public due to the general right of access.  I've seen arguments made that the direct route from a property boundary or gate to domestic front doors is also public for this purpose, absent signage withdrawing the implied right of access.

 

tl;dr - don't.  Entirely on secure and ideally secluded unambiguously private land only, with the land-owner's permission. If you're travelling somewhere to shoot (on private land) then be prepared to show evidence of that.

[EDcase]

3 hours ago, cfcf12345 said:

Hi guys

 

if someone can help would be apprecaited what’s the laws on using two tone in public by that I mean obviously not carrying it out in the street or shooting up people etc as that’s illegal I understand) but if I was to test it somewhere outside an air soft field/venue would I get in trouble?I’ll try find places concealed where not many if any people go too if that helps

 

thanks

See all above

If you just want to test it and not play, you can still go to a site near you and ask if you can use their range but not play.

Most sites will let you test your gun on their range or in the woods for free.

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, EDcase said:

and ask if you can use their range

 

And I stress the "asking", don't just sneak on there out of hours.

 

I mention this because a chap got bagged and tagged, and had his guns seized when he thought it would be a good idea to drive out to a local CQB site and test fire in the car park last year.  It's on a fairly remote and partially abandoned industrial estate, and actually quite well secluded, but not well enough.  A dog walker, estate rent-a-cops, or similar called it in, and the blue fury of ScotPlod descended.

 

I don't know whether the chap tried to wiggle out by claiming that he had permission to be there, but the site made it very clear on Facebook that he absolutely did not, that he was banned for life, and that they'd not be putting in a single word in support of anyone else who tries a similar wheeze.

 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

And I stress the "asking", don't just sneak on there out of hours.

 

This. If you don't ask or ignore them saying no you'll be committing armed trespass, which IIRC means 5 years of trying not to drop the soap in the showers

[Guest cfcf12345]

Perfect guys no harm in asking I’m new and wasn’t sure I thought as long as it’s not in clear sight even though it’s in public it should be fine but I won’t do it thanks for everyone’s advice

5 hours ago, EDcase said:

See all above

If you just want to test it and not play, you can still go to a site near you and ask if you can use their range but not play.

Most sites will let you test your gun on their range or in the woods for free.

I will do that thank you

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Two-tone is irrelevant to the offence.  It's Firearms Act 1968, Section 19:

 

"A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place [...] an imitation firearm."

 

Note: not realistic imitation.  Here's an example of a conviction for simple possession of a bright orange springer pistol which even the arresting officer conceded was a "toy".

 

Per the Sheriff's comments, the bar for what constitutes a reasonable excuse is set low in principle.  In practice, it's a complete lottery and you may find yourself in front of anti-gun (or poorly advised) judiciary who aren't minded to think that your excuse - of "want to" - is reasonable.  You may get away with "boys will be boys", or you may be looking at 6 months / £400 and a criminal record with a big red "FIREARMS" trigger-word in it.

 

Also bear in mind that the interpretation of "in a public place" is very broad: “"public place” includes any highway, road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise".  The chap above was on the steps of the bank, technically on their private property, but considered public due to the general right of access.  I've seen arguments made that the direct route from a property boundary or gate to domestic front doors is also public for this purpose, absent signage withdrawing the implied right of access.

 

tl;dr - don't.  Entirely on secure and ideally secluded unambiguously private land only, with the land-owner's permission. If you're travelling somewhere to shoot (on private land) then be prepared to show evidence of that.

By a public place I meant outside in a secluded forest or something not on highways etc I’m not stupid haha

[RostokMcSpoons]

24 minutes ago, cfcf12345 said:

By a public place I meant outside in a secluded forest or something not on highways etc I’m not stupid haha

 

But anywhere you can go without it being act of Trespass is by definition and demonstrably by your own presence a public place!

Remember, you're dealing with the law here, not your own internal sense of what's right and wrong and acceptable. 
You might think we're all coming on a bit strong on you, but it's precisely your sort of thinking that could lead to a public shit-storm one day, and an end to airsoft.  So we're strongly on the side "careful now, down with that sort of thing" to avoid a problem.

 

I bet you're thinking "I'm going to be in a forest, what's the worst that can happen".  Well 99.99% of the time you might well be fine.  But if you're there and you ping some innocent person walking his dog... (or - probably even worse in terms of publicity - the dog...) then we're all royally fecked just because you couldn't be bothered to find somewhere where it's legal + safe to try your gun.

 

 

Anyway, to end on a positive note: I hope you find somewhere, you get your gun sorted, and have some fun with your fellow airsofters

Edited February 11, 2022 by RostokMcSpoons

[EDcase]

Accidentally hitting someone would be pretty much a worst case scenario and could have severe consequences for you AND us.

 

But even if its someone who sees you from far away and calls the police (more likely than you might think), you'll have a LOT of hassle to deal with and certainly wouldn't be allowed to own another airsoft gun.  You may not care but there are many people who want to get rid of airsoft completely and would use these kinds of incidents to achieve it.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by EDcase

[Guest cfcf12345]

Hi guys I genuinely understand all of this and I knew all of this I done some research I just couldn’t find anything about parks forrests etc hence all the questions I don’t want to get in trouble and don’t want airsoft to be banned etc in the future. Now I know so thank you all I’ll ask to test the weapon at a airsoft site/venue 

 

thanks to all involved

Last question sorry guys I have a flat hence why I asked if I can shoot. Outside as it’s not big enough to test in my flat can my neighbours or that call the police on me if they hear the gun go off in the flat it is pretty noisy when it shoots as there’s no suppressor on it and I panic incase they can hear it through the walls or whatever any advice on this please?

 

thanks in advance

[EDcase]

Legally you can shoot in your own property but if someone calls the police it can still be a pain to explain the situation to them.

Maybe put music or TV volume up a bit to mask the noise.  Not too high of course.

 

Generally airsoft guns don't make that much noise.  (A suppressor doesn't make any noticeable difference)

[Guest Mr. No_Face]

You have no control over how your neighbours decide to react, so asking us for reassurance is ultimately pointless.

 

 It really depends on what kind of relationship you have with your neighbours/housemates. I live in a flat and my housemates and neighbours are aware of my airsoft activities. I have a space in the garage where I can practice targeting and drills but I have also taken measures to limit the amount of noise via foam padding and thick sound absorbing door covers.

[SBoardley]

We all have to make our own risk assessments based on what we should do, not what we want to do…

[Guest cfcf12345]

7 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Legally you can shoot in your own property but if someone calls the police it can still be a pain to explain the situation to them.

Maybe put music or TV volume up a bit to mask the noise.  Not too high of course.

 

Generally airsoft guns don't make that much noise.  (A suppressor doesn't make any noticeable difference)

I understand but can they legally if it does happen do anything to me? And yeah I turn up the tv to try n hide it but still slightly noisy I’m probably paranoid as nobody has complained yet about the noise etc and I get on well with all my neighbours but you know how people are they complain at the simplest and stupidest things but thanks for the advice 

6 minutes ago, Mr. No_Face said:

You have no control over how your neighbours decide to react, so asking us for reassurance is ultimately pointless.

 

 It really depends on what kind of relationship you have with your neighbours/housemates. I live in a flat and my housemates and neighbours are aware of my airsoft activities. I have a space in the garage where I can practice targeting and drills but I have also taken measures to limit the amount of noise via foam padding and thick sound absorbing door covers.

It’s not reassurance I need you guys have more experience and knowledge than me in regards to this if it’s legal to own one and legal to shoot it in the house as long as nothing goes to neighbours then why would the police cue trouble for me if it’s legal?

I’m really sorry for all the questions I know you need to unload magazine and put the gun in safety and it can’t be loaded when travelling with it to a site however does this also apply at home?thanks

[Cannonfodder]

 

2 hours ago, cfcf12345 said:

Perfect guys no harm in asking I’m new and wasn’t sure I thought as long as it’s not in clear sight even though it’s in public it should be fine but I won’t do it thanks for everyone’s advice

I will do that thank you

By a public place I meant outside in a secluded forest or something not on highways etc I’m not stupid haha

A   "secluded forrest" is probably owned by someone (even if public footpaths go through it) so would be armed trespass 

[EDcase]

No safety rules for home (unless you have children who might play with em)

If the police did turn up it would depend on their knowledge regarding airsoft law.   Even though its perfectly legal they may take some convincing or they may just say how cool the gun is.

 

Since you're on good terms with your neighbours why not ask if they hear any noises.

[Guest cfcf12345]

16 minutes ago, EDcase said:

No safety rules for home (unless you have children who might play with em)

If the police did turn up it would depend on their knowledge regarding airsoft law.   Even though its perfectly legal they may take some convincing or they may just say how cool the gun is.

 

Since you're on good terms with your neighbours why not ask if they hear any noises.

Only reason I asked is cuz I don’t want armed police breaking my door in thinking I’ve got a real gun seen it happen a lot online some even get shot for it even though they are at home with it so just putting my mind at ease but thanks for all that info guys I appreciate ot

[EDcase]

Just now, cfcf12345 said:

Only reason I asked is cuz I don’t want armed police breaking my door in thinking I’ve got a real gun seen it happen a lot online some even get shot for it even though they are at home with it so just putting my mind at ease but thanks for all that info guys I appreciate ot

That may happen more in the US but in the UK they're unlikely to shoot unless you point the gun threateningly at them.

Honestly I don't think anyone will report they've heard gunshots so if they do turn up it'll be because they've had a noise complaint that the music is too high 😄

[Guest cfcf12345]

10 minutes ago, EDcase said:

That may happen more in the US but in the UK they're unlikely to shoot unless you point the gun threateningly at them.

Honestly I don't think anyone will report they've heard gunshots so if they do turn up it'll be because they've had a noise complaint that the music is too high 😄

Very true I just panic when it comes to these things I don’t want to get in trouble or anyone else for that matter so though I’d ask thank you for all the info and advice guys I’ll follow what you guys have said 

 

thanks again stay safe guys

[RostokMcSpoons]

Yeah, it's tricky.  Maybe develop a taste for watching Saving Private Ryan and Black Hawk Down in strict rotation. so the neighbours get used to the noise of shooting   

 

In all seriousness, if you only let loose a burst of shots during daylight hours, with something soft to absorb the BBs so it's just the noise of the gun... I don't think the neighbours could complain.  After all, it's not much louder than someone doing a bit of DIY with a hammer and an electric drill (at the same time, granted!).  If you can time your occasional shooting with them being out, all the better.

 

As for safety, it's good practice to keep it unloaded.  Gun safety is something you want to always aware of so it becomes ingrained by repetition, so you don't f' it up when you're around other people.  It's only too easy to casually pick up your gun, squeeze the trigger and have a BB bouncing off the walls.   Or through a window.  So at the least make sure the battery is out,  mags are empty.

And after shooting clear the gun with a couple of extra shots with no mag in, so there's definitely not one 'up the spout'...  because that can catch anyone out.

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

Just make sure you can't be seen by Joe Public when shooting in your garden/house, eg if you're in the front room it would be a good idea to close the curtains 

[Guest cfcf12345]

Thank you all guys you’ve all helped I’ve asked an airsoft site if they would let me test it at their range waiting to hear back in the mean time again thank you everyone