Are these guns a stupid idea

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've got my Double Eagle M906C as my primary.  I've got my TM AK-47S as my alternative.  I've got my Classic Army M15A3 (M16 A2) as a ... something or other (It's not quite shooting straight, I'll raise another thread about that)

But damnit, three guns isn't enough to stop me lusting after something else!

Top of my current wish-list is the old Tactical Tuna itself, the F2000... 

 

£175 here https://www.socomtactical.net/cybergun-fn-f2000-aeg-black/ 

Several reasons for this gun as my front-runner

• My fave gun in Battlefield 4.   I'd need a stubby front grip and red dot sight to complete the look
• Cheap(ish)
• High-ish rate of fire (18rps)
• Can take my metal high-cap STANAG mags.  I've got 5 already... keeps the cost down

 

 

Next up is some variety of L85

 

£185 here https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/army-armament-r85a1-l85-sa80-aeg-replica-in-black.html

(Allegedly this is basically the same as the much more expensive G&G version, and they're both likely to break - so might as well have the cheap one!)

I got mildly obsessed with this gun back when I was 10, and in my gun books it was still the SA80 in 4.85mm.  I really wish there was a version of that, as it looks really cool...

Also takes my STANAGs.

Downside is these things weigh too much.  But hey-ho.

 

 

And lastly (for the moment) some sort of Steyr AUG. Preferably a shortened version
 

 

Yowzers, £130! https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/army-armament-r904-steyr-aug-cqb-version-in-olive-drab.html

I'd rather have a rail than the integrated optic though, so more likely... 

£115(!)  https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/army-armament-r901-steyr-aug-bb-gun-in-black.html 

 

or if I'm feeling flush and can blow £280 + extra for mags, then good ol' TM High Cycle...
https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/tokyo-marui-high-cycle-steyr-aug-airsoft-gun-aeg-black

 

 

So yeah, I'm a bit of a fan of bullpups, and actually all 3 of these are amongst my most-used in Battlefield 4 so I have a strong affinity with them from that.
 

But are they too sh*t to actually contemplate buying?   
Are there gotchas I should consider that should stop me from making an impulse purchase of a cheap one (of any make) from the Classifieds?

 

 

(I was actually expecting to pay £170+ for any of these, so the cheap AA ones were a big surprise - feel free to suggest other manufacturers!)
 

[JinxDuh]

I wouldn't go with the AA L85A1 personally. From the two I've owned, they're god awful internally and externally. ICS is FAR superior and not that much more to buy now either.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Hmmm, you say 'not much more' but there are none in stock, and the cheapest is £300 for an attractive carbine version, or £360+ for the full size one.

So really it's not an option at the moment.

[JinxDuh]

45 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Hmmm, you say 'not much more' but there are none in stock, and the cheapest is £300 for an attractive carbine version, or £360+ for the full size one.

So really it's not an option at the moment.

Wow, I had no idea they was selling for £300. I picked mine up about 2 years ago for £200 brand new haha.

 

Personally out of the choices above, I'd go for the Aug. Lovely to use and ergonomic too.

 

 As cool as the F2000 is, a buddy of mine had one and it was very specific with what mags it would take, no idea if that was just his though but it definitely put me off.

 

But of course, just my two cents!

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Welcome to airsoft and the perpetual desire for more pieces...

 

Sounds like you're after a bullpup then. I'd recommend trying one first as not everyone gets on with the ergonomics of a bullpup, the arse about tit layout really throws folk and can make reloads awkward, plus the different weight balance. They can also be heavy for their small size. YMMV.

 

I have an APS UAR, a gun that is slagged off a lot however I rather like it. Its light, shoots very well and is a lot cheaper than other bullpup options. Not everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly mine.

 

If I was you, you've got three very decent guns there, I keep them and save your money for other stuff like mags, clothing  tactical stuff etc.

 

Personally, I'm after a Desert Eagle as its my favourite pistol and I've half convinced myself that I could do with a GBB sidearm rather than the 20 quid springer 1911 I currently have.

[RostokMcSpoons]

20 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

Wow, I had no idea they was selling for £300. I picked mine up about 2 years ago for £200 brand new haha.

 

Personally out of the choices above, I'd go for the Aug. Lovely to use and ergonomic too.

 

 As cool as the F2000 is, a buddy of mine had one and it was very specific with what mags it would take, no idea if that was just his though but it definitely put me off.

 

But of course, just my two cents!

 

Yeah, it's a shame, but the Great Emptying Of The Shelves (c)2021  is really not helping the prices
My friend has a TM AUG, I've always liked it... but the front grip broke, which did put me off a little.
I believe the F2000's 'finicky with mags' reputation comes from the fact almost no poly mags will work with it - but metal STANAGs are ok.   I think that's right (and I'd therefore be ok)

 

Your two cents are very welcome, thanks

17 minutes ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

Welcome to airsoft and the perpetual desire for more pieces...

 

Sounds like you're after a bullpup then. I'd recommend trying one first as not everyone gets on with the ergonomics of a bullpup, the arse about tit layout really throws folk and can make reloads awkward, plus the different weight balance. They can also be heavy for their small size. YMMV.

 

I have an APS UAR, a gun that is slagged off a lot however I rather like it. Its light, shoots very well and is a lot cheaper than other bullpup options. Not everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly mine.

 

If I was you, you've got three very decent guns there, I keep them and save your money for other stuff like mags, clothing  tactical stuff etc.

 

Personally, I'm after a Desert Eagle as its my favourite pistol and I've half convinced myself that I could do with a GBB sidearm rather than the 20 quid springer 1911 I currently have.

 

Fair points well made.  I have handled a full size AUG and an ICS L85 (briefly).   The AUG is great.  The L85 is very heavy.  But I do think it's cool regardless.  But I'm not expecting this gun to replace my DE M906 as my main gun.  It'll be for the 'cool factor'  (which I'm afraid rules out the likes of the Keltec and UAR which I haven't used in games, or known from my enjoyment of firearms history)
 

Ah yes, the one gun on my "must buy" list is a TM 5.1 Hi Capa.   But in this cold weather I think I'd rather have a cheap Cyma AEP in my holster.  My HFC de-gasses on the first shot so I don't trust a gas gun when the temp is this low.  GBB is just brilliant when it works though!
The TM will be bought next year.  Or maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list (oooh, I like that idea!)

Edit:
Here's the nicest looking AUG I've found so far... 
https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/snow-wolf-aug-carbine-replica-in-olive-drab-short-sw020t.html
£190 for a Snow Wolf.  Green stock, short barrel, picatinny rail, stubby grip.  Spot on, if a tiny bit pricey
Damnit, out of stock.  Everywhere

Edited December 2, 2021 by RostokMcSpoons

[Fatboy40]

I've not been playing airsoft for long, but the hatred of bullpup's is not unfounded, they all just have compromised mechanics and are unreliable / have spongy triggers etc. no matter how cool they look. Watch a few Negative Airsoft videos and you'll get the idea out of your head 👍

 

However, as real firearms they're beautiful and a valid platform, and I love the P90 and Steyr AUG.

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Bit of a sweeping statement that. No more or less unreliable than any other AEG IMO... all subjective and one man's meat is another man's poison and all that. I prefer my bullpup to my M4 but that's just me.

 

I have considered an AEP as it gets pretty cold up here and not sure if I can be arsed pratting about with gas etc, however they have pretty sluggish performance. I'd be better sticking with a springer or just flinging BBs at opponents...

 

Anyway, everything's out of stock everywhere so we can forget buying anything for a while yet.

[Asomodai]

As a bullpup fan, all of your current rifles are on paper better then any of the bullpups you have posted.

 

I recommend going for something much better if you want a bullpup, something with a electronic trigger to combat some of long trigger pull issues bullpups have. 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Also, forgot to say if you're using STANAG mags it's it's good idea to go with that platform again as it saves you having to faff around with different mags.

[Badgerlicious]

2 hours ago, JinxDuh said:

ICS is FAR superior

The AA must be extra crappy cos my ICS L86 has chewed through a nozzle o-ring and broken its trigger group (£40 replacement 😬) Though I will be fielding again in this months christmas game, as it's finally fixed. It does have one of the better trigger pulls of the bullpups as the contacts are above the trigger, and not on the end of a long stick. Also really easy to work on. 

 

I have an AUG high cycle, I'm very fond of it and its ergonomics, despite the spongey trigger, and the fact the semi auto needs fixing right now. It's an absolute machine when you open it up for some supressing fire. The high cycle is one of the few models with a semi-auto selector position. It does maybe lack a bit of range, mine maxes out at about 40m. But it's a cqb gun more than a woodland gun. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Badgerlicious

[RostokMcSpoons]

23 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

As a bullpup fan, all of your current rifles are on paper better then any of the bullpups you have posted.

 

I recommend going for something much better if you want a bullpup, something with a electronic trigger to combat some of long trigger pull issues bullpups have. 

 

From what I've read (back when I was actively looking at an L85 as my first new gun, before I ended up with the M906)...

• The Ares L85's can be ruled out because their electronic triggers / mosfets have a tendency to die 'early and often'.   And Neggy-man hates Ares with a passion, from what I've seen.
• The G&G tends to disassemble the EBB system... fixable, but the gun is very expensive (ie. more than £400)
• The ICS is out of stock
• I can't find any electronic triggers on AUGs. (I'm guessing the TM would be the 'least bad' choice in your opinion?)
• The Keltec has an ETU and I have seen it gets the thumbs-up from reviewers as a good bullpup.  But it doesn't really float my boat now (I did shortlist it as my main/primary before I went 'safe' with an m4)

 

All in all, I'm feeling that 'logic' 'sense' and 'all that shizzle' aren't really going to factor in my purchasing decision here.  And as no-one has slagged off the F2000 yet... maybe it wins?

3 minutes ago, Badgerlicious said:

The AA must be extra crappy cos my ICS L86 has chewed through a nozzle o-ring and broken its trigger group (£40 replacement 😬) Though I will be fielding again in this months christmas game, as it's finally fixed. It does have one of the better trigger pulls of the bullpups as the contacts are above the trigger, and not on the end of a long stick. Also really easy to work on. 

 

I have an AUG high cycle, I'm very fond of it and its ergonomics, despite the spongey trigger, and the fact the semi auto needs fixing right now. It's an absolute machine when you open it up for some supressing fire. The high cycle is one of the few models with a semi-auto selector position. It does maybe lack a bit of range, mine maxes out at about 40m. But it's a cqb gun more than a woodland gun. 

 

Ouch on the ICS.  Still, guns break.  It's their nature, innit? 

Regarding the AUG - glad you like it so much.  The reduced range does give me some pause - I do play at a woodland site (with some occasional CQB-ish areas within it.  In those I'm restricted to single shot so rather negates the fun factor of the HC RoF    And £280 remains a step up in price.
Sod it, if I go AUG I'll buy one of the cheapo AA's, and maybe slap a new motor in it.

[Druid799]

37 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

I've not been playing airsoft for long, but the hatred of bullpup's is not unfounded, they all just have compromised mechanics and are unreliable / have spongy triggers etc. no matter how cool they look. Watch a few Negative Airsoft videos and you'll get the idea out of your head 👍

In a word , bollox . I’ve been playing for a very long time and I’d say this sweeping statement pretty much covers every model of airsoft gun there’s ever been . You get good and bad with everything ! 

@RostokMcSpoons I’ve got a pair of AUG’s one standard length and one short para I’ve also got an L85AFV and my youngest has got a Tavor and there all great guns to play with (only takes seconds to get your mind in the right place to change your reloading to behind instead of to the front of the trigger assembly) the para and the AFV are absolutely awesome in CQB due too the short length but still hold their own with no trouble at all in woodland due them both still having reasonable sized inner barrels compared to some supposed ‘outdoor guns’ . In the end bud comes down too if you want it get it . 👍

[EDcase]

Yeah, I'd say get the one you like the look of most.  Sounds like its going to be on a shelf most of the time anyway.

The performance of any of those should be good enough to play in woodland or cqb and can always be improved.

 

I've heard the AA L85 isn't great but if you like the look of it and its cheap enough then why not.  It should still give you some good game days.

Its not that hard to fit a basic MosFet so you can fit or replace one if you want to get into a bit of teching.

 

I wouldn't listen to Mr Negative too much.  He spouted about the Ares L1A1 being crap and hard to work on but I worked on mine no problem and it shoots really well. And I'm not a tech by any standard.

 

I have a JG Aug which was less than £150.  I haven't used it in a game yet but testing in the garden indicates it shoots really well.

 

[Asomodai]

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

And as no-one has slagged off the F2000 yet... maybe it wins?

 

 

I had the Cybergun F2000 when they first came out. Basically it's a JG AUG aside from the externals and magwell. 

 

18RPS is achievable on 11.1v, But the internals aren't up to spec or set up to keep up with that ROF reliably without shedding the piston/gears/trigger contacts. 

 

Mine was pretty terrible out of the box. The barrel was shockingly bad. the Motor was frankly awful. I basically had to replace everything to get it even remotely decent. I eventually sold it in favour of the G&G F2000. 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

• The Keltec has an ETU and I have seen it gets the thumbs-up from reviewers as a good bullpup.  But it doesn't really float my boat now (I did shortlist it as my main/primary before I went 'safe' with an m4)

 

 

It's OK. The ETU is overengineered as a simple mosfet like all Ares built rifles (Yes it's an Ares), but gives you very little in terms of configurability. The Hop unit is pretty pants and needs modification to lift heavier bb's. At the moment I have only replaced the barrel and hop rubber. I will be at least replacing the Motor in mine soon as Ares Stock Motors are awful and is essentially being bullied into performing by the mosfet. 

 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

• I can't find any electronic triggers on AUGs. (I'm guessing the TM would be the 'least bad' choice in your opinion?)

 

I do like my TM Aug High Cycle, However its almost unupgradable without replacing almost everything due to it's short stroked gears/high speed motor nature. 

 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

• The G&G tends to disassemble the EBB system... fixable, but the gun is very expensive (ie. more than £400)

 

Disconnect the EBB mechanism before it breaks. The AA's System is just as bad. Both AA and G&G have proprietary pistons which like to crap themselves fairly easy.

 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

• The ICS is out of stock

 

Great externals, but I have had a couple of cut off levers break due to an inherently weak design whilst actuating the roughly cut sector cam, stock motor is terrible which I replaced. Interestingly enough the trigger unit works as a sort of mechanical mosfet. 

 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Sod it, if I go AUG I'll buy one of the cheapo AA's, and maybe slap a new motor in it.

 

You'll need to mod the selector so it will fire single shot, the dual trigger just does not work reliably enough to not get kicked out of semi only games. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

 

 

All in all, I'm feeling that 'logic' 'sense' and 'all that shizzle' aren't really going to factor in my purchasing decision here. 

 

 

It's terrible for your wallet. I own or have owned most airsoft bullpups so you don't have to. They all come with some inherent problems, usually proprietary parts which are pretty terrible, they all come with crap motors without exception and most have crap triggers. Ultimately you are welcome to purchase what you want, but you must have come here to acquire some knowledge. 

 

What would I get if I were you? TM Aug HC on the expectation that I wouldn't mod it and would be happy with its performance despite the lack of FPS. 

 

What would I get if I were you out of what you have picked? Either the F2000 or the Aug, they are essentially the same inside with the same issues, but not as bad as the L85. Beware of the F2000 mag compatibility. Mine was incredibly fussy even with Metal Stanag mags. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Asomodai

[RostokMcSpoons]

13 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

I own or have owned most airsoft bullpups so you don't have to. They all come with some inherent problems, usually proprietary parts which are pretty terrible, crap motors or crap triggers. 

 

 

We thank you for your service

:Presses [X] to Salute:


 

Well, I do really appreciate taking the time to lay all this out for me.  This truth is UGLY but then people think bullpups are anyway, so maybe it's fitting.
I happened to find a review of the G&G F2000 which told further sorry tales of trigger woes and poor build quality (https://www.reddit.com/r/airsoft/comments/ezn4ql/detailed_gg_f2000_written_review_2020_updated/

I'll move the needle on the 'Pew-Pew-ometer' towards the 'Wall-hanger' end of the scale appropriately.  
Oh dear.  I am sad

 

I should say that the idea of tech-ing my gun does appeal.  After all, at some point I'm going to run out of room to buy guns'n'gear, so buying parts and upgrading is the logical step. 
I've already had a go with my AK and M16. With 'mixed' results - I chickened out of putting the trigger back together, let the site tech do that... next time I'll just damned well try harder!

Edited December 2, 2021 by RostokMcSpoons

[Asomodai]

3 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

 

We thank you for your service

:Presses [X] to Salute:


 

Well, I do really appreciate taking the time to lay all this out for me.  This truth is UGLY but then people think bullpups are anyway, so maybe it's fitting.
I happened to find a review of the G&G F2000 which told further sorry tales of trigger woes and poor build quality (https://www.reddit.com/r/airsoft/comments/ezn4ql/detailed_gg_f2000_written_review_2020_updated/

I'll move the needle on the 'Pew-Pew-ometer' towards the 'Wall-hanger' end of the scale appropriately.  

Oh dear.  I am sad

 

Mine had it's piston completely strip within 50 shots as well. This was because of poor QC not because the piston was particularly weak. Currently I have replaced the piston, barrel, hop rubber and mosfet to a Perun. The gearbox was pretty badly shimmed and a terrible motor. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Asomodai

[PopRocket123]

Out of what you've picked I'd go with an AUG A3 with the short barrel and excess of rails. No wobbly foregrip and no fixed optic. I've also heard rumours of M4 mag adapters for it but I've never seen one myself. 

[TheFull9]

This'll be the super unpopular option, but if the ICS is out of stock maybe you can save enough to afford it by the time it's back in.

 

If there's one thing I'll claim to be a world expert on it's judging whether a replica is close to a real L85 and my ICS is definitely very good as airsoft guns go.

[RostokMcSpoons]

I am thinking back to watching the English Kiwi vidz which included a big review of all the available L85's.  The consensus was the ICS and G&G were very close, but the G&G was the better OOTB gun.  The AA was acceptable if you were prepared to meddle with it (extensively?)

 

Hmmmmm, well I'm in no rush.  I can save some cash (with Xmas coming that'll be hard), see what pops up.

 

Re the F2000.  Here's my gun in-game (Battlefield 4).  Would be pretty cool to do a paint job like this...

Note the stubby grip, and the red dot sight that looks very much like an Amazon special!

 

(BTW, is clicking a 'like' or a 'thanks' on every reply ok here?  It's like I'm giving out Smarties rather than medals, but these Smarties are free so I throw them around willy-nilly)

Edited December 2, 2021 by RostokMcSpoons

[Badgerlicious]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

supposed ‘outdoor guns’

I will say for the HC aug, it will lift 0.28s, so it's not useless outdoors, you just have to get a bit closer than some other guns. Though my next project will be trying to maximise the the power of the gearbox setup with airseal and ratios instead of more powerful springs. 

 

@RostokMcSpoonsif you want an aug that works alright and has room for upgrades, the JG aug is a popular one. 

[BigStew]

SA80 has crap ergonomics and a good one is expensive, the fn2000 is suprisingly bulky as in wide and quiet a few people i have spoken to found the grip angle uncomfortable ( not personally but i find the P90 really comfortable to hold). AUG ergonomics are all right the cross bolt safety is not really ambi but most manufactures put the notch in it to make it a fire selector as well, the grip angle is good, the trigger guard means you can wear large gloves, folding foregrip is very useful, the hop is a well designed rotary and the gear box is a standard V3. the major selling point of the AUG is it can be field stripped and the barrel can be changed quickly (granted you then need several outer and inner barrel assemblies) not majorly useful but it is cool and good for transport. cons it does have a long trigger pull but that's not really a problem and mag changes aren't as easy as an armalite style gun.

 

So out the three i'd get a P90 red dot with several MAG 170rd mid caps. failing that Civilian version of the AUG( the built in scope on the military models is crap no matter what manufacturer).

[RostokMcSpoons]

A P90 has crossed my mind but I thought the mags and feeding were a problem?

 

Alternative guns I consider cool are the MP5 and the Galil.  There's certainly a few cheap MP5s I could pick from.

[Asomodai]

47 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

A P90 has crossed my mind but I thought the mags and feeding were a problem?

 

Alternative guns I consider cool are the MP5 and the Galil.  There's certainly a few cheap MP5s I could pick from.

 

Apparantly the Krytac P90 has solved the P90 mag issue... But I don't know personally and it could be just hype. 

 

Mp5s can be had in many flavours. Just make sure you go for one with a decent hop unit and externals that can handle the gearbox vibration from moving the hop unit adjustment whilst firing. 

 

Galil. I got a buddy selling a Cyma one if that is of interest. I have no experience of Galils myself.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Asomodai

[BigStew]

48 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

A P90 has crossed my mind but I thought the mags and feeding were a problem?

 

Alternative guns I consider cool are the MP5 and the Galil.  There's certainly a few cheap MP5s I could pick from.

high caps are very cleverly designed but tend to miss feed mid caps do not. Galils are just nicer looking AKs as far as I am aware only the ICS versions have a functioning ambi selector but not heard anything bad about the other brands. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by BigStew