Dmr'd M4 😳🤷‍♂️

[Bob Ross]

Hi, I posted in the welcome forum a few weeks ago regarding a new Polarstar build I’m working on but I think this question requires it’s own thread.

 

Basically I’m getting into Airsoft and have everything I need to build a HPA’d DMR.

 

I purchased a VFC Avalon Sabre as the donor, which is a long M4 along with a PRS stock, scope, polarstar engine and silencer - essentially it will end up looking like an AR15. 
 

My dilemma is that this is obviously not a cheap build, so I want to get it right. I’d like to run a platform that is versatile, having the option to configure to run cqb if I felt the need. This versatility is why I went with the M4 in the first place, however I’m reading a lot of hate for DMR’d M4’s. This seems to be largely due to the smaller caliber - I hear the argument that a real DMR should run .308 or similar but I can’t figure out if this is the common conception or just the opinion of a select few who like the ultimate realism (I’m not knocking it if that’s your thing).
 

Due to this stigma, I’m now considering if I should have gone for a .308 RIF like the G&G TR16 .308 instead. I plan on playing normal skirmishes for now, so perhaps this isn’t as bigger issue as I’m making it but I’d like the option of playing some light milsim if I wanted to later done the line. 
 

Would an AR15 build like the one I planned fly playing as a support / DMR or would this raise eyebrows? ... obviously this will be locked to semi auto; and If I was to change platform, how would the G&G TR16 compare to the VFC Avalon externals? .. because the externals on the Avalon are just epic IMO.

 

Whatever i decide to do, I want to keep the polarstar engine in the DMR as bought it for consistency and accuracy not spamming full auto. 
 

Any advice?
 

... thinking out loud here, but the other option I’ve considered is running with the M4 as the primary and getting a sniper on my back for when I get into position (though this probably ain’t the best use of the polarstar engine or my money). 🤦‍♂️ 🤔😕🤷‍♂️

[Shaydee]

Very dependant on the site if they'll allow an M4-esque platform as a DMR, though based on experience and some googling a majority in the UK don't care. I'd check with your local sites first before you jump into the money pit. Some milsim sites may want a higher caliber 7.62-esque style rifle like an M110/SR25, SVD, G3 and others may just want proof your particular rifle was used in a DMR capacity. Accurised M4s have been used by several countries in the DMR role, the US have had things like the SAM-R and MK12 SPR, the Phillipines the MSSR, etc, so you might have to build something specific if you just want an M4/16 platform for milsim. Personal preference is a whole other kettle of fish, same as sites - some people care massively and are milsimmed out the wazzoo, whilst others are running bright pink space gats in a tshirt. I personally run my G&P noveske bodied M4 as a DMR at my local site (though I've slapped an E&C gearbox from AK2M4 in there for the weekend just to have a crack 😄).

 

Another thing to remember is that with a DMR you'll be playing with a minimum engagement distance. If anyone steps within 20 metres or so you'll be needing a sidearm or something to engage them with as your DMR would be out of play. Just something to think about as it could be another added cost you may or may not have factored in.

[concretesnail]

It will depend in the sites you play really. My local wants dmr to be 7.62 or other larger calibre rifs, they state no m4s with the fps pumped up but others are less fussy.

Personally it's not an issue as I have a g&g 308 so i can run it dmr or assault rifle category.

[Bob Ross]

1 hour ago, concretesnail said:

It will depend in the sites you play really. My local wants dmr to be 7.62 or other larger calibre rifs, they state no m4s with the fps pumped up but others are less fussy.

Personally it's not an issue as I have a g&g 308 so i can run it dmr or assault rifle category.

Is it this G&G 308? What weight can it hop stock?

 

 

[Druid799]

So have you actually played yet ? Reason I ask is realistically there isn’t a true DMR role in 90% of airsofting game days .

[Bob Ross]

I’ve rented a few times. The place near me allows higher fps for semi-auto rif’s. 450fps in fact 😈 

 

Strongly thinking or getting the G&G sr25 but I’m trying to figure out if the knights armament (kac) version is also compatible. It looks like polarstar offer an extended nozzle and spacer for the standard SR25 ... not sure about the kac version though 🤔 

 

I guess as long as it has the v2 gearbox it should be ok 🤷‍♂️ 

[concretesnail]

4 hours ago, Bob Ross said:

Is it this G&G 308? What weight can it hop stock?

 

 

Straight out the box I ran with .3g hopped them fine. 

Though I have dmr'd it now I ran it as is came initially, just cleaned the barrel and set the hop. It felt good. Responsive, solid not silly rate of fire, 328fps on a .2g could lift .3s

 

[HuttArmouries]

23 hours ago, Bob Ross said:

I’ve rented a few times. The place near me allows higher fps for semi-auto rif’s. 450fps in fact 😈 

 

Strongly thinking or getting the G&G sr25 but I’m trying to figure out if the knights armament (kac) version is also compatible. It looks like polarstar offer an extended nozzle and spacer for the standard SR25 ... not sure about the kac version though 🤔 

 

I guess as long as it has the v2 gearbox it should be ok 🤷‍♂️ 

If you want something long barreled it may be a better option to look at guns with a v2.5 gearbox instead. the cylinder volume is higher on those. 

[Bob Ross]

Cheers dude. I’m running a hpa fusion engine though, so it’s v2 only for me. 
 

I’m going to order the g&g sr25 knights armament version tomorrow and buy the polarstar conversion kit they make, so that I can run a standard m4 hop/inner barrel.

Any recommendations on hop and barrel? ... I’m thinking maple leaf.

 

Ps: I will be selling my new, unused (never fired) m4 vfc Avalon sabre with three mags for £320 ovno soon. Keep an eye out on the buy/sell page or pm me if anybody’s interested but I will be waiting till the g&g arrives before I sell.

Only reason I’m selling is because Im building a dmr and overlooked the whole 5.56 / 7.62 thing. I just hope the g&g looks and feels as nice externally 😬

I will also be selling the g&g g2 gearbox, hop barrel and motor.

 

 

[Davegolf]

Visually to make it more DMR legitimate, just run a decent sized silencer on there and some short magazines, like these AMAG

 

As for performance you have a P* FE, so you it’s all down to Rhop and setup/tuning to maximise its effectiveness 

[Bob Ross]

45 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Visually to make it more DMR legitimate, just run a decent sized silencer on there and some short magazines, like these AMAG

 

As for performance you have a P* FE, so you it’s all down to Rhop and setup/tuning to maximise its effectiveness 

I’m really torn tbh. I had planned to put a prs stock on it, a decent sized silencer and run mid caps. It would be a really versatile platform with the fusion engine too and It wouldn’t look out of place running full auto in cqb or semi auto as a dmr In woodlands etc .... in fact I can’t think of many disadvantages now, other than some sites not allowing m4 builds to run higher dmr fps. I guess I would also need to think about a way to lock it to semi auto without any permanent changes.

[Davegolf]

I don’t what your torn about or is difficult to fathom?

 

Surely run a PRS, silencer, AMAGs and lock to semi in the FE settings.

 

Then for assault/CQB for different stock, remove silencer, run PMAGs and turn the power down

[Bob Ross]

4 hours ago, Davegolf said:

I don’t what your torn about or is difficult to fathom?

 

Surely run a PRS, silencer, AMAGs and lock to semi in the FE settings.

 

Then for assault/CQB for different stock, remove silencer, run PMAGs and turn the power down

Thanks for the gcheck, you’re right! 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

On 26/05/2021 at 17:02, concretesnail said:

. My local wants dmr to be 7.62 or other larger calibre rifs, they state no m4s with the fps pumped up

 

Their site, their rules, but I'd feel compelled to point out that they're then talking about semi automatic sniper rifles, not designated marksman rifles, one point of which is that they can use the same mags and ammo as the carbines in the squad.

 

If it becomes an issue at my local (I very much doubt it) then I'll throw on a solid stock on and die on this hill.

 

[Lozart]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Their site, their rules, but I'd feel compelled to point out that they're then talking about semi automatic sniper rifles, not designated marksman rifles, one point of which is that they can use the same mags and ammo as the carbines in the squad.

 

If it becomes an issue at my local (I very much doubt it) then I'll throw on a solid stock on and die on this hill.

 

 

Yup. *chuckling in MK12*

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Lozart said:

Yup

 

 

Here's the thing, f you're not milsimming, it doesn't matter, and if you are milsimming, then there are undeniably M4/M16 based rifles that are "DMRs".

 

[lukeB]

The main reason I built an m110 with kythera engine was to ensure I don’t get caught out by ‘no m4’s’ or mechanical semi lock rules.

 

Every site I’ve used a dmr they didn’t care about caliber and none of them checked that full auto was disabled.
 

Are there any laws regarding that or is trusting people to keep it on semi enough?

 

 

[Alimcd]

I keep seeing more and more DMR players at my local site. I don’t think it’s long before they introduce rules about what CAN be a DMR platform only to ensure that gameplay doesn’t stagnate from having 100 people that don’t move and can’t engage each other under 30m.

 

For the same reason, they have a rule that an M4 with a box mag is not a support weapon for games where support guns are allowed automatic fire where anything else is semi-only.

 

For the ranges we engage at, even .22 is a realistic “DMR” caliber 

6 minutes ago, lukeB said:
 

Are there any laws regarding that or is trusting people to keep it on semi enough?

 

 

If you have a pew that’s capable of full auto and outputs higher than 350/0.2, you’re technically in possession of a firearm from a legal standpoint. 

[Rogerborg]

21 hours ago, Alimcd said:

f you have a pew that’s capable of full auto and outputs higher than 350/0.2, you’re technically in possession of a firearm from a legal standpoint. 

 

Well, 1.3J or about 375fps.  And I'd note that's with "any missile", not whatever you happen to have in there.  This is a particular issue for HPA / gas owners who may be over-volumed and Joule creep to infinity and beyond if something heavier is put in there.  I'm not aware of it being an issue yet, but if I was a copper needing to hit some firearms targets "key performance indicators" I might be minded to do a sweep at my local airsoft site with a bag of 0.86g steel BBs and an "Oh deary me" speech prepared.

[Cyberlawyer]

I have never had a problem running my MWS based Mk12 as a DMR even at sites that state DMRs must be 7.62. I have been to a couple and spoken to the marshals before the game and they have checked it out and been fine.

 

The fact that it is long and weighs a shit tone (18” heavy steel outer barrel) and being a GBBR has pretty realistic ammo limits as well as being based on a real steel DMR has always been fine with them.

 

I think the issue is it is unfair to have the range benefits of a DMR without the disadvantages of a DMR to offset it (size, weight, ammo capacity). This is the main reason for the arbitrary power difference between bolt actions and DMRs (why would most people use a bolt action when you could shoot just as far with a semi locked DMR?).

 

I also have a semi-locked 14.5 inch MWS that shoots at just under the 500 FPS mark, but it built as a competition gun for 2 or 3 gun shooting where the higher FPS is an advantage and we are only punching paper so no issues. I would never run this in a game as it would not be in the spirit of the hobby to do so as my carbine length M4 would be out ranging all but the most well set up sniper rifles (not to mention the fact that it was an expensive build so I would be very upset if I dropped it in the dirt).

 

 

[Rogerborg]

34 minutes ago, Cyberlawyer said:

This is the main reason for the arbitrary power difference between bolt actions and DMRs (why would most people use a bolt action when you could shoot just as far with a semi locked DMR?).

 

I've seen sites which have the same 2.32J limit and MEDs for DMRs and bolt actions, which seems very strange.

 

My local has a 1.88J limit for DMRs, which I actually think is a bit high considering how useful I think it will be at that site.  It's a narrow site and a lot of the games end up as standoffs with BBs falling just short.  I'll see how it works, but might even agitate to have the power limit lowered.

 

I have to admit that my new effort is a bit of a Frankengun, being an M933 carbine with a 7" barrel extension on it. I've got a solid stock on the way from China, and will be running short mags.  Or rather, short mag, since cheap stubbies are out of stock and I'm not paying £12 and up for what's left on the market at the moment.