Non Chinese Manufacturers

[Nick G]

With everything that's going on in the world at the moment with the Covid 19 outbreak I find myself wanting to as far as is humanly possible stop buying products that are made in China. Not an easy task these days, but I'm not a tech head so only replace phones / laptops etc when they actually break so I can research where they are made and buy accordingly. Buy what about our toy guns ? which brands are actually not manufactured in China ? Presumably TM are made in Japan and AST are made in Taiwan, but what about others ? 

[Asomodai]

Uhh, not really. Many are made in Taiwan and Hong Kong which are essentially Chinese. I cant think of many others unless they are custom build companies, mostly in the states. But I imagine many of them use Chinese made parts that are shipped over to be assembled. 

 

Marushin are made in Japan.

[Nick G]

That's what I thought, looks like I may have to start buying TM then 🤣 , not that I actually need any more guns ! 

[GiantKiwi]

Why though? By the time an item has been shipped from China and  sat in customs etc, there is no possible way of any virus still existing on any surface.

[Nick G]

1 minute ago, GiantKiwi said:

Why though? By the time an item has been shipped from China and  sat in customs etc, there is no possible way of any virus still existing on any surface.

It's got nothing to do with fear of the virus, just a desire to get away from 'made in china'  

[GiantKiwi]

Just now, Nick G said:

It's got nothing to do with fear of the virus, just a desire to get away from 'made in china'  

 

Well, given that about 30% of the entire world's manufacturing is done by China, with nearly 60% of all electronic components made by them, you're really going to struggle.

[Nick G]

1 minute ago, GiantKiwi said:

 

Well, given that about 30% of the entire world's manufacturing is done by China, with nearly 60% of all electronic components made by them, you're really going to struggle.

I know, and it's doubtful that it's possible to get completely away from 'made in china' and you can never know where internal components are sourced from but I plan to as far as possible . Like I say electronics aren't too much of an issue as I rarely buy tech  ( I think the last piece I bought was a tablet for the wife about 3 years ago) . It'll mean spending more of course  but I'm prepared to do that.

[heroshark]

Maruzen and Tanaka are Japanese. 

[Zarrin]

1 hour ago, Nick G said:

With everything that's going on in the world at the moment with the Covid 19 outbreak I find myself wanting to as far as is humanly possible stop buying products that are made in China. Not an easy task these days, but I'm not a tech head so only replace phones / laptops etc when they actually break so I can research where they are made and buy accordingly. Buy what about our toy guns ? which brands are actually not manufactured in China ? Presumably TM are made in Japan and AST are made in Taiwan, but what about others ? 

 

As @GiantKiwi mentioned when it comes to the actual spread of covid from parts that arrive from China you should probably consider that the virus itself cannot survive outside of a biological host for very long - typically a few hours, but up to 72 hours (unless the findings of this research has changed in the last couple of weeks). This being the case, you are more likely to get the virus from within the UK logistical side of things (so the postman or other courier) than you are from a Chinese product packed up in one of their factories.

But as far as getting away from ACM goods for moral reasons is concerned, as everyone's saying it is very difficult - I think even the South Korean companies have their stuff made in China. 
The problem is, from a commercial perspective it makes very little sense to have something manufactured anywhere but there - even if you want decent QC; they can accommodate that too these days; I was watching a OnePlus factory QC tour video a few months ago, and they are a Chinese company building their own phones, and from what I can tell they are meeting the same standards as Korean and US competitors.
I think companies like Oneplus and Huawei show that dependence on China is only going to grow and even more so towards the top line products as they'll be catching both ends of the market.

 

[Nick G]

13 minutes ago, Zarrin said:

 

As @GiantKiwi mentioned when it comes to the actual spread of covid from parts that arrive from China you should probably consider that the virus itself cannot survive outside of a biological host for very long - typically a few hours, but up to 72 hours (unless the findings of this research has changed in the last couple of weeks). This being the case, you are more likely to get the virus from within the UK logistical side of things (so the postman or other courier) than you are from a Chinese product packed up in one of their factories.

But as far as getting away from ACM goods for moral reasons is concerned, as everyone's saying it is very difficult - I think even the South Korean companies have their stuff made in China. 
The problem is, from a commercial perspective it makes very little sense to have something manufactured anywhere but there - even if you want decent QC; they can accommodate that too these days; I was watching a OnePlus factory QC tour video a few months ago, and they are a Chinese company building their own phones, and from what I can tell they are meeting the same standards as Korean and US competitors.
I think companies like Oneplus and Huawei show that dependence on China is only going to grow and even more so towards the top line products as they'll be catching both ends of the market.

 

As I said , i'm not remotely concerned about the spread of Covid  via products from China. It is purely a moral issue, and it's the dependence on China that concerns me.  whilst I don't for a minute think that one person boycotting Chinese products will make a difference or encourage UK companies to bring their manufacturing home , if enough people did it then it would have an effect. It'll be very hard to do and as I said before , there is no way to do it 100% because there will always be the 'unknown' factor. But as far as I possibly can I intend to try . 

[Zarrin]

48 minutes ago, Nick G said:

As I said , i'm not remotely concerned about the spread of Covid  via products from China. It is purely a moral issue, and it's the dependence on China that concerns me.  whilst I don't for a minute think that one person boycotting Chinese products will make a difference or encourage UK companies to bring their manufacturing home , if enough people did it then it would have an effect. It'll be very hard to do and as I said before , there is no way to do it 100% because there will always be the 'unknown' factor. But as far as I possibly can I intend to try . 

 

Yeah, I mean a lot of this comes back and ties into the discussion we were all having a couple months ago about clone products - ultimately it comes down to what the majority mindset is. Having said that, I actually think it does make a difference making those changes for yourself, even if it doesn't result in pulling wide scale industry back to the UK, it contributes and expands the mindset and awareness of the people you come in contact with.  

[Ad_]

I'm also avoiding products made in China for the same reasons. I'm exempting Hong Kong for now, but that may change depending on what happens there/if the mainland Chinese government puts their jackboot down on it any harder.

 

It's impossible to completely avoid everything made in China though. Even if you buy something that's made in another country there's still a good chance that parts of it were made in China - plus there are many things that are not currently manufactured anywhere else. The world is far too dependent on China for many things... still, it can be minimised at least.

 

This isn't likely to change any time soon but I think it's likely there will be a greater push for moving away from Chinese manufacturing going forward, even if only to reduce fragility of supply chains. I read somewhere that the Japanese government are already planning to incentivise Japanese companies to move their manufacturing away from China, and Trump has been discouraging Chinese imports to the US for a while with tariffs, so perhaps others will follow suit and it'll get easier over time.

 

As far as I know KJW, WE, G&G and ICS are all Taiwanese. Nuprol are also Taiwanese but they mainly seem to rebrand other stuff (which is often Chinese made).

 

4 hours ago, Asomodai said:

... Taiwan and Hong Kong which are essentially Chinese.

 

Taiwan isn't, despite how much the PRC likes to insist otherwise.

[Tackle]

4 hours ago, Nick G said:

 🤣not that I actually need any more guns ! 

You go wash out that potty mouth right now, such subversive talk, you've clearly been spending too much time with the missus lately 🤫

[Nick G]

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

You go wash out that potty mouth right now, such subversive talk, you've clearly been spending too much time with the missus lately 🤫

need is one thing, want is something completely different  🤣🤣 Actually to be completely fair to Herself, she tends to peer over my shoulder when I'm looking at gun porn say things like ' if you want it , get it ' 😁

[Lozart]

23 hours ago, heroshark said:

Maruzen and Tanaka are Japanese. 

 

I'd put money on them having components that are made in China though.

[Nick G]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

 

I'd put money on them having components that are made in China though.

Very probably, but anything that helps minimize the Chinese content is a step in the right direction .

[hitmanNo2]

A lot of companies are talking about scaling down their reliance on Chinese manufacturing and diversifying into other countries to spread their risk.  Countries like Vietnam are most likely going to step up and benefit massively from all this.

[emilianoksa]

My guns are all Taiwanese or Japanese.

 

Most of my accessories  - red dots, hand guards, lights, etc - are cheap Chinese though. Won't be buying any more.

[Guest]

I don’t understand not buying from a particular country. All countries are politically expedient artificial human constructs after all.

 

I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards, but avoiding something due to the country of origin?

 

For example, Taiwan is claimed as part of China PRC, by China, and by some parts of the world. A few countries recognise Taiwan’s sovereign right to be Taiwan ROC (15, tiny island states mostly) but most just quietly ignore it for the sake of convenience.

 

So do you buy from Taiwan?
 

And then Hong Kong is another minefield lol.

 

And what about shifting borders? 
 

It doesn’t make any sense 

[Zarrin]

18 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

I don’t understand not buying from a particular country. All countries are politically expedient artificial human constructs after all.

 

I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards, but avoiding something due to the country of origin?

 

For example, Taiwan is claimed as part of China PRC, by China, and by some parts of the world. A few countries recognise Taiwan’s sovereign right to be Taiwan ROC (15, tiny island states mostly) but most just quietly ignore it for the sake of convenience.

 

So do you buy from Taiwan?
 

And then Hong Kong is another minefield lol.

 

And what about shifting borders? 
 

It doesn’t make any sense 

 

The way I see it, this is less a matter of race and not wanting to buy from a particular ethnicity, but more about policy cause and effect.. in this case the actions and intentions of the PRC government - sometimes perceived, other times very real. 

 

Hoping not to get too political, but here goes..

 

So in my opinion most of the big powers in the world... China, Russia, The US, ourselves, western Europe have a long history of doing deplorable things all around the world, the US probably being the worst contemporary offender. I find it quite funny when any country with the ability to throw their weight around says they are doing or supporting something because "it's the right thing to do" - the reality is, Anything done, said, supported or reprimanded by any government is done to support ones own geopolitical interests and assets, and it is the relevant local and international media outlets jobs to help subtly indoctrinate people into thinking that something was said or done because "while we don't really agree with almost anything our leaders do they are actually good, genuine people trying to make the the world a better place." - funny how that works.

 

Now, China is as guilty of the above as anyone else, however the way I see it, their business practices and commercial empire building, effects us at home (where ever that may be) more than the equivalent practices of any other country in the world. Of course one of these effects is reflected in the consumer products around us, but more importantly is the migration of industry out of almost every country in the world to China and the devastating costs that has had on economies and entire communities over the past 2 to 3 decades. Now of course, the governments of the countries who have lost their industrial sectors to China are equally (possibly more so) to blame as they haven't had the will or even intention to safeguard those industries. But, when this happens to a country, even over a long period of time, it feels more palpable, because it does effect us and the people around us - almost more so perhaps than lets say a war started for political purposes, because firstly, that war is typically many thousands of miles away and secondly the people among us who are effected by that are going to be military personnel and their families for the most part, whereas the above effects all of us in one way or another.

 

[Nick G]

1 hour ago, rocketdogbert said:

 

 

I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards, but avoiding something due to the country of origin?

 

 

 

 

Same principle surely ? I don't like China's 'ethics' and feel that it is becoming too powerful on the world stage . Countries are much the same as companies when it comes right down to it, both have a leadership, be it politicians or a board of directors, who dictate how it behaves and what it does. Expansion by take over and empire building go on with both and any one becoming to powerful is always detrimental to the competition. 

[Lozart]

I think one of the issues at play here is that our hobby is dominated by products produced wholly in China which can skew peoples views on how Chinese industry is affecting the world. Yes, there's a lot of products made in in China but there's an awful lot more that rely on Chinese manufacturing to produce parts for products manufactured elsewhere. A large part of the reason for the bulk of Chinese built products going to export is purely because the vast majority of their population is just too poor to buy it. The theory of it all is that by exporting a large part of their production they bring more money into the country to attempt to lift those people out of poverty (although we all know how well trickle down economics works).

 

In terms of low cost production, China really isn't the cheapest any more and hasn't been for some time. The idea of "cheap Chinese crap" isn't the same as it used to be in the 70's and 80's because more and more western countries have shifted production out there and introduced the concepts of traceability and quality control.

 

Ultimately though the blame for this lies squarely at our own feet. If we as consumers were happy to keep paying the rising cost of domestically produced goods, manufacturers would not have needed to look elsewhere to cut production costs. Thing is, we in the west are basically greedy. We want to have our cake and eat it, we want a bigger TV, a nicer car, a new airsoft rifle but we still want to have a holiday and eat and pay rent. So we demand cheaper and cheaper goods and services to meet our ever increasing demands. To keep paying the wages manufacturers have to make more profit which in turn means cutting costs. Enter China.

 

As has been suggested by @Nick G, if you want to do your part to reduce China's stranglehold on the manufacturing market - vote with your wallet. Be prepared for reduced choice and increased cost though because I can't see things changing quickly.

[CombatVVombat]

If it's all about not wanting China to have a stranglehold on manufacturing and not agreeing with their ethics, which are both fair reasons to not want to buy from China, what does Covid-19 have to do with it?

[Ad_]

19 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

I don’t understand not buying from a particular country. All countries are politically expedient artificial human constructs after all.

 

I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards...

 

It's basically the same thing; it's about avoiding supporting their government. The Chinese government has always been rather dodgy (as authoritarian/totalitarian governments inevitably are) but for a time it looked like things might have been improving there... unfortunately their actions in recent years have shown they're getting even worse.

 

42 minutes ago, CombatVVombat said:

If it's all about not wanting China to have a stranglehold on manufacturing and not agreeing with their ethics, which are both fair reasons to not want to buy from China, what does Covid-19 have to do with it?

 

Much of this disruption, suffering and death could have been avoided had the Chinese government been more responsible and open in dealing with it early on, e.g.:

 

If they didn't silence doctors warning about the possible emergence of a SARS-like disease around November last year
If they didn't "disappear" whistleblowers and journalists reporting on the situation
If they didn't lie repeateadly about the nature and extent of it

and so on.

 

They could - and should - have learned from the previous times they've had this kind of thing happen and taken steps to prevent it happening again, before it blew up into such a major problem as it has now. They pointed the blame at the Wuhan wet market for providing the conditions for it to emerge,  and such wet markets have been the source of previous diseases, yet since reopening they have made no changes in how these wet markets operate so it'll inevitably happen again at some point (there's also a possibility that it was leaked from one of the two nearby labs that were researching coronaviruses... we may never know for sure, but ultimately it doesn't really matter).

[kasaran]

has this happened to you then?

 

 

 

as long as it doesnt develop into....