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DannyG

Night Vision - Gen 1 worth it or not?

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Hi,

 

I'm looking at getting NVG's as I'm starting to do more MilSims and night games.

Is Gen 1 good enough for airsoft?

Gen 2's aren't really in my price bracket.

 

I've heard that if people have Gen 2/ Gen 3 then a Gen 1 user would stick out like a sore thumb because of the amount of IR light needed for the Gen 1's to work efficiently - Is this correct?

 

If Gen 1 IS good enough for airsoft, which ones do you recommend getting?

 

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

If you are going to slate Gen1 and say it's a waste please give a reason :)

 

Thanks!
 

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Yes you do stand out to the other players if your using IR illumination BUT if your just using the ambient moon/starlight then not such a problem , equally the image is very diffused and grainy but any image is better than no image at night ? 

Ive used both and obviously gen 2 is much better but as long as your not expecting 4K vision then I think gen 1 works fine for airsofting as not everyone has NV at the game so there’s still plenty thrashing around the place with torches (remember don’t matter what gen you have , someone zaps you in it with a torch then your equally blind no matter what your running ! 😣) and what not ! 👍

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had my gen 1 scope out last week for it's first proper night shoot, now granted this is my own experience with one particular rifle scope but here goes.

 

my logic was similar to yours- can't afford a gen 2 unit and surely any nods is better than no nods.

 

however the gen 1 units really fall flat once it gets proper dark, the image is nigh on unusable if you're in woodland, maybe with a nice moonlit night you might get away with it but an ir illuminator is a very definite must.

 

of course ir is going to light you up like a lighthouse, but only really to other nv users, to those  who don't have nv there is a red flash off the torches which can get you shot, but nowhere near as bad as a regular torch. you can get torches that don't emit visible light, but they're more expensive.

 

with a decent illuminator i'd describe it as looking at daylight through a drinking straw, definately good enough to spot targets at airsoft distances *provided they aren't well hidden*, a caveat that very much applies (a stationary hiding target is as hard to see in nv as daylight, harder even due to lack of colour), problem is it'll murder your natural night vision, so if you're only using it intermittently you're going to be worse off when trying to move about, mine's a rifle scope so i was only using the ir breifly to scan for targets.

 

one of the guys there had a gen 3 unit, and, well, there's a reason they're so expensive, much wider field of view and turned the same pitch black image into an eminently usable image (albeit a bit grainy, but still perfectly usable with no illumination)

 

i reckon in a nice defensive game, get dug in it'd work pretty damn well given the enemy has to come to you and it'll give you a much stealthier "not sure if dude" option.

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What's this Gen 1 / Super? Is it like a Gen 1+?

Guessing that's still no good?

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12 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

Which one did you go for? The cobras look good but no bright light protection which seems essiential. Cheers!

I went with the FLIR (Armasight) Sirius SD Gen2+ which was about £1300.  They haven't got any atm...and currently what I see they have on offer is not as much as what they normally offer, but their stock changes all the time.

 

I've heard the COBRA's are very good as well. (Russian tubes I believe)

 

 

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15 hours ago, Monkman said:

Do what I did..buy a Gen2+ on finance....is quite affordable.

 

https://www.scottcountry.co.uk/night-vision/monoculars/

 

I hate you...

 

I dont want or need one , and have never played a night game so doubt I would use it but now you have me calculating repayments 😝

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I'm not a NV user, though I plan to be in the next year or so.

 

Gen1 will definitely light you up when required to use the IR illumination - borderline unusable for dedicated night games or milsims.

 

However! I do fantasise about bringing out a cheap G1 NOD to a normal walkon day during the winter - The sites I play at normally have an hour or so in darkness, with little to no chance of anyone else having any NODs themselves. You could probably clean up quite well in that sense.

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Gen1 is largely useless for anything other than standing still and spotting at reasonably short distances.  If you're looking at NODs to take to a milsim game absolutely do not take gen1, all of the other night vision users will insist on you turning off your illuminator which will render you blind.  

 

On top of that, even the best gen1 has a 30degree field of view which is very fisheye distorted meaning unless you're staring straight at the thing you're looking for/at it's basically useless. 

 

Gen2 should be your absolute minimum entry level, I wouldn't worry too much about 'bright light protection', don't ever turn it on in a lit room or daylight, torches won't do much damage so long as you look away reasonably quickly.  If you want to be able to just look through people's torches get a decent set of auto gated gen3, the image on those will dynamically adapt to preserve the tube and allow you to see even with someone shining a bright torch at you.  I've quite happily shot at people and known what was going on even with car headlights shining at me when using mine.  

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And if you really got the money forget your gen3's and your flir and get some swir. Can see through glass, rain, smoke and if used with the right  illuminator still not seen by gen 3's or flir(illuminator that is) 

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53 minutes ago, Keldon said:

And if you really got the money forget your gen3's and your flir and get some swir. Can see through glass, rain, smoke and if used with the right  illuminator still not seen by gen 3's or flir(illuminator that is) 

 

No head mounted SWIR solutions exist, additionally there is a short delay from image processing because it's a digital system.  If you like motion sickness from walking around, try using digital night vision. 

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Gen 1 is good for indoors / close distance but not the best for long distance and especially for milsim which you will probably see other NVG users.

 

I'll post comparisons between my gen1 pulsar challenger and gen 2 PVS14 below:


Left is pulsar challenger gen1 w/out IR with dimly lit room (still able to see with naked eye but still pretty dark), right is PVS14 gen2+ no IR in the same room but it's a bit darker this time

nightvision.thumb.jpg.c8b4d7cc1b3e501b66eb64d58b60dfa5.jpgIMG_20190402_102739317.thumb.jpg.f9a7bcd358a71363c80ac50846a13466.jpg

Notice the greater field of view in the gen2, its not just the amplification which is an advantage and also the better resolution and the edges of the image aren't warped.

 

If you want to use it for milsims and night games you are probably better off saving up for gen2, I've seen the armasight sirius SD gen2 go for £700 but i've also seen the pulsar challenger go for £100, I got mine for £130 on ebay.  So, I mean if you want to just see if you like night vision before going to gen2 and your willing to "waste" £100-200 then go for a second hand gen1 (I recommend pulsar challenger as it has the same mounting as PVS14) but if you know you are going to use it for milsim, then just save up for something better.

 

Just remember though that the night vision itself isn't where the costs end... mounts... illuminators...lasers....peq boxes ect are very expensive also and you can't really cheap out otherwise you will have a bad experience.

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7 hours ago, GREG_BURTON said:

Gen 1 has its place, its usable in an open field or with a noticeable amount of IR light. Not great for airsoft in my opinion though. The reason for this is that the image will be grainy and fish eyed at the best of times and if you pump out IR light to make the device usable you will be a lighthouse for anyone else with NV and potentially for people without NV as well.

 

Stay away from any flir devices over £1500 they are honestly just pure shit anyone who tells you otherwise either hasn't used decent devices or is just straight up lying, you can get much better units for much less cost. The cobra demon will outperform them in every way BUT the embargo imposed on Russia means good luck getting a demon or titan anytime soon. 

 

Honestly just save up and go for a decent gen 2 unit or there are second hand gen 3 units kicking on FB pages all the time. I have used gen1, 2, 3, monos, binos, clip-ons so have a decent amount of experience but would suggest have a budget of at least £2000, £1500 for the unit and £500 for mounts, lights, lasers etc. 

 

If anyone has questions about NV message me on here, I have helped quite a few people on FB out with NV as when i first started i found the scene is very elitist and not willing to help noobs, so i always have time to answer questions about anything NV to new comers.

 

 

Appreciate it!

I posted in a FB group about NV and all I got was a bunch d**k heads comment a load of trash because I was considering Gen1. I agree with your elitist comment, which is what I experienced on the FB group.

Needless to say I left the group and glad I got a better response on this forum.

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3 hours ago, DannyG said:

 

Appreciate it!

I posted in a FB group about NV and all I got was a bunch d**k heads comment a load of trash because I was considering Gen1. I agree with your elitist comment, which is what I experienced on the FB group.

Needless to say I left the group and glad I got a better response on this forum.

Gen 1 is very close to useless for airsoft though. In my opinion the people who replied on your FB post were probably mostly right just how they put their point across could be seen as them being dickheads. Anyone that put "poor lol" or "gen 1 is for the poors" that is just bants in the NV world don't take it seriously. Although i don't know the one you are talking about so they could have been dickheads. The thing is also that question gets asked by new comers into almost every NV group i have £300 what gen 1 device should i go for and anything other than save up is probably the wrong answer, which is what people don't want to hear, but i would rather be honest with someone they get mad at me and they don't waste their money than make them feel good they buy a gen 1 unit for airsoft and then realise it doesn't do what they thought it would.

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I wouldn't say gen1 is entirely useless, the only useful application I would see is if you played solely indoors and it's dark. No matter the generation of nvg you need atleast some ambient light source to be able to see whether that be star light, moon light or light pollution. So indoors when it's pitch black (no external light) even gen3 will need to have an ir illuminator. I have friends who also just wear their gen1 just for the look instead of fake nods. It depends on what you are using it for but I could see why someone might want gen1. That being said if the above is what you are solely going to do then maybe you could get one for £100-150 and if you don't like it then that's not a huge investment you made.

 

But with what you said you want to use it for, definitely get gen 2 (or above) and get a good one. My first gen2 was dipol d128 but it has the same housing and lens as the cobra demon and it was God awful, the picture was grainy and the resolution was bad.

 

dipold129.png.41b957a567ade2b5474bd7227d2a2e09.png


As you can see, even though it's gen2 it's not the best quality. It amplifies light more but the image was super grainy, I ended up returning it and getting a refund.

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13 minutes ago, Lasbrisas17 said:

I wouldn't say gen1 is entirely useless, the only useful application I would see is if you played solely indoors and it's dark. No matter the generation of nvg you need atleast some ambient light source to be able to see whether that be star light, moon light or light pollution. So indoors when it's pitch black (no external light) even gen3 will need to have an ir illuminator. I have friends who also just wear their gen1 just for the look instead of fake nods. It depends on what you are using it for but I could see why someone might want gen1. That being said if the above is what you are solely going to do then maybe you could get one for £100-150 and if you don't like it then that's not a huge investment you made.

 

But with what you said you want to use it for, definitely get gen 2 (or above) and get a good one. My first gen2 was dipol (I forget the number) but it has the same housing and lens as the cobra demon and it was God awful, the picture was grainy and the resolution was bad.

i have never seen gen 3 (decent spec) tubes struggle in an urban environment however seen almost all struggle in deep dark woodland at night where there is next to 0 ambient light. You can get tubes that can handle this but they will be at least £6000 for the tubes not including the housing etc.

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2 minutes ago, GREG_BURTON said:

i have never seen gen 3 (decent spec) tubes struggle in an urban environment however seen almost all struggle in deep dark woodland at night where there is next to 0 ambient light. You can get tubes that can handle this but they will be at least £6000 for the tubes not including the housing etc.

Urban sure, gen2 and gen3 will be fine but this isn't what I was saying. I'm telling you if you go into a room with no windows and no light you won't see anything without IR, I challenge you to show me a video of someone doing just this. Night vision isn't magic, it works by amplifying available light ofc.

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1 minute ago, Lasbrisas17 said:

Urban sure, gen2 and gen3 will be fine but this isn't what I was saying. I'm telling you if you go into a room with no windows and no light you won't see anything without IR.

Sorry my mistake. Were you saying all NV needs some form of light? I have never been airsofting and encountered a room so dark NV didn't work in it, but i have never been airsofting underground like a bunker or something.

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12 hours ago, GREG_BURTON said:

Me crouching in a bush through NV with the COTI turned off then on. Can't hide from thermal.

136886078_PVS-14NOCOTI.thumb.png.52bf80e142f9a590cd5fd8282bbb9130.png745887116_PVS-14COTI.thumb.png.653771a316711f857541a053b5cf19f6.png

That's crazy... is that on a unit that's mounted to your lid or a handheld device?

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There's bits of the old nuclear bunker complex that F&O do games in where I've completely blacked out my NODs and had to use IR, a couple of times in super dense woodland on a dark night I've used a bit of illumination to make the floor a bit clearer too.  

 

Couple of guys I know hired some ACT Gen2 PVS14-alikes at a CAG milsim game and none of us were particularly impressed by the performance, moving through buildings they were having to use IR quite a lot. 

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