Machine guns

[BibbsOnTour]

On 21/08/2019 at 20:17, Adolf Hamster said:

the agm one does not like 11.1v though, ask me how i know......

How do you know? 🙂

[Lollingsgrad]

34 minutes ago, Tackle said:

many of the sites I used to play banned their use because people take the piss, & end up more like speedsofters, what next, snipers leading the assault specialising in "360 no scope kills", absolutely no realism

 

I don't think realism should be enforced anywhere but milsim. If someone wants to run around with a HPA tapped hi-capa with a drum mag on an open skirmish day that's cool. Not the kind of game I want to play myself but I'll take a disadvantage in exchange for more fun.

[BibbsOnTour]

39 minutes ago, Tackle said:

might as well have one model of "gun", capable of everything (which the anti gun/airsoft lobbies would probably love to push for, especially if it had no resemblance to a real gun)

Think about it ?

p-p-p-paint...ball...?

[Tackle]

20 minutes ago, Lollingsgrad said:

 

I don't think realism should be enforced anywhere but milsim. If someone wants to run around with a HPA tapped hi-capa with a drum mag on an open skirmish day that's cool. Not the kind of game I want to play myself but I'll take a disadvantage in exchange for more fun.

 

18 minutes ago, BibbsOnTour said:

p-p-p-paint...ball...?

lol, exactly.

no I'm not suggesting a blanket ban or enforced use everywhere of replicas so that they duplicate their real steel counterparts in use.

BUT, that's not to say that any number of real world scenarios, which aren't that far fetched, couldn't bring in to question our need for such a wide assortment of replicas, there may come a time when any "gun" related pastime may have to justify its existence, & in our case, being able to show that, for example, support guns are used in a support rule, snipers as snipers (prob why I don't like that bastardised Ares sniper pistol "thing"), etc etc, I'm sure you get my drift.

also, everytime we hear of units in the military & law enforcement using airsoft as a viable training tool, that adds more credence to our sport, which all helps.

[Adolf Hamster]

problem is that an mg42 should be running the same fps as a boltgun because in theory it's real counterpart is firing full power rifle ammo, same goes for the m60. and i'm not sure how folk would like 500fps full auto guns with box mags being a thing, no matter how representative it would be.

[jcheeseright]

5 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

problem is that an mg42 should be running the same fps as a boltgun because in theory it's real counterpart is firing full power rifle ammo, same goes for the m60. and i'm not sure how folk would like 500fps full auto guns with box mags being a thing, no matter how representative it would be.

 

One of the most retarded things I've read on here for a while.  

 

Should a 9mm pistol replica should have a power limit 1/3 that of a 5.56mm rifle replica? 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, jcheeseright said:

 

One of the most retarded things I've read on here for a while.  

 

Should a 9mm pistol replica should have a power limit 1/3 that of a 5.56mm rifle replica? 

 

it was in response to this notion of realism as it applies to airsoft support guns, i'm not seriously suggesting it, just pointing out that if you want these things to be used the same way their real counterparts are they need to have the same capabilities.

 

and yes in this particular scenario a pistol would need to be significantly lower power than a rifle.

 

this is of course assuming the objective is to eliminate the validity of say an arp as a more effective alternative to an m60 in airsoft.

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

problem is that an mg42 should be running the same fps as a boltgun because in theory it's real counterpart is firing full power rifle ammo, same goes for the m60. and i'm not sure how folk would like 500fps full auto guns with box mags being a thing, no matter how representative it would be.

Let's not get silly, my thoughts pertain to the real world usage, but obviously not the damage capability, bad enough try to get some twats to take their hits, imagine if you shout "take yer hits mate", only for them to reply "nah mate, that pistols only a .22 in the real world, I'll just walk it off" 😳

[hunter511]

Best thing I've seen with MG's is one of my local sites who tend to run a semi auto only unless using a machine gun rule which also tends to involve having to deploy the bipod etc. Makes for a very different game experience and also means that using an MG as a support weapon does get you localised advantage.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

^^^

See, that I like, but then you'll get folk who will want to use their DSG Firehawks, or using speedsoft trembly-triggers to spam 30rps on "semi".

 

Can't please all the airsofters all the time, I guess.

[hunter511]

@Rogerborg Fortunately its a small site with a quite tight group of players who all enjoy the kind of games the site runs which protects it from the dsg firehawk speedsoft crowd.

[Prisce]

RIFT Airsoft offer a different approach to this. Designated Support guns(that actually look like support guns) are allowed 370fps, but must be used as intended. 

 

Mounted/Bipod out, 3 second trigger pulls, and acting sensibly with it. No one there has abused said rules and I think it works really well.

[hunter511]

@Prisce.... not arguing but is that not uncomfortably close to the point where full auto capable guns start becoming section 5 firearms according to the legal "lethality" figures?

[Tackle]

19 hours ago, hunter511 said:

Best thing I've seen with MG's is one of my local sites who tend to run a semi auto only unless using a machine gun rule which also tends to involve having to deploy the bipod etc. Makes for a very different game experience and also means that using an MG as a support weapon does get you localised advantage.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Prisce said:

RIFT Airsoft offer a different approach to this. Designated Support guns(that actually look like support guns) are allowed 370fps, but must be used as intended. 

 

Mounted/Bipod out, 3 second trigger pulls, and acting sensibly with it. No one there has abused said rules and I think it works really well.

That's what I mean, proper usage, one private game I played a couple of support guns didn't have bipods, so it was agreed that all support guns couldn't be used on the move, ideally leaning on cover or if caught in the open you had to take a knee, & short bursts only.

worked really well, no pisstaking & made people actually plan tactically, instead of the usual headless chicken hosefest.

[Prisce]

3 hours ago, hunter511 said:

@Prisce.... not arguing but is that not uncomfortably close to the point where full auto capable guns start becoming section 5 firearms according to the legal "lethality" figures?

370 is the hard limit. And if you use it like a pleb, your done. 

[Northman]

In a game where there are waves upon waves of snipers thanks to YouTube ‘celebrities’ be prepared for the inevitable salvoes of .48s that will be bouncing off your head if you run a static LMG, like a MG42. 

 

It’s only worth doing if your site lets real LMGs run at 400+ FPS and even then you need to have the proper setup and adjust your play to suit.  

 

 

[Tackle]

20 minutes ago, Northman said:

In a game where there are waves upon waves of snipers thanks to YouTube ‘celebrities’ be prepared for the inevitable salvoes of .48s that will be bouncing off your head if you run a static LMG, like a MG42. 

 

It’s only worth doing if your site lets real LMGs run at 400+ FPS and even then you need to have the proper setup and adjust your play to suit.  

 

 

lmg's running at 400+ fps, are you on day release or something 😵.

even if we ignore the obvious legal implications, who you gonna trust with these "firearms", cos in my experience hot guns attract small dicked eedjits like a moth to a flame, the kind of dickheads you can guarantee will conveniently"forget" about overkill & med rules.

thanks for your input 😉

[Northman]

25 minutes ago, Tackle said:

lmg's running at 400+ fps, are you on day release or something 😵.

even if we ignore the obvious legal implications, who you gonna trust with these "firearms", cos in my experience hot guns attract small dicked eedjits like a moth to a flame, the kind of dickheads you can guarantee will conveniently"forget" about overkill & med rules.

thanks for your input 😉

 

Thanks for the reply and insinuation that I’m on day release.

 

From memory I’ve played at two sites where the limits were that high and in both cases it was heavily policed in terms of minimum engagement distance, the LMG that it applied to and the requirement for a side arm.

 

This was some time ago but I have to say it added a new dynamic to the game in that LMGs like your MG42’s, GPMGs and I remember one chap having a .30cal - could actually dominate ground rather than being just another large AEG with a box mag.

 

Thanks for your input 🙃

 

Edit - a mate just confirmed it was a 400fps hard limit not 400+ as per my previous. 🤗

 

[E21A]

 

31 minutes ago, Northman said:

Thanks for your input 🙃

Edit - a mate just confirmed it was a 400fps hard limit not 400+ as per my previous. 🤗

 

 

If it’s full auto it’s still illegal 

[Rogerborg]

16 hours ago, Northman said:

it was heavily policed

 

Past tense.

 

Since the Policing and Crime Act 2017, section 125 came in, anything shooting full auto that's capable[*] of producing over 1.3J (~375fps with 0.2g) is unambiguously a section 5 prohibited firearm.

 

It doesn't make much sense, we don't have to like it, but we can't ignore it.

 

[*} Dibble can explicitly drop a steel BB, or lead for that matter, in there.  The restriction is on what it can produce, not what you're currently running it with.

[Adolf Hamster]

11 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

[*} Dibble can explicitly drop a steel BB, or lead for that matter, in there.  The restriction is on what it can produce, not what you're currently running it with.

 

which is a scary prospect without precedent, as basically anything that can joule creep is going to end up being sketchy if you're doing that.

 

and i'm sure the "you just fucked up my gun that's why we don't run steel!" defence is going to work perfectly well.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

which is a scary prospect without precedent, as basically anything that can joule creep is going to end up being sketchy if you're doing that.

 

Yes, it can. 

 

I can see why the legislation says "is not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level" though.  The issue isn't how the gun is being used, it's how it could be abused.

 

It doesn't currently keep me awake at nights, but if I hear of any prosecutions for it, I may have to rethink that.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Yes, it can. 

 

I can see why the legislation says "is not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level" though.  The issue isn't how the gun is being used, it's how it could be abused.

 

It doesn't currently keep me awake at nights, but if I hear of any prosecutions for it, I may have to rethink that.

 

it is a problem, without a precedent there's a lot of issues, kinda makes almost all of airsoft sit in a grey area.

 

of course i don't imagine it's going to be a problem as long as there aren't enough instances of people taking the mick, but if they do come down on the side of being very strict (which given how in public perceptions of anything "gun" are is very possible) i can see there being issues.

 

for example every hpa in the country could instantly be ruled out, which is going to be an expensive day for many players.

[Lollingsgrad]

19 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Since the Policing and Crime Act 2017, section 125 came in, anything shooting full auto that's capable[*] of producing over 1.3J (~375fps with 0.2g) is unambiguously a section 5 prohibited firearm.

 

So this is interesting and upsetting. I'm sure you're right because you're normally hot on this subject but I'm curious to hear where you got this from. I thought the current understanding was that if this limit is exceeded it's unclear what this means but we assumed it fell into section 5?

[Tackle]

it becomes section 5 because there's no alternative, no middle ground.

while we all have gripes about vcra & associated laws that affect us, it is what it is, & it defines what we can do.

the problem isn't the government/authorities (yet ?), its the individuals who feel that our toys are just that, toys, so what harm is there to push the boundaries a bit, what's the worst that

could happen, these same people look at airsoft abroad & think higher limits work there so again, what's the harm.

worst part of it is, one of the biggest threats to airsoft are the cheats, small dicked losers that do their best to squeeze more range by upping fps post chrono, they're not just cheating us they're deluding themselves, & when people lose eyes & the HSE start taking notice, & it will happen, it'll fuck it up for the remaining 98% of law abiding genuine players.