THE TM MWS thread

[P4radox]

Just got the new SAA Pmags yesterday,

This is the updated version much better than the previous reviews ,was tested today in under proper war circiumstances, maybe the empty lever still needs some modification but haven't got serious problems with them, I need more time and tests before tell anything definitive !

(1st pic-> lower is the orginal one)

[GregArm]

2 hours ago, P4radox said:

 

Where did you buy these SSA Pmags and which store are they currently in?

[P4radox]

1 hour ago, GregArm said:

Where did you buy these SSA Pmags and which store are they currently in?

Hi !

From rainbow8, currently idk  check boomarms/rainbow8

 

[RMDavis]

First game out with the MWS/Mini Urgi build, and what can say about this truly fantastic RIF that every other owner hasn't already said!?

 

Apart from the fact it's all bloody true! 😁

 

I should of moved over to a GBBR a long time ago, and anyone on the fence reading this thread I urge you to take the plunge!

 

The performance and consistency is incredible, and with a zero'd Vortex Crossfire it's so much fun to use.

 

Taking out a guy who's using a HPA minigun, with a single shot is extremely satisfying... 😂 (skirmish fun times)

 

 

 

 

[occidio]

3 hours ago, RMDavis said:

 

And the gun looks good  

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, P4radox said:

 

14 hours ago, GregArm said:

Where did you buy these SSA Pmags and which store are they currently in?

same fps and same gas efficiency?

And are the thing with the bolt fixed?

[Arassuil]

On 26/07/2020 at 10:23, Hypokondrikern said:

Yeah, I’d also like to know - can’t find any info on these products through the vendors selling them. Yet, I’d rather test one of mysterious G&Ps than RA-tech ( which I have only had bad experiences with in other replicas ) 

 

only in Airsoft where there is so much myth and lack of info regarding products. In the end - I just want a modification to make my MWS safe for fielding. 
 

anyway - I’ll send an email to Redwolf and ask regarding G&P npas. They might know more than what they write on the product page. 

 

Hi,

 

I'm a long time lurker, but Have had an MWS for a while. I have the 4.5 (Gold) G&P npas and a 370mm Inner Barrel and just checked it out. I generally set it between 1.1 - 1.2 joules on .3g's which is around the 290fps mark, which is with the valve around 1/3rd open on Green Gas. I remember when I first installed it with it fully opened, I was getting around 450. 

 

Hope that helps.

 

[Sy87]

10 hours ago, Arassuil said:

 

Hi,

 

I'm a long time lurker, but Have had an MWS for a while. I have the 4.5 (Gold) G&P npas and a 370mm Inner Barrel and just checked it out. I generally set it between 1.1 - 1.2 joules on .3g's which is around the 290fps mark, which is with the valve around 1/3rd open on Green Gas. I remember when I first installed it with it fully opened, I was getting around 450. 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you for the answer. I am thinking of getting the 4.5 as well. I am wondering If i need to threadlock the screw once the adjustment is set correctly? 

[Hypokondrikern]

@Arassuil , the lurking champ! Thanks! 

 

[occidio]

Will this fit the MWS 

https://www.anareus.cz/gb/363-410mm/4273-maple-leaf-602-precision-inner-barrel-for-gbb-370mm--MPLF021.html

[Arassuil]

No Problem and am Happy to help. I had a bit of time over lunch so here's a bit more information.

 

I installed it just before the pandemic so I've only been able to field it twice so I don't know about long term, but threadlock wasn't needed. I set it in the morning and checked it during the lunchtime break and it did not need readjusting.

 

Attached are a few pictures. The BCG with the valve installed and where it sits to get my desired FPS.

 

 

I also maxed it and crono'd some rounds to give an idea of the max fps of this 4.5 valve. To get the variables out of the way, this is standard TM BCG (except for springs), 6.03 370mm barrel, Modify tan rubber, CNC'd hop arm with some hop applied. Mag was probably half full.

 

 

 

Lastly, the MWS in question

 

 

[GregArm]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:05 PM, occidio said:

And the gun looks good  

 

 

 

 

same fps and same gas efficiency?

And are the thing with the bolt fixed?

I haven't received the bolt yet. It's still on the way.

Guys.  Who knows, if I now order PMAGS from this store, with delivery to Germany.  Who ordered it here?

 

http://www.boomarms.com/shop/item.cfm?id=ACE-PMAG-MWS-BK&curr_code=USD

[SSPKali]

3 hours ago, Arassuil said:

 

 

Attached are a few pictures. The BCG with the valve installed and where it sits to get my desired FPS.

 

 

 

I also maxed it and crono'd some rounds to give an idea of the max fps of this 4.5 valve. To get the variables out of the way, this is standard TM BCG (except for springs), 6.03 370mm barrel, Modify tan rubber, CNC'd hop arm with some hop applied. Mag was probably half full.

 

 

 

 

 

That is really consistent! my RA silver NPAS manages +/- 6fps and after 10 shots it really drops due to mag cool down.

 

Got my AEG +/- 1fps but pretty sure a GBBR won't do that (or need to)

 

Just tested it and on 0.28g it is between 278 and 290fps (one outlier at 294fps, so still under site limit)

 

DP lightweight bolt, AG nozzle, DP springs and the RA NPAS almost all the way closed. Modify Tan bucking hopping 0.32g and a Crazy Jet 250mm barrel. No idea on bore as previous owner installed it.

[Davegolf]

@Arassuil nice, not enough FSP rails in use!

[occidio]

I have a bit of a hard time with these inner barrels, is there a difference in GBBR barrels? with AEG they all fit, minus length, but here I see that someone says  fits WE, KWA, TM MWS etc plus sometimes says certain others?

[alxndrhll]

Well, well, well. I've finally joined the club. Have an optic and optic mount en route alongside a pressure switch for the light and a new grip. Probably going to keep it fairly simple and slick, would be a shame to cover too much of it up!

 

 

 

Cheers,
Alex

[Davegolf]

2 hours ago, occidio said:

I have a bit of a hard time with these inner barrels, is there a difference in GBBR barrels? with AEG they all fit, minus length, but here I see that someone says  fits WE, KWA, TM MWS etc plus sometimes says certain others?

 

The MWS has quite a large cutout compared to most GBBs

Thats why most MWS compatible inner barrels are advertised as such.

 

Obv AEG won't fit as they do not have a cutout, but a window.

[Sy87]

15 hours ago, Arassuil said:

No Problem and am Happy to help. I had a bit of time over lunch so here's a bit more information.

 

I installed it just before the pandemic so I've only been able to field it twice so I don't know about long term, but threadlock wasn't needed. I set it in the morning and checked it during the lunchtime break and it did not need readjusting.

 

Attached are a few pictures. The BCG with the valve installed and where it sits to get my desired FPS.

 

 

I also maxed it and crono'd some rounds to give an idea of the max fps of this 4.5 valve. To get the variables out of the way, this is standard TM BCG (except for springs), 6.03 370mm barrel, Modify tan rubber, CNC'd hop arm with some hop applied. Mag was probably half full.

 

 

 

Lastly, the MWS in question

 

 

That is quite consistent shots 👍. With the nozzle full open it shoots 400 with 0.3s ? What fps do you usually set it to?

[Arassuil]

I'm in the UK and set it so it's not firing over 1.2 Joules which is around the 280-290 mark for .3's.

 

I only have .3's floating around as I find they are the best for me for the accuracy/price and they work well in my sidearm, which I find myself using a lot more

 

@Davegolf thanks, I randomly saw the FSP on sale and picked it up for something different and now it's just grown on me too much.

[Sy87]

Are these npas drop in fit or does it require sanding? 

[Arassuil]

drop in on a stock TM Nozzle.

[P4radox]

21 hours ago, GregArm said:

I haven't received the bolt yet. It's still on the way.

Guys.  Who knows, if I now order PMAGS from this store, with delivery to Germany.  Who ordered it here?

 

http://www.boomarms.com/shop/item.cfm?id=ACE-PMAG-MWS-BK&curr_code=USD

 

On 27/07/2020 at 14:05, occidio said:

And the gun looks good  

 

 

 

 

same fps and same gas efficiency?

And are the thing with the bolt fixed?

Just run out of propane but Im gonna testing again soon, especially haven't felt this pmag-bolt issue but (I didn't focused on that ,probably they solved that)

[occidio]

2 hours ago, Arassuil said:

I'm in the UK and set it so it's not firing over 1.2 Joules which is around the 280-290 mark for .3's.

 

I only have .3's floating around as I find they are the best for me for the accuracy/price and they work well in my sidearm, which I find myself using a lot more

 

@Davegolf thanks, I randomly saw the FSP on sale and picked it up for something different and now it's just grown on me too much.

Nice..

what was the joule on the middle setting? and at what temperature?

[Hypokondrikern]

Someone getting this?

 

https://www.wgcshop.com/products/dytac-slr-b15-cnc-aluminum-receiver-for-marui-mws-m4-gbbr

 

[occidio]

17 hours ago, Davegolf said:

 

The MWS has quite a large cutout compared to most GBBs

Thats why most MWS compatible inner barrels are advertised as such.

 

Obv AEG won't fit as they do not have a cutout, but a window.

okey. for the hop up "nub" ?   Will the ML barrels fit?

 

[SSPKali]

Right, grab a cuppa as this is a long one with charts and graphs!

 

So, having found that my current MWS set up was less than consistent on FPS I decided to play about with the parts I had to find the best (ie most consistent) set up available. 

 

Quick Notes: 

 

RA Black NPAS - Lose fit in TM nozzle, very lose fit in Angry Gun nozzle (probable source of inconsistency) Requires safety-pin to stop it rotating while using special tool to wind in or out. Hard to see in nozzle when adjusting.

 

Angry Gun adjustable valve - Good fit in Angry Gun nozzle, was too large to fit in TM nozzle. Had a drop of superglue added to rear of grub screw to prevent it unscrewing and flying out the barrel! It was a good tight fit in the screw threads so unlikely. Easy to adjust with allen key, nozzle marked "+ more / - less" on the nozzle to aid adjustment

 

RA Silver NPAS - Had been sanded around circumference to fit smoothly in TM nozzle, was a bit lose in Angry Gun. Easier to see when adjusting it, again it requires safety-pin to stop it rotating while using special tool to wind in or out.

 

Things I did not change:

• Nuprol Green Gas / v2 MWS magazine, unmodified / 0.28g G&G BBs.
• Modify Tan Bucking / Laylax hop arm / Crazy Jet 250mm barrel.
• G&P highspeed buffer / SixG HSB / std recoil spring.
• Xcoretech X3200 Chrono
• The weather, sunny 22deg C. All tests conducted out of direct sunlight
• Dynamic Precision green nozzle cup (moved between test setups)

 

Magazine given a 10s charge, left for 30mins. Given a 4s top-up and left for 5mins between tests

 

What I changed:

 

Initially I used the Dynamic Precision lightweight bolt for tests #1 and #2

 

• Test 1: Angry Gun Nozzle and valve, Dynamic Precision nozzle spring. (GREY plot)

 

• Test 2: TM stock nozzle, RA Silver NPAS, Dynamic Precision nozzle spring. (ORANGE plot)

 

• Test 3: TM Stock bolt with RA Silver NPAS, Dynamic Precision nozzle spring. (RED plot)

 

• Test 4: Dynamic Precision bolt, Angry Gun nozzle, Dynamic Precision nozzle spring, RA Black NPAS (this was conducted a couple of days ago, and kicked off the investigation, otherwise all the same) (BLACK plot)

 

Results:

Have a look at the two charts, both have the same data, but the scatter graph has the best-fit line added to aid in looking for the most consistent set up.

 

The setup #3 was the most consistent, but changing to the DP bolt(#2) gave almost the same consistency but slightly higher FPS (maybe more gas efficient?) The one outlier at 305fps spoilt it somewhat so maybe over 20-35rds it might be just as good as #3? 

 

The TM bolt, due to the extra weight, gave more recoil, but probably at the expense of gas efficiency. I feel this is an acceptable trade-off as the action was still pretty snappy (thanks in part to the SixG HSB) and full auto was still fast enough. The DP lightweight piston probably saves a little gas and can eke out a few more rounds from a magazine but it will likely be marginal and at the expense of recoil felt (if you want low recoil and high RPS....get an AEG!)

 

Conclusions:

The TM Nozzle with the modified RA Silver NPAS seems to be the most consistent, it is likely that the bolt (TM or DP) has little bearing on the outcome in terms of FPS consistency. Recoil and gas efficiency is where these make a difference.

 

The TM Nozzle with the RA Black NPAS (built for the MWS system) is a loser fit and will likely have a wider variance, but not as bad as the larger internal-bore Angry Gun nozzle! (I would guess it would be around the 17-19fps spread...maybe one day I'll check!)

 

So, if you use Angry Gun parts...use the whole thing and don't change out valves/NPAS. Or better yet, if other experiences are to go by, just stick to TM!

 

If you are sticking with TM nozzles try the RA Tech Silver NPAS and spend 5mins with some fine wet&dry carefully sanding the external diameter until it drops in and moves freely. If you can find a Black on that is a suitable alternative...oh and in both cases carry a safety pin in your tool box to adjust it