Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 I don't think anyone's suggesting glasses in the safe zone be compulsory, that'd be a proper pain in the ass for sites to administer. A few people are leaning in that direction on this thread.It would be impossible to enforce because a lot players wear face masks so you would have to provide an extra safe zone to change eyepro. Still easier than a gunzone and safezone though that would never work. I am not leaving my gun alone because frankly I don't trust anyone not mess around with it. I have had a couple of instances including someone test firing it in the regen and was about to take it out for a go when I left it as I was using knife only so now it stays near me as much as possible. I do think the sock idea is good one a lot of sites in the US have that rule and it would be easy to implement. I also think sites should be more proactive in dealing with safety infractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Samurai Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 I have signed a liabilty waiver at several sites but cannot remember what the waiver does and does not cover. Suppose it depnds on where the negligence lies and how much each party is at fault. Those are not there to protect you. Those are to protect the site from you, so you can't sue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacarathe Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Those are not there to protect you. Those are to protect the site from you, so you can't sue them. Yep, and while I might not convince a court that I hadn't consented to be shot while wearing eye pro or in the designated game zone, I'd bet I'd succeed if I was shot in the safe zone. That doesn't mean there was a crime, only that the perpetrator couldn't argue consent, or an accepted risk by a victim. EDIT: royally ballsed up the logic in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco290 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 To be fair, we've not actually any evidence that the gun was dry fired (a deliberate and voluntary act) we only know that I gun was discharged while pointed at another persons face, in a safe zone. Bring a springer, I suppose its possible it went off on its own, or was knocked during handling(?). I can't remember if I posted this or not but I spoke with guy who fired the gun for quite a while after it happened basically trying to calm him down while my mate stayed with the injured guy. He told me he'd pulled the trigger. From the result it must have been pointed at the lads face. Maybe the full story will come out, maybe it won't. Ultimately the guy who pulled the trigger is at fault but I believe if the marshals had been on top of all the dry firing in the safe zone from the off then this may have been prevented. Additionally if they'd been a bit more on top of clearing guns coming in, this would have been prevented. Also if the guy had properly unloaded his rifle he wouldn't have paid the price he has. A lot of factors and while the marshals aren't completely to blame they may well have been able to prevent this. On the subject of eye pro in safe zones it's a safe zone for a reason. It's a zone where you should feel safe to remove protective gear. It's not a f*ck about with your gun zone or shoot your mate in the arse zone. Current rules properly enforced should be enough. X site where we usually play are so on top of dry firing it sometimes feels OTT but this just shows why they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James1989 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 To be fair, we've not actually any evidence that the gun was dry fired (a deliberate and voluntary act) we only know that I gun was discharged while pointed at another persons face, in a safe zone. Being a springer, I suppose its possible it went off on its own, or was knocked during handling(?). No but guns in the safe zone should be unmagged and emptied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacarathe Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 No but guns in the safe zone should be unmagged and emptied No, guns should be treated as loaded at all times, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James1989 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 No, guns should be treated as loaded at all times, period. Fair enough, but that was my point if everyone followed the rules it wouldnt have happened my point was about there being no blanket backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacarathe Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Ultimately the guy who pulled the trigger is at fault but I believe if the marshals had been on top of all the dry firing in the safe zone from the off then this may have been prevented. Additionally if they'd been a bit more on top of clearing guns coming in, this would have been prevented. Also if the guy had properly unloaded his rifle he wouldn't have paid the price he has. A lot of factors and while the marshals aren't completely to blame they may well have been able to prevent this. Thanks for that information. I don't know how airsoft BASR operate, so all I can do is agree with you here. I hope it's not just me that thinks this would be [in theory] a whole lot worse if the victim bore zero responsibility for this incident. I'm still reeling over the idea the site stayed open to play airsoft after this happened. Fair enough, but that was my point if everyone followed the rules it wouldnt have happened my point was about there being no blanket backlash. That's actually quite complex, if the guy that pulled the trigger did not know the gun was ready to fire, whether or not it was loaded, did he intend to dry fire the gun? If not, then no amount of enforcing of rules would of prevented this. If he knew the gun was ready to fire, irrespective of whether it was loaded, words cannot describe politely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco290 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm still reeling over the idea the site stayed open to play airsoft after this happened. That summed the place up for me. I look in one direction there's an air ambulance crew tending to an eye injury. In the other direction through the mesh fence from the safe zone there's people firing (towards the safe zone) to empty their mags! That and what we overheard from the staff as we walked out. They were having a bit of a debrief and someone said 'yea but they can't prove that' I hope is heard wrong or it was out of context but if I didn't ffs. There comes a time when you just have to hold your hands up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters jcheeseright Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 The whole situation is fucked up with this one. I'm inclined to lean towards it being largely the fault of the site, had they been stricter with their policy of clearing guns before entering the safe zone and had they insisted on no dry firing of guns in the safe zone this would have been much less likely to happen. In order for something like this to occur you need lots of little things to go wrong; gun not checked correctly on entering the safe zone dry firing permitted in the safe zone gun handed over loaded and ready to fire gun pointed at face trigger pulled Remove any one of those things and this accident never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I was there too yesterday, after hearing the screams of the young lad and seeing him run to the marshals was quite shocking. I and a few others chose not to go out in further skirmishes, personally I did find it a little inappropriate the day carried on. There were checks on mags before entering the safezone but no positive command to clear the barrel. Didn't see the incident first hand so cant comment, but I think kids that age should always be under adult supervision, Im sure there were a few groups on their own. I'm really new Airsoft, yesterday was only my second skirmish and this has really honed in the real dangers of this activity. Hurting yourself due to negligence is one thing but someone else is inexcusable. People will alway lapse in concentration so agree all guns in the safe zone should be muzzled with a sock. If I continue in airsoft I will use one regardless and keep my eyewear on at all times. I really do fear for his sight and do hope him a full recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters NickM Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 jcheese in addition the first mistake in this chain of small things that went wrong was "gun not unloaded correctly". If only one of these issues was dealt with correctly prior to the incident it never would have happened. For those who don't know there are several steps to clear a BASR and if done, each effectively makes it safe. Hell there is the right way to clear a BASR with a short list of steps, but there is one simple one which is to fire in a safe direction and not cock again. The rest of the steps become redundant because there shouldn't be any tension in the spring which might have allowed the gun to fire but they are expected to be done just on the off chance something has gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacarathe Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I was there too yesterday, after hearing the screams of the young lad and seeing him run to the marshals was quite shocking. I and a few others chose not to go out in further skirmishes, personally I did find it a little inappropriate the day carried on. There were checks on mags before entering the safezone but no positive command to clear the barrel. Didn't see the incident first hand so cant comment, but I think kids that age should always be under adult supervision, Im sure there were a few groups on their own. I'm really new Airsoft, yesterday was only my second skirmish and this has really honed in the real dangers of this activity. Hurting yourself due to negligence is one thing but someone else is inexcusable. People will alway lapse in concentration so agree all guns in the safe zone should be muzzled with a sock. There's no doubt a lot of opinion on this, but its not black and white, or fair, to blame the kid that pulled the trigger (unless he was the one that cocked it). If I continue in airsoft I will use one regardless and keep my eyewear on at all times. This is a very uncommon event, possible a country first. jcheese in addition the first mistake in this chain of small things that went wrong was "gun not unloaded correctly". If only one of these issues was dealt with correctly prior to the incident it never would have happened. For those who don't know there are several steps to clear a BASR and if done, each effectively makes it safe. Hell there is the right way to clear a BASR with a short list of steps, but there is one simple one which is to fire in a safe direction and not cock again. The rest of the steps become redundant because there shouldn't be any tension in the spring which might have allowed the gun to fire but they are expected to be done just on the off chance something has gone wrong. Thanks for this. I wonder if it was re-cocked or not cleared. Given that evidence indicates the users were adolescent I'm going to presume the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There's no doubt a lot of opinion on this, but its not black and white, or fair, to blame the kid that pulled the trigger. This is a very uncommon event, possible a country first. Apologies just to clarify, I was not apportioning blame in any way and I agree it would not fair. I wrote that from a first person perspective if for any reason my gun was not safe and I had a lapse of concentration having the gun muzzled would mitigate a lot of the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco290 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Slick I would urge you to continue or at least give other airsoft sites a go, using whatever measures you feel appropriate. Although at the time this was a pretty shocking thing to witness as other have said it is thankfully extremely rare, not just in this country but in the global airsoft community. One other factor that made this incident as serious as it is was where the bb went. I'm not sure of the range it was fired from but a few centimetres has basically been the difference between a close shave/ stiches / loss of sight in an eye. I'm still hoping that his sight was saved but in reality I can't see how it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm still hoping that his sight was saved but in reality I can't see how it could be.He might be ok, people have had nails and all sorts go right through the eye and still recovered full or most of their vision.Depends whats actually damaged but lets just hope for the best outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Slick I would urge you to continue or at least give other airsoft sites a go, using whatever measures you feel appropriate. Although at the time this was a pretty shocking thing to witness as other have said it is thankfully extremely rare, not just in this country but in the global airsoft community. One other factor that made this incident as serious as it is was where the bb went. I'm not sure of the range it was fired from but a few centimetres has basically been the difference between a close shave/ stiches / loss of sight in an eye. I'm still hoping that his sight was saved but in reality I can't see how it could be. Both my skirmishes have been with Absolute(reading and Maidenhead), enjoyed them tremendously and been a positive experience bar that incident. I'm just now really wary of the safety aspects, there are always going to be numpties (myself included), I gather from friends other sites are far more strict and regimental Like everyone else has already said you only need a few procedures in place to ensure a safer environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Esoterick Posted March 21, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 21, 2016 It's baffling why people insist on using absolute and the affiliated special airsoft supplies I wish people got kicked out for the day for firing a weapon in the safe zone at the very least. Add it to to the briefing: "we run a zero tolerance policy on dry firing in the safezone, anyone caught doing so will be asked to leave. If you have an issue with this please speak to one of the staff after the briefing for a refund" Sadly I see people dry firing in the safezone pretty much every game I go to and rarely does anyone say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted March 21, 2016 Head Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2016 So has anyone done a review of Absolute Airsoft Maidenhead? Could be worth a mention of good and bad points to help the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafta Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Regarding dry fire in safe zone: The Mall is where I've played literally all of my games so far, they seem pretty hot on all aspects of safety. But dry firing in the safe zone seems to be acceptable there. Obviously everywhere does things differently, but I think I will take extra caution personally in the future. Be safe out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkee Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Regarding dry fire in safe zone: The Mall is where I've played literally all of my games so far, they seem pretty hot on all aspects of safety. But dry firing in the safe zone seems to be acceptable there. Obviously everywhere does things differently, but I think I will take extra caution personally in the future. Be safe out there I play the Mall a lot and can tell you now they are shit hot on checking mags are out of guns coming back into the safe zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafta Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I agree with you on that one for sure. But they don't have any rules regarding dry firing in the safe zone. Nor having your gun switched to safety (which is one of the things I will be doing anyway from here on in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo88 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's terrible for the boy. Im interested to know why the other guy was pointing a gun at his face in the first place? Thankfully it's rare someone gets a eye shotout and hopefully no one gets put off playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacarathe Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's terrible for the boy. Im interested to know why the other guy was pointing a gun at his face in the first place? Thankfully it's rare someone gets a eye shotout and hopefully no one gets put off playing. The whole point of this thread was that this occurrence hasn't got anything to do with playing airsoft. Or so I thought? As for rare, in it's context, again this is a unique occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Shizbazki Posted March 22, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 22, 2016 I have been to the following sites: Dragons Lair Airsoft Billericay Airsoft AWA Herts Red1 CQB So far i have found that at all of them dry firing was acceptable in the safe zone so long as mags were out, all the above were pretty s**t hot on mags being out before entering the safe zone with Dragons Lair and Red1 being top of the list, at Red1 there is a staff member watching everyone walking in shouting "Mags Out" and "fire off a few shots outside" to anyone walking into the safe zone. I will admit that i have dry fired a few times in the safe zone, but always point my gun into the foam of my hard case and fire 1 or 2 shots, after hearing this i will abandon this practice. I have had a close shave once, myself and a few friends went to Dragons Lair Airsoft a while back and one of my friends (who no longer plays) fired 1 stray BB in the safe zone, needless to say i nearly knocked him out myself. Hope the lads eyesight is fine but hearing that it was a shot from a 450 springer at close range he'll be lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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