Noobs and Milsims

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Can't help noticing that there are many new players on here, which is always healthy.

 

Got me thinking about some of the prejudices and preconceptions that new players have about milsim games when they have just experienced skirmishing.

 

I must start by saying that I have met some dyed-in-the-wool milsimmers who have very "pure" views about milsims. In fact, we have experienced prejudice from established milsim players who say that you have to be wearing specific real world kit and only 2 or 3 day continuous games are worth doing.

 

Everybody is entitled to their view and there are milsin organisers that cater for this need.

 

Our games were deliberately designed for players who didn't subscribe to this.

 

On our first game, we had people who had never played airsoft before and rented from us.

 

They followed the loadout rules, played as rebels and had a fine old time. They brought their imaginations and really that was all that was really needed.

In subsequent games, we find a lot of players have never done any milsim before. Last game, we had more milsim virgins and they are coming back for the next game.

 

A lot of skirmishers get the idea that milsim is deadly serious and you have to salute and call people sir and wear about 2k worth of real steel gucchi gear.

 

T'aint so !!

[Aengus]

At my age their is absolutely 0 Milsim places that would let me play 😔

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Really why is that ?

 

Too young or too old ?

[Aengus]

Too young

[Okto Eight Milsim]

We have a 16 years old limit unless players come with a guardian/parent but Gunman, our sister organisation have a 13-year old limit I think for their games.

[Aengus]

Where are most of your games based ?

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Near the M25 motorway in London.

One is right next to J20 and the other is about 20 minutes from J12.

[Aengus]

Bit too far from central Scotland ! But might come down some time in the future for a Milsim depending how long it is

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Our games are weekend games. Bear in mind that we dont allow two tone weapons and we still have a minimum age of 13 when playing with a parent.

 

In saying that, we have people flying in from Denmark and Germany for our next game.

 

We are exporting airsoft product to help the UK with their balance of payments ! not many people doing that!

[Dannn]

Can't help noticing that there are many new players on here, which is always healthy.

 

Got me thinking about some of the prejudices and preconceptions that new players have about milsim games when they have just experienced skirmishing.

 

I must start by saying that I have met some dyed-in-the-wool milsimmers who have very "pure" views about milsims. In fact, we have experienced prejudice from established milsim players who say that you have to be wearing specific real world kit and only 2 or 3 day continuous games are worth doing.

 

Everybody is entitled to their view and there are milsin organisers that cater for this need.

 

Our games were deliberately designed for players who didn't subscribe to this.

 

On our first game, we had people who had never played airsoft before and rented from us.

 

They followed the loadout rules, played as rebels and had a fine old time. They brought their imaginations and really that was all that was really needed.

In subsequent games, we find a lot of players have never done any milsim before. Last game, we had more milsim virgins and they are coming back for the next game.

 

A lot of skirmishers get the idea that milsim is deadly serious and you have to salute and call people sir and wear about 2k worth of real steel gucchi gear.

 

T'aint so !!

Imop mill sim is a load of bullshit, simulating what, wearing what?

What about them simulating me wearing nothing but Ronhill shorts and Oakleys, busting moves on the L110A2?

Bet if I rocked in in that gear they wouldn't let me play!

(Kids, that's not advised, the empty a burn your flip flop clad feet 😂

[Raggedy_man]

Aye some of kit I used in Afghanistan would make some dyed in the wool Milsim types choke on their webtex cam cream it was so unregulation. I'm looking forward to trying it out mind you once I have a bit more kit and experience in game.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Oh I dont know, we probably would

 

Mil-sim is not the best of titles is it. Film-sim is even worse = Film Simulation - what does that mean ?

 

I don't think anybody is pretending to simulate anything.

 

They are just airsoft games where teams agree to wear specific loadouts i.e. DPM/Flecktarn etc or MTP etc so that teams are identifiable without having to wear armbands. Instead of lots of little skirmishes with breaks, its usually one backround story with lots of individial and interwoven missions without breaks and where there are lots of props coming into play and actors playing neutrals.

 

The various forces also tend to plan and work together rather than people just running around and doing their own thing.

[Raggedy_man]

Ah actual matching uniforms for each team.... that I agree with, Some folk put their armband in very unsporting places!

[Colonel Kurtz]

I had those kind of preconceptions about the criteria for Milsim, all fed by these being the supposed criteria for awesomeness the 'dyed in the wool' players at my local woodland sites have. They talk/boast about Milsim as if attending one was an achievement or select calling. Because they're the type that talk loudest and most often about milsim, it's their ideas of it that noobs like myself inherit.

 

Then i looked into it online and it all seemed a lot less strict/immersive than this preconception. So I went to one and found the actual rules weren't any where near as strict, was just like any other skirmish but with more complicated game criteria, much longer game time and the site was larger. Games were really well thought out in stages, staff were friendly and great. It was just kind of like an extended super-skirmish.

 

But still, all the people in my assigned squad (and majority there judging by their reactions) seemed to think that total immersion (the 2k of gucci gear and saluting etc as you put it lol) was an ethos that was simply an unwritten rule. Like it was the whole point of attending a Milsim and if you didn't subscribe to it then wtf are you doing here and not at a normal skirmish? No-one seemed interested in having fun or a laugh, just a stern faced mission.

 

There was no 'rebel' team for the one i went to, just nato and pseudo-soviet. It sounds like a good way to cater to those noobs like me who like me only have a camo t-shirt, refuse to walk around in set-formation and don't know the latest nick-names of any of the pointless attacking/defending 'manouvers' that make no difference when performed by unfit/slow people who waste the advantage arguing about which one to use.

 

I commend you for trying to make milsim more accessible, i'll certainly give your site a go and milsim another chance now i'm just about over the jaded urge to put such fools into an actual war-zone and see how many seconds it takes for their underpants to turn into the "correct camo scheme", well perhaps not totally over, i'm definitely grinning rather than grinding my teeth while ranting tho

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Thats a valid point.

 

I don't think we can ever be accused of being Gucci. One of the benefits of staging a game in a run down ex-soviet state - there's a fair degree of freestyle in loadout and weapons !!!

 

We know a few special forces guys, past and present and their "loadouts" are pretty unorthodox. Not what you see on the SF airsoft groups.

 

Aye some of kit I used in Afghanistan would make some dyed in the wool Milsim types choke on their webtex cam cream it was so unregulation. I'm looking forward to trying it out mind you once I have a bit more kit and experience in game.

[Raggedy_man]

Nice to hear its not all doom and gloom. As long as we can have a laugh about it I think we are onto a winner.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

There are some milsim games like that out there.

 

I think the key is that "milsim" is not a fixed prescription. Its just a tag and it covers a lot of different game styles.

Another thing is that there is a belief that for it to be good, it has to be held in an MOD training ground, which is not the case.

 

I would say that our rebels probably have the best time of all the game. They dress and act like rebels.

Saturday evening gets a bit raucous and next game, one of them is having a tongue-in-cheek pistol duel with one of the PMC guys because they had a (good-natured) online disagreement. It was suggested that rather than keep trading insults and jibes on Facebook, they should just take a pistol each, load it with one round, stand back to back, walk 15 paces, turn and fire.

 

Gives the guys some entertainment round the campfire !!!

 

I had those kind of preconceptions about the criteria for Milsim, all fed by these being the supposed criteria for awesomeness the 'dyed in the wool' players at my local woodland sites have. They talk/boast about Milsim as if attending one was an achievement or select calling. Because they're the type that talk loudest and most often about milsim, it's their ideas of it that noobs like myself inherit.

 

Then i looked into it online and it all seemed a lot less strict/immersive than this preconception. So I went to one and found the actual rules weren't any where near as strict, was just like any other skirmish but with more complicated game criteria, much longer game time and the site was larger. Games were really well thought out in stages, staff were friendly and great. It was just kind of like an extended super-skirmish.

 

But still, all the people in my assigned squad (and majority there judging by their reactions) seemed to think that total immersion (the 2k of gucci gear and saluting etc as you put it lol) was an ethos that was simply an unwritten rule. Like it was the whole point of attending a Milsim and if you didn't subscribe to it then wtf are you doing here and not at a normal skirmish? No-one seemed interested in having fun or a laugh, just a stern faced mission.

 

There was no 'rebel' team for the one i went to, just nato and pseudo-soviet. It sounds like a good way to cater to those noobs like me who like me only have a camo t-shirt, refuse to walk around in set-formation and don't know the latest nick-names of any of the pointless attacking/defending 'manouvers' that make no difference when performed by unfit/slow people who waste the advantage arguing about which one to use.

 

I commend you for trying to make milsim more accessible, i'll certainly give your site a go and milsim another chance now i'm just about over the jaded urge to put such fools into an actual war-zone and see how many seconds it takes for their underpants to turn into the "correct camo scheme", well perhaps not totally over, i'm definitely grinning rather than grinding my teeth while ranting tho

[Esoterick]

People should give it a go before deciding they don't like it. If I took what I heard a couple of people say as gospel I'd still assume using LiPos would run the risk of incinerating my whole town in a firestorm if I look at them funny.

 

Much like any type of Airsoft game i've seen some strange rules though(looking at you 370 FPS, 30 MED DMR or 1 box mag on LMG regardless of capacity). Although that's more the organisers not thinking about things than limited to skirmishes or milsim or any other description of game.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

On the basis that a picture speaks a thousand words and all that, I've put some photos up in the M25 thread.

 

Big grins all round.

 

The rebel leader enjoyed being searched by the special forces guys a little too much for my liking though !!!

[BBrotherwood]

Role playing with airsoft guns is the best description for the Okto Games. Its a lot of fun because of it as well. Most of the MDF (Government) team was just in DPMs or Flaktarn with a simple rifle and chest rig or plate carrier. The biggest irony was that the rebels seemed to have the more gucci kit then us...

[Okto Eight Milsim]

We use the basic Gunman rules as we use the same insurance. However, a lot of our rules have come from the players. Based on feedback after games, we have actively modified some rules (those that don't affect insurance or safety) to satsfy the players. At the end of the day, its their game.

 

People should give it a go before deciding they don't like it. If I took what I heard a couple of people say as gospel I'd still assume using LiPos would run the risk of incinerating my whole town in a firestorm if I look at them funny.

 

Much like any type of Airsoft game i've seen some strange rules though(looking at you 370 FPS, 30 MED DMR or 1 box mag on LMG regardless of capacity). Although that's more the organisers not thinking about things than limited to skirmishes or milsim or any other description of game.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Yeah but the rebels were being funded by the Americans at one point. Where did all those AKs come from in the handshaking photo on the M25 thread ??

 

Role playing with airsoft guns is the best description for the Okto Games. Its a lot of fun because of it as well. Most of the MDF (Government) team was just in DPMs or Flaktarn with a simple rifle and chest rig or plate carrier. The biggest irony was that the rebels seemed to have the more gucci kit then us...

[Raggedy_man]

Can we have a ling for the M25 thread please?

[Okto Eight Milsim]

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/27447-the-m25-airsoft-group/

[Dannn]

If I were to join in and capture enemy could I water board them, just to keep the realism going 😀