Firearm ban

[TheGrover]

I think that the officers giving the advice are just staying on the side of caution. Airsoft replica guns have specific exemption from certain aspects of firearm law and are legally defined as imitation firearms.

[Sacarathe]

While I am inclined to agree - a history of gun crime and a firearms ban makes establishing illicit intent significantly easier and would prejudice a jury severely. That and breaking of skin is an establishable ABH offence - airsoft players do not sign waivers that they won't sue each other civilly or criminally nor call the police, only the site and it's management.

[skarra333]

I think that the officers giving the advice are just staying on the side of caution. Airsoft replica guns have specific exemption from certain aspects of firearm law and are legally defined as imitation firearms.

 

Although one element of law may define airsoft weapons in a certain way as not firearms, that does not mean that firearms legislation doesn't apply, in fact sometimes just the opposite. Just as an example, the offence of "Possession of firearm with intent to cause fear of violence" says: It is an offence for a person to have in his possession any firearm or imitation firearm with intent... blah blah blah.

 

I think the main thing here is that as far as I know, none of us are lawyers, and the chap's been advised not to go near airsoft, and however odd that is (given as mentioned, he can still use a crossbow) he should follow the guidance.

[Sitting Duck]

bummer

 

laughable thing is though - if he was a hardened criminal no matter what

and he wanted to get hold of a firearm - would he really give a flying f*ck ???

(and could probably obtain a firearm quicker than ukara or any of us buying a RIF)

 

all this does is stop somebody legally obtaining a firearm or airsoft or friggin Nerf gun I'm amazed that was on the list

sorry to hear after making all these enquiries that it is still a no no

(not the hair remover)

 

is a crossbow a firearm, or is he ok to buy a set of carving knives ?

soz but think they are being ultra cautious and a safe "no chance m8"

hope the ban soon lifts and he can keep his nose clean and put all this behind him

 

best wishes

[TheGrover]

 

Although one element of law may define airsoft weapons in a certain way as not firearms, that does not mean that firearms legislation doesn't apply, in fact sometimes just the opposite. Just as an example, the offence of "Possession of firearm with intent to cause fear of violence" says: It is an offence for a person to have in his possession any firearm or imitation firearm with intent... blah blah blah.

 

I think the main thing here is that as far as I know, none of us are lawyers, and the chap's been advised not to go near airsoft, and however odd that is (given as mentioned, he can still use a crossbow) he should follow the guidance.

I just read the specific section, and it clearly applies only to firearms and there is exactly zero mention of imitation firearms.

 

Even more prudent, the only people who can decide this for certain are twelve peers and a man in a curly hair wig, which means a trip to the courts, and as yet. I don't think there has ever been a criminal case involving an airsoft player

[GiantKiwi]

Well, as apart from the OP's posts, most of this appears to be speculation, I know someone personally who received a fixed term firearms ban, and he was categorically told that he wasn't able to have anything to do with airsoft during that fixed term, unless he really wanted a stay at HM's pleasure.

 

So OP, no, your family member won't be able to take part in airsoft at all.

[skarra333]

I just read the specific section, and it clearly applies only to firearms and there is exactly zero mention of imitation firearms.

 

Even more prudent, the only people who can decide this for certain are twelve peers and a man in a curly hair wig, which means a trip to the courts, and as yet. I don't think there has ever been a criminal case involving an airsoft player

Are we looking at different things?>> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_16a_firearms_act/

[Sacarathe]

Are we looking at different things?>> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_16a_firearms_act/

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents (?)

[TheGrover]

Are we looking at different things?>> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_16a_firearms_act/

Edit: I can't English

 

Yes we are. The section you quote is in regards to carrying an (imitation) firearm with intent.

 

Buying an airsoft gun to skirmish with and not to be a tool is a different section, there is another section specifically dealing with people who have been released from custody

[skarra333]

Fair dos.

[two_zero]

You don't get over 5 years in prison for stealing a mars bar. There's a reason for the firearms ban.

 

I fail to see any scenario or perspective (other than that of a criminal) where letting a convicted criminal own or handle a realistic imitation firearm (or anything that even remotely resembles a weapon of any type) would be a good thing.

[ImTriggerHappy]

You don't get over 5 years in prison for stealing a mars bar. There's a reason for the firearms ban.

 

I fail to see any scenario or perspective (other than that of a criminal) where letting a convicted criminal own or handle a realistic imitation firearm (or anything that even remotely resembles a weapon of any type) would be a good thing.

Thats a pretty narrow view of things. Just because someone has committed a crime doesn't mean that they will again or that they are necessarily a bad person. There are lots of ex cons doing well for themselves and doing good by others. If they have done the time then they have paid for it and deserve the chance to move on. Unless they are a rapist or paedo then they should be tortured to death very slowly.

[Sitting Duck]

again - I say any hardened crimminal if they really wanted....

 

bet they could obtain a real firearm quicker than most of us could get a RIF

Big Ron so to speak would give a toss about a firearms ban if he was planning on something

 

Just a quick word in "Nobby the Nutter" 's ear, meet us in 2hrs at back of The Wellington pub etc.....

 

 

I knew a bloke who did 18yrs inside

he was a screw and a right w@nker btw

but all the same - he did his time inside

[skarra333]

You don't get over 5 years in prison for stealing a mars bar. There's a reason for the firearms ban.

 

I fail to see any scenario or perspective (other than that of a criminal) where letting a convicted criminal own or handle a realistic imitation firearm (or anything that even remotely resembles a weapon of any type) would be a good thing.

You might if it's the legoland giant mars bar. The Lego cooperation are ruthless in their pursuit of "justice".

[two_zero]

Thats a pretty narrow view of things. Just because someone has committed a crime doesn't mean that they will again or that they are necessarily a bad person. There are lots of ex cons doing well for themselves and doing good by others. If they have done the time then they have paid for it and deserve the chance to move on. Unless they are a rapist or paedo then they should be tortured to death very slowly.

And good on them! Get a hobby, find a job, just not one that involves replica firearms!!

 

 

As for it being narrow minded: no, again, there's a reason why people convicted for certain crimes can not own firearms - just as people convicted for certain crimes can not work in close approximation to children. As for your last sentence, those are the only two crimes you deem unforgivable? Anyway, we are getting hugely sidetracked.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

And good on them! Get a hobby, find a job, just not one that involves replica firearms!!

 

 

As for it being narrow minded: no, again, there's a reason why people convicted for certain crimes can not own firearms - just as people convicted for certain crimes can not work in close approximation to children. As for your last sentence, those are the only two crimes you deem unforgivable? Anyway, we are getting hugely sidetracked.

 

Who said anything about letting a ex con own a firearm. We are talking about airsoft guns which isnt a real firearm. Your statement said that there isnt a scenario where a convicted criminal should be allowed to own or handle a rif. Even if they have committed an offence such as armed robbery doesnt mean that they should be banned from playing airsoft, its a game and a sport.

Someone who has been convicted of assault doesn't get banned from going to a boxing gym or even boxing in competitions.

 

I am not an ex con before you assume that I have just lived enough life to know that you cant assume someone is totally irresponsible or unable to act properly because they made a mistake.

A bit of common sense is all that is needed in the laws.

[Sacarathe]

This thread is done, we don't know the crime committed and that's the end of that.

[two_zero]

Who said anything about letting a ex con own a firearm. We are talking about airsoft guns which isnt a real firearm. Your statement said that there isnt a scenario where a convicted criminal should be allowed to own or handle a rif. Even if they have committed an offence such as armed robbery doesnt mean that they should be banned from playing airsoft, its a game and a sport.

Someone who has been convicted of assault doesn't get banned from going to a boxing gym or even boxing in competitions.

 

I am not an ex con before you assume that I have just lived enough life to know that you cant assume someone is totally irresponsible or unable to act properly because they made a mistake.

A bit of common sense is all that is needed in the laws.

Oh you do, do you?

 

 

 

If I had it my way, criminals evicted of assault would not be allowed to learn how to more effectively hurt people. I have just lived enough life to know that a lot of criminals does just this, reoffend, get caught, let out again and so it goes.

 

It is a game and a sport, but it does utilise items that can and are being used in criminal activity, hence who can participate should be limited.

 

As for common sense in laws.. I really do not see what you are hinting at, but common sense does sadly not apply in English laws, nor is it possible with the way the legal system works in England.

 

 

 

I do not think this discussion can further progress I can not see your point of view and you can clearly not see mine. I suggest we leave it at that.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Oh you do, do you.

 

Whats that meant to mean? It comes across as some sort of smug arrogant comment.

[Shizbazki]

Ok so this thread was never answered specifically and probably never will be, i'll explain why now having done some info dredging for another thread on this here forum.

 

It looks like if the OPs friend picks up a firearm with his ban then he will be contravening Section 21 of the Firearms Act 1968: Possession of firearms by persons previously convicted of crime.

 

This states that anyone sentenced to any form of custodial sentence of three years or more has an automatic firearms ban for life, if he has served 3 months or more but less than 3 years then he is banned from any firearm for 5 years from the date he is released.

 

It can done Trial by Either Way (TEW) so if summary only, max sentence 6 months, if indictable then max is 5 years

 

See below CPS guidance

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_21_firearms_act/

 

HOWEVER there is a bullet point here which says: VCRA provisions re minimum terms in certain circumstances DO NOT apply to this offence but leaves it at that.

 

THEN the Sentencing Guidelines finally makes mention of imitation firearms!

 

So in conclusion, contrary to my first post here your friend is indeed banned from the world of Airsoft as it appears that Section 21 of the Firearm Act 1968 which regards the banning of persons ever owning or using a firearm due to previous conviction also includes imitation firearms as a firearm.

 

I mentioned why it won't be specifically answered though, because UK Law works on tested cases and as to date (via google search), no one has been convicted of having a firearms ban and playing a lawful game of Airsoft.

 

So the advice from all firearms licencing officers were correct and if he wished to err on the side of caution he will never touch anything (assuming he has had a more than 3 year sentence) resembling a firearm.

 

However the real world are shades of grey, not black and white law books.

 

If he did go to a legit Airsoft site, borrowed a gun from the site or friend, enjoyed, behaved himself then went home quietly then who's to know chances are you will find that some players at most Airsoft Sites are police officers themselves (may or may not be firearms officer but just enjoy the sport). As far as they would be aware he is a legit Airsoft Player and they are unlikely to know his personal background unless he starts shouting it out loud or does something really silly.

 

End of the day he is an adult who can make his own decisions, its only if he is caught (doing something silly whilst playing airsoft).

[James92]

I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort. So basically anything that looks like a gun weather real or not you can’t have, it’s a joke, if I held a water gun it’s classed as an imitation it’s stupid 

[Tommikka]

28 minutes ago, James92 said:

I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort. So basically anything that looks like a gun weather real or not you can’t have, it’s a joke, if I held a water gun it’s classed as an imitation it’s stupid 

The obvious response is that you shouldn’t have committed the crime in the first place

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, James92 said:

I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort.

 

Out of interest, do you know the legal basis for that?  Firearms Act 1968 S21 prohibits possession of firearms, not imitations.  On a quick scan of BAILII (this is not legal advice!), I can't see case law where imitations have fallen foul of that.

 

To be crystal clear, I am not advocating or encouraging you to try your luck.  This is an academic question.

[Immortal]

I worked with a fella who was convicted of a firearms offence many years before I knew him.

 

He couldn't enter my home due to the nature of my hobbies being RIFs and airguns.

 

He couldn't touch, be in proximity to them nor people with them nor houses that home them... just a big NO to every aspect of anything gun-like.

 

Marked for life, no getting round it. Get caught and it's "bye-bye"... it's unfortunate but you reap what you sow.

 

A ban for life is exactly that.

[Rogerborg]

Again, do you know the statutory basis for that, and the details?