Getting an rif under 18

[Fugi94]

I understand that anyone under 18 can not buy or sell an rif but can legally own one . Eg dad proving defence then gifting the gun but I was wondering if there was anyway of the child getting a junior skirmish membership as a defence then a parent buying the gun? Is this a thing?

 

Also this may sound dodgy but is it technically legal. Scenario: I am buying a rif of a second hand owner u18 this is not possible but could the person selling the gun gift the gun no money involved and then buy a pencil or bb ammo or something for the actual price of the gun because if anyone stops you you are in full right to say this is legal as I was gifted this gun as you paid no money for the actual gun

[Monty]

child getting a junior skirmish membership as a defence then a parent buying the gun? Is this a thing?

 

I remember vaguely a member on here was told by someone on a skirmish day that they "had a Junior ukara" which we all knew was complete bollocks.

[Richard65]

Your Dad could get a valid defence, buy the RIF and `Gift' it to you. If he said "cut the lawn over the summer and I'll give you the gun" then that is not a true gift.

 

Being `gifted' a gun and then paying the exact/close value for a virtually worthless item would not be considered two valid and separate transactions. It would be the same if someone `gifted' a gun to you that he was selling for say £300 and you then gave him something of equal value.

 

As for junior memberships where the parent is allowed to purchase RIF's based on the son's skirmish history then yes - there are schemes around and the clubs that offer these are comfortable that it complies with the legislation.

 

You may also find that your club can store a RIF between games and allow you buy the RIF on condition that it does not leave the club area.

[Fugi94]

Your Dad could get a valid defence, buy the RIF and `Gift' it to you. If he said "cut the lawn over the summer and I'll give you the gun" then that is not a true gift.

 

Being `gifted' a gun and then paying the exact/close value for a virtually worthless item would not be considered two valid and separate transactions. It would be the same if someone `gifted' a gun to you that he was selling for say £300 and you then gave him something of equal value.

 

As for junior memberships where the parent is allowed to purchase RIF's based on the son's skirmish history then yes - there are schemes around and the clubs that offer these are comfortable that it complies with the legislation.

 

You may also find that your club can store a RIF between games and allow you buy the RIF on condition that it does not leave the club area.

So you are saying the later idea would not work but their are ways to get junior memberships can you please tell me a way of getting on of these or which clubs I would have to go to

 

Also how about being gifted a two tone gun and proving the under 18 person skirmishes would I then be able to remove the paint as this is not buying or selling the gun thanks for your help

[Russe11]

So you are saying the later idea would not work but their are ways to get junior memberships can you please tell me a way of getting on of these or which clubs I would have to go to

 

Also how about being gifted a two tone gun and proving the under 18 person skirmishes would I then be able to remove the paint as this is not buying or selling the gun thanks for your help

You can be gifted a 2 tone gun.

Removing the paint is a grey area. It is manufacturing a RIF which requires a defence of being able to prove it is for the purposes of skirmishing but no age limit is mentioned in this regard. Technically then, you could do it.

[Trojan]

If you want to purchase a RIF u18 without a defence then just ask your dad to purchase it. owner ship is not illegal. if the seller does not ask for UKARA then you are good.

[Fugi94]

If you want to purchase a RIF u18 without a defence then just ask your dad to purchase it. owner ship is not illegal. if the seller does not ask for UKARA then you are good.

But if I get questioned I am doing anything illegal also does that mean I will only be able to buy second hand and is the seller committing a crime

[Trojan]

The seller is commiting an offence. Its his risk.

 

What are you so worried for lol just buy a gun from a friend at a site or ask a friend to purchase one for you. You don't really seem capable of purchasing a RIF though, yes it is good to ask questions, but it is better to research them first. There are a billion trillion threads from kids asking the same thing and you could read up on law while your out there googling what you want.

 

Owning an RIF is not illegal. Purchasing one is not illegal. Selling one IS illegal.

 

The VCRA was intended to stop sellers from selling to under age kids to ensure that the sport remains a sport and is regulated by airsoft sites.

[Airsoft_Mr B]

My dad has the defence and has 'gifted' me all the guns we have. That's completely fine.

There's technically nothing wrong with actually owning one but you need a defence to purchase it.

[Fugi94]

Ok thanks but my parents carn't buy one online without defence are you suggesting meeting someone at a skirmish site and asking them to buy one then gift it to me and give them cash for like a pencil

Also is it common to get pulled over or questioned about a rif

[Monty]

Ok thanks but my parents carn't buy one online without defence

 

...Then get it two-toned?

[BrightCandle]

Sure its nice to have a RIF but honestly but all the under 18's that play on my site do so with two tone guns or rentals. You can't buy them yourself so your still in the gift territory anyway and without having a parent commit to playing themselves for a period just to get you the RIF its not worth it, and I think its arguably against the intent of the law (which is to avoid minors having RIFs and IFs of their own).

[Serconker]

My dad has the defence and has 'gifted' me all the guns we have. That's completely fine.

There's technically nothing wrong with actually owning one but you need a defence to purchase it.

Correct, as far as I've seen there is NO laws on owning a IF or RIF, granted you got them via 'legal' means, giftings' and such.

The law covers people selling the [R]IF, as is the norm with this type of law, it's down to the fact enforcing a 'Ownership' law on such things costs too much, whereas if they catch a seller, selling to people that do not meet the requirements then they just take the persons whole stock and charge them, which costs a bit less and also helps achieve the goal of the VCRA.

 

Though if you get pulled over by a cop and you have a RIF and you're not heading to a game, good luck.

For the love of god, don't quote me on legal advice.

[Fugi94]

Though if you get pulled over by a cop and you have a RIF and you're not heading to a game, good luck.

For the love of god, don't quote me on legal advice.

But if I am driving to a skirmish I am ok

[Serconker]

But if I am driving to a skirmish I am ok

Explain to the officer you are, and provide proof and you should be.

Just don't say you brought it.

[Trojan]

Why do you even think an officer will just randomly pull a perfectly legal driver over and ask to inspect your bag to hope he would find an RIF.

 

Jesus Christ man, the police have better things to do! They're public servants that don't get enough praise.

 

If you are really scared, do these things; get a gun bag, drive safely, build a positive relationship with an employee/ owner of the skirmish site. You're covered from all ends there then.

 

 

My advice? Wait a few years. Buy a cheap second hand, enjoy it, learn how to use guns properly, learn how to maintain and service rifles, upgrade it ( if you want ) and learn to become your own technician. THEN buy a gun worth lots of £££. By then you will be able to afford it, you will be old enough, and most importantly you will have the knowledge required to successfully maintain and understand the correct use of an AEG.

[TacMaster]

^this, or buy a cheap CYMA AEG and open it up and have a look around. I used to think gearboxes were horribly complex and I was afraid of opening my old MP5's one, but as soon as I did it was a lot more simple than I thought.

I even managed to give it a good clean out, corrected the angle of engagement of the gears and re-greased it properly

[Airsoft-Ed]

Basically, buy a two tone and then "use the gun so much the paint rubbed off" read as: Rub the paint off. Or paint over it. Personally I'd rub it off because adding more paint just looks shit.

Then see if you can count on one hand the number of people who give a fuck. I bet you can't.

You're only going to be arrested for anything gun related, if you wave it about in public or try and rob someone/a shop/an institution with it. And in that instance, that's what you're going to be arrested and banged up for. Not painting it black when it should be blue.

The law doesn't give shit number 1 about two tone laws, and neither does anyone else. There are too many stupid loop holes for you to jump through to avoid the charges, that the charges simply do not exist. No one in the history of ever, have been arrested and locked up for painting an airsoft gun, selling one to someone under the age of 18, or any of the other stuff that's been mentioned in this thread.

The Association of Chief Police Officers have actually issued a statement which says the section of the VCRA with relation to RIFs, is unenforcible. Meaning they can't do anything to you, even if you're caught. Which is basically down to the fact that you will NEVER be caught, unless you walk down the street pointing it at someone, at which point, as I mentioned above, it'll be the fact that you did that, that you'll be getting nicked for.

Get your dad to buy you a two tone, then do what you want with it.

Possession isn't illegal. Painting one is, but who's going to know? Who's going to care if they do know? Who's going to "tell on you"? If anyone does, nothing will happen because there's nothing wrong with owning a RIF.

The whole two tone debate is so pointless that I can't believe I even bothered writing all this down, it isn't worth the time or effort to talk about.

[Mike636]

Tis not true Ed , someone has been charged with manufacturing a RIF, soneone made a post about it a few months ago. He wasn't initially arrested for that reason, I think he was arrested for possession of an offensive weapon in a public place ( he had a load of knives with him in a bag because he was moving house but decided it would be a good idea to get them out in a school and show a member of staff )

 

But he was subsequently charged with manufacturing as he had a good and lawful reason for having the knives with him ( moving house ) he must of admitted it during interviewing .

[Mike636]

But the the OP just don't be a dick and you'll be fine

[Airsoft-Ed]

Tis not true Ed , someone has been charged with manufacturing a RIF, soneone made a post about it a few months ago. He wasn't initially arrested for that reason, I think he was arrested for possession of an offensive weapon in a public place ( he had a load of knives with him in a bag because he was moving house but decided it would be a good idea to get them out in a school and show a member of staff )

 

But he was subsequently charged with manufacturing as he had a good and lawful reason for having the knives with him ( moving house ) he must of admitted it during interviewing .

Let me re-phrase my point in that case;

 

No one has ever had a policeman walk into their house without there being a reason for it, see a gun, say, "SHOULD THAT BE BLUE?" for you to then stupidly say, "Erm, yeah" and which point he'll go, "YOU'RE NICKED SANSHOINE!"

 

Doesn't happen.

[Fugi94]

Ok thanks guys this is what I'll do either buy an rif second hand or fairy spray two tone off

[Richard65]

Ok thanks but my parents carn't buy one online without defence are you suggesting meeting someone at a skirmish site and asking them to buy one then gift it to me and give them cash for like a pencil

Also is it common to get pulled over or questioned about a rif

Do you actually read the answers to your questions? The person has to `gift' the gun to you. That means they get nothing in return. Taking your cash for a worthless item would not work if they were to be caught.

 

No one is allowed to sell you a two-tone or RIF but they could sell your parents a two-tone. If you look on the sales section of the forum you will see that sellers want proof of your defence (normally UKARA number) before they will sell as it is their responsibility.

[GingerBreadMan]

If your dad buys you a gun second hand he could use the fact that he is buying it for the purpose to give to you and you will use it for skirmishing. This is technically a defence you could give to the seller.

[Airsoft-Ed]

Or you could just read what I said...