Well Pro XM5/M7 GBBR

[hitmanNo2]

Looks like Well Pro are joining Toxicant and APFG and doing a GBBR XM5/M7.  It will probably use VFCs 7.62 platform as a base considering Well Pro's existing relationship with VFC's parts so no doubt better than Toxicant's somewhat pants effort. 

 

 

[GiantKiwi]

An option that isn't obscenely expensive, greatly welcomed.

[rj1986]

Well Pro just casually whipping this out and flopping on the table. 

Mags look a bit cheap plastic, but looking forward to this with high hopes. 

[Anonymoose]

16 minutes ago, rj1986 said:

Mags look a bit cheap plastic, but looking forward to this with high hopes. 

 

They look 3D printed, maybe as a test run. If it's VFC-based maybe it uses SR-25/SCAR-H mag gubbins with a different outer case.

[mightyjebus]

Hopefully Well Pro do their normal and do a GBB and AEG version. Be nice to have a AEG version for us normal folks

[EvilMonkee]

I seriously don't get the seeming obsession with this platform, its fugly.

[BigAl]

I agree about it being ugly but the attraction is obvious US Army.  Whatever they  adopt Airsofters want.

[EvilMonkee]

They havent fully adopted it yet.  Not sure if they will

[Rogerborg]

9 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

They havent fully adopted it yet.  Not sure if they will

 

It may turn out to be a great gun to win the last war, or three or five wars ago.

 

But combatants in Ukraine today are crying out for shotguns, or anything shotgun-like, right down to hand-made ersatz shot rounds for 5.45mm rifled barrels. One USMC Colonel is pushing for urgent shotgun training against UAVs.

 

We're currently procuring an L85 replacement, and the thinking seems to be like-for-like. I wonder if we should be having a radical re-evaluation of that, given the targets and threats that exist now, let alone in the next conflict.

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said:

They havent fully adopted it yet.  Not sure if they will

I guess we've been watching the same YouTube channels.

 

The thing is any new weapon or bit of kit is going to have unexpected problems, the question is how quickly they get fixed.

 

Oh and yes I agree it's been beaten with the ugly stick more than once 

[DerDer]

Will we see an airsoft M250 in due course? 

[hitmanNo2]

2 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

They havent fully adopted it yet.  Not sure if they will

I get the reasoning why it was tendered for the specific specs it has but I'm sure you could get most of the way there at a fraction of the cost by simply bumping up the numbers of DMRs with 7.62mm or 6.8mm or whatever for reaching out for the longer threats and leaving your regular infantry with 5.56 with a sensible amount of rounds available.  The fact that in wargames, guys are running out of ammo mid firefights and are needing resupply is somewhat concerning. 

 

The future doesn't look great for it imo. 

[mightyjebus]

The last 2 US service rifles didn't do too well out the block. The M14 being so bad it got binned quite quickly whereas the M16 went on to one of the best weapon platforms out there. The M7 will mostly likely be adapted however unlike the previous 2 it's not just a replacement weapon. You have integrated optics, 3 bullet variations with the high powered version able to penetrate level 3a/4 at 800 yards and it's suppressed to reduce the noise signature making it harder to pin point your fire position.

 

The next war being planned is most likely China who's troops will be armed with body armour. The previous conflicts using 556 proved that 556 just annoys the bad guys when they are high on drugs, plus they fired from stand off positions making the 556 ineffective at range. The M7 with the high powered cartridge will overcome the body armour and lethality at ranges unseen on a modern general issue weapon. 

 

On the topic of drones this problem will likely be solved during the Ukraine war. At a guess using electronic counter measures and the drones greatest strength is also it's biggest weakness. The ability to see your target and drive straight into it has been a game changer over traditional artillery (and the Ukrainians use the drone because they have limited artillery shells) however if you stop a drone from seeing then it's just another artillery shell. Once someone figures out how to blind a drone the threat will be reduced. If you think that this doesn't apply to fibre drone then I'm talking about the camera on the drone itself not the drone feedback to the operator and with the drone blind AI would be useless as well apart from predictive targeting based on the last known image

 

Going back to the M7 and the 6.8mm round this will probably become the new NATO round simply because the US dictate which round is the NATO round. The fact that the British are looking to replace the SA80 with something in the 6.5 or 6.5 calibre suggests that moves are afoot to make the 6.8 the new NATO round. The 6.5 is probably a red herring (a bit like the EM1, good idea but shelved because the US wanted 7.62). I hope we don't try to make something ourselves as we have lost that skill and the skill fade is even bigger since we designed the SA80. It's probably best to go to someone who knows what they are doing (HK, SIG, LMT, etc) and just license build them in the UK.

[hitmanNo2]

11 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

The next war being planned is most likely China who's troops will be armed with body armour. The previous conflicts using 556 proved that 556 just annoys the bad guys when they are high on drugs, plus they fired from stand off positions making the 556 ineffective at range. The M7 with the high powered cartridge will overcome the body armour and lethality at ranges unseen on a modern general issue weapon. 

I honestly think the armour penetration abilities are kind of moot and are only an on paper/"look how how clever we are" thing.

 

Sure, it's impressive but how many battles will be won by being able to punch through the opponent' armour? I'd imagine not many.  Unless something big happens in war fighting, frag, arty and shrapnel are going to continue to be taking the majority of people out of the fight.

 

 

[mightyjebus]

Don't disagree however knowing the guys shooting at you have 200 meters on your effective range will affect morale, tactics and my even finish a battle before it starts. 

[hitmanNo2]

Yeah. Increased effective range is the aspect I can get behind. 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, mightyjebus said:

Once someone figures out how to blind a drone the threat will be reduced.

 

Frikkin lasers. They've been promised for decades, but have yet to appear as robust, man-portable units. Cold comfort to combatants in the field now.

 

Shotguns are a known quantity, can be churned out cheaply in big numbers, and work in trenches and buildings too. It's what both Ukrainian and Russian troops are crying out for, and I think we should be listening to them, rather than gambling on a wunderwaffe countermeasure becoming available, let alone the decade or so it would likely take us to get it into the field.

[TheFull9]

So, anyway, another replica of a rifle that's certainly dubious/debateable in real firearm form is coming out.

 

A lot of people online say the real M7 would work as a DMR but shouldn't become the standard infantry weapon, so I'll be interested to see how airsofters with M7 replicas setup said replicas. It's hella chonk compared to an AR-15 and not the easiest to run around with all day, comparatively. This is a trend with firearm designs from the past few years that I don't understand in that they're girthy as hell, especially when you compare them to the popular 762 NATO rifles of the Cold War.

 

If I had a crystal ball I'd love to pierce through the vale just 5 years or so in to the future, as the controversy over the M7 and P320/M17 might have been resolved one way or another by then. Players buying a lot of Sig US replicas now will either have possession of quite iconic and commonplace US issued weapons, or they'll have quite niche pieces that represent a specific blip in small arms development.

[mightyjebus]

20 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Frikkin lasers. They've been promised for decades, but have yet to appear as robust, man-portable units. Cold comfort to combatants in the field now.

 

Shotguns are a known quantity, can be churned out cheaply in big numbers, and work in trenches and buildings too. It's what both Ukrainian and Russian troops are crying out for, and I think we should be listening to them, rather than gambling on a wunderwaffe countermeasure becoming available, let alone the decade or so it would likely take us to get it into the field.

I don't think it will be lasers, too big, bulky and power hungry to be useful. Drones only need the shittest component on the board to fail for it to fall out the sky. A powerful enough signal could burnout a capacitor or resistor making the drone useless. The downside is anything else within range would suffer the same but I'd rather my radio popped than the AFV I'm in popping. It shouldn't take too long for a change in drone warfare due to the evolution in the drone world currently being 8 weeks. Every 8 weeks there is a branch on the evolution tree, good or bad and within 8 weeks another change.

[hitmanNo2]

I'm thinking the drone solution in the immediate future will be more drones. Absolutely loads of them saturating an area, be it tethered or auto land, charge, take off at designated charge stations. That way they'll always be x amount I'm the air. When they're destroyed, a new "order" is generated to replace to that area. They'll be connected like a MESH radio network to transmit silly long distance. All have thermal capabilities to identify enemy drones including fibre optic drones and designate them to be destroyed by hunter killer type drones that are auto launched. 

[Rogerborg]

Future airsoft games are going to be fought from the safe zone, aren't they?  

[Anonymoose]

11 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Future airsoft games are going to be fought from the safe zone, aren't they?  

 

No, we'll just argue online about whose gun is better.

 

 

Wait, hold on..

[Tackle]

31 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Future airsoft games are going to be fought from the safe zone, aren't they?  

Nah, I'm gonna sit in my bed with my vr headset on & just send an android avatar in my place🤖

[Anonymoose]

4 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Nah, I'm gonna sit in my bed with my vr headset on & just send an android avatar in my place🤖

 

Pretty sure VR headsets in bed are intended for something very different.

[rj1986]

2 hours ago, Anonymoose said:

 

No, we'll just argue online about whose gun is better.

 

 

Wait, hold on..

But that involves going outside