UK Ranger Regiment Showing off new stuff @ DSEI 2023

[Chev Chelios]

Do I really want another "M4"? Probably. Nice to see some of our lads getting a lighter weapon system with all the bells and whistles.

 

 

Source 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Chev Chelios
Adding dirty twitter link.

[Fatboy40]

A good video came out on this a few days ago...

 

https://youtu.be/lVakt4vEEqc?si=C0vK7tTk4hTi001F

[JimFromHorsham]

 

roll on the clone builders

[The_Lord_Poncho]

15 hours ago, Chev Chelios said:

 Nice to see some of our lads getting a lighter weapon system with all the bells and whistles.

 

 

Albeit if that example in the photo - laden as it is with all the 'bells and whistles' - is in any way lighter than the L85, I'll eat my hat! I've been known to sack the issued grip pod thingy into the locker and swap the susat for irons on certain occasions in a desperate yet somewhat futile attempt to try to reduce the weight of the L85.

[Lozart]

24 minutes ago, The_Lord_Poncho said:

 

Albeit if that example in the photo - laden as it is with all the 'bells and whistles' - is in any way lighter than the L85, I'll eat my hat! I've been known to sack the issued grip pod thingy into the locker and swap the susat for irons on certain occasions in a desperate yet somewhat futile attempt to try to reduce the weight of the L85.

 

The rifle on its own is about a kilo lighter. How the LPVO/RDS stacks up against a SUSAT someone else would have to check.

[Tommikka]

I could have been at DSEI this week, but have been doing other work things and not been able to dedicate a day out.

 

It would have been interesting, particularly that Future Soldier stand - Future Soldier covers many things, and in my current role the context is at very high level on the structuring of the Army, but a few years back I was involved in a few projects under the Future Soldier programme and I did get to go out on the Plain to get a hands on understanding of the equipment, needs and experience of those out on the ground (AKA play with the cool toys) with current equipment, future and potential future equipment.

 

A good one I once saw was two side by side displays - integrated future soldier with all the fancy equipment like the guy photographed above, under development and trials to military specifications but next to ‘eBay soldier’ equipped with off the shelf gadgets - highlighting that the vision of the high tech soldier of tomorrow was what ‘todays soldier’ was at that time encountering with the opposition in Afghanistan etc

 

As @The_Lord_Ponchopoints out all these come as added weight (plus other issues*)

Project Payne is frustrating for those involved. 
Every time the load is lightened, or redistributed the result tends to be that more gets carried and if in doubt the extra thing carried is ammunition 

 

Project Payne is named after a soldier at Normandy who had been photographed to illustrate the equipment carried by infantry in June 1944, and is used to illustrate customisable load carrying that is suitable for the task and minimising carrying just in case.

Another example highlighted in Payne was Long Tan where the Australians on patrol found themselves in action for hours but didn’t run out of ammunition, despite opting to go out with only the standard load

 

 

 

 

 

* For example quick release body armour /webbing - Make a vehicle more survivable over an IED/mine and then you get live soldiers trapped in an upside down or submerged vehicle, or body armour that protects you from being shot but slows you down making it more likely that you get shot

 

 

 

 

[Davet]

The holy trinity - firepower-mobility-protection. Improve one, compromise the others. Which is one of the reasons why, in Afghanistan, the casualty became the mission.

 

L85A3 “makes weight savings for the frontline soldier…of 100 grams”… What’s the effing point?!

 

Project Payne has been around for donkey’s years, everybody talks the talk but there just isn’t the close logistic support chain to actually make it work.

 

Modernisation and “Future Soldier” rumbles on - I was involved in FIST 😳 back in 2006-2008, blue force tracker, optics, lightweight batteries, etc, etc “lighten the load”! Most of it never materialised and, by and large, any weight savings are usually made up by carrying the extra ammo.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Davet

[Chev Chelios]

 

[gavinkempsell]

Looks cool, I'm surprised the chest rig has a mobile phone holder but I guess it's utilised with issued comms rather than an EE samsung.

[C-Diddy]

3 hours ago, gavinkempsell said:

Looks cool, I'm surprised the chest rig has a mobile phone holder but I guess it's utilised with issued comms rather than an EE samsung.

Don't bet on it. It wasn't unheard of for us to coordinate with other assets via WhatsApp when comms became, as they often do, fucked 😂

[The_Lord_Poncho]

9 hours ago, C-Diddy said:

Don't bet on it. It wasn't unheard of for us to coordinate with other assets via WhatsApp when comms became, as they often do, fucked 😂

We were actually issued waterproof samsungs, with secure comms apps for certain things, including urban. Never got a nice pouch for them though!

[Dan Robinson]

Ah the joys of British military procurement 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[C-Diddy]

1 hour ago, The_Lord_Poncho said:

We were actually issued waterproof samsungs, with secure comms apps for certain things, including urban. Never got a nice pouch for them though!

If you did, they'd be a pouch for something else. "Alright lads, just make it fit"

[The_Lord_Poncho]

22 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

If you did, they'd be a pouch for something else. "Alright lads, just make it fit"

Like the Sniper head nets that we were once issued for an exercise in the west of scotland - perversely not to use as a base for a ghillie head and shoulders - but rather to protect against the clouds of famously microscopic scottish midges.  Seemingly ignoring the fact that the nets in question having holes that were circa 1cm x 1cm sized.....

[gavinkempsell]

8 hours ago, The_Lord_Poncho said:

Seemingly ignoring the fact that the nets in question having holes that were circa 1cm x 1cm sized.....

To be fair... some of our midges wouldn't fit through that.

[The Waco Kid]

On 16/09/2023 at 11:08, Davet said:

The holy trinity - firepower-mobility-protection. Improve one, compromise the others. Which is one of the reasons why, in Afghanistan, the casualty became the mission.

 

I find it interesting that the compromise in mobility is mirrored between the infantryman and armour. The latter having become steadily heavier with extra add ons, do dada's and "stuff". The new Abrams (maybe the X) is looking to be lighter, they can save a few tons just on wiring. The M10 Booker "not a light tank" but it is really. Firepower is good but it needs to be able to get there!

 

Start renovating those CVRT's boys!

[John_W]

On 19/09/2023 at 23:47, C-Diddy said:

Don't bet on it. It wasn't unheard of for us to coordinate with other assets via WhatsApp when comms became, as they often do, fucked 😂

BOWMAN

Better Off With Motorola or Nokia...

[Davet]

On 21/09/2023 at 12:50, The Waco Kid said:

 

I find it interesting that the compromise in mobility is mirrored between the infantryman and armour. The latter having become steadily heavier with extra add ons, do dada's and "stuff". The new Abrams (maybe the X) is looking to be lighter, they can save a few tons just on wiring. The M10 Booker "not a light tank" but it is really. Firepower is good but it needs to be able to get there!

 

Start renovating those CVRT's boys!

On Herrick, it was a very obvious observation. Switch from lightly armoured ECBA to better protected but heavier Osprey, increase the firepower available with extra ammo/weapons (UGL, sharpshooter, etc) and mobility would always suffer - there’s only so much a human can carry before performance is (exceedingly) compromised. 12hr patrols covering 5-6 miles max not uncommon for dismounts.

 

But, but, Ajax Recce platform - a recce vehicle with the size/signature of an IFV and look at what’s happening to large armoured vehicles in Ukraine, with loitering munitions/drones. CVR(T), those were the days - mechanised infantry Recce Pl commander back in the day…!

[TheFull9]

I was thinking about it a bit, and the conclusion I came to is that aside from the weight of the L85 the big issue is that there's no industry around it to iterate improvements.  Our government has killed both private and public small arms production/development in the UK for the most part, so unless we setup and pay loads of money for specific iteration work and improvement on the SA80 series then nothing gets done.  I don't think it'd be wildly untrue to say that essentially the opposite is true of the AR platform in the states; there's more companies than probably any one person knows, all of them constantly trying to beat the others at offering the latest and greatest variant of the western world's darling assault rifle.  It's been a game of decreasing returns on investment for a long time now, just chipping away at very small performance increases as the technology is pretty much at it's limit, but when you have unimaginable amounts of money being poured in to seeking out those small gains you end up with an impressive end product.  Heck that bloke pictured has almost nothing of British origin on him anywhere, even MTP as a pattern was mostly developed by Americans with only a smidge of input from ol' DPM.

The biggest capability increases in the past 10-15 years have been in optics, lasers and other accessories and the other issue with the L85 is it's not quite as good of a mounting system for those things as the AR.  Obviously the A3 is a lot better but not quite on the same level.  Partly through the weight, partly the general layout and ergonomics and the fact all those gadgets are again designed with an eye on the DoD/US market (and therefore the AR layout even if it's something like the XM7).

 

I'm sure other have seen US SOF guns (especially longer range setups) absolutely dripping with gadgets to the point you can barely see the rifle anymore.  You can easily fit 10s of thousands worth of extras on something like a 6.5CM semi-auto that might 'only' cost say $5-8k and those things allow the shooter to pull off pretty crazy feats, especially at night and at long ranges.  That's the sort of thing can really give us an advantage now over a bloke with an SVD or PKM.  Or you know.. a PLA infantryman.

[EvilMonkee]

I missed DSEI as well this year, mainly cos I couldnt be arsed with the journey to London.  Next year maybe, as I work for Defence Equipment and Support its kinda aimed at me LOL

[Tommikka]

28 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

as I work for Defence Equipment and Support its kinda aimed at me LOL

Slightly

Unless you’re managing DAS4 services in DES

[EvilMonkee]

On 23/09/2023 at 17:39, Tommikka said:

Slightly

Unless you’re managing DAS4 services in DES

Nah I work in Engineering, working on a some Naval platforms and some radars currently