Inner Barrel Length

[softair]

How much difference to range and accuracy does the inner barrel length make? What about the diameter?

 

In a mid range AEG, and if all other specs were identical, would you rather have a 6.03mm 200mm inner barrel or a 6.01mm 100mm barrel?

 

What if the diameter was the the same e.g. 6.01mm but the barrel length was different. 100mm vs 200mm. Would the difference really be all that noticeable? If so, what kind improvements to the range/accuracy could you expect from the longer inner barrel?

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by softair
Added question

[Impulse]

In an AEG, barrel length and diameter makes very little difference. I don't do AEGs, but this is my understanding of it.

 

Smaller diameter will typically up the power a little. I like 6.03mm barrels as 6.01mm barrels don't really affect the accuracy, but if you don't keep them very clean you'll find shots becoming very inconsistent as anything in the barrel will affect the BB more as there's less gap between the BB and the barrel.

 

Barrel length (and diameter to a lesser extent) interacts with cylinder volume. Cylinder to barrel ratio is basically the relationship between the air volume in your cylinder and how much of the barrel it will fill. In an ideal setup, your cylinder air volume will be able to fill the inner barrel but not exceed it, as that way you get the best compression and it will make the power very consistent. Generally, with heavier ammo, you actually want shorter barrels in AEGs because cylinders typically don't have enough volume to fill those longer barrels. Both of my AEGs are long and one of the upgrades I've done to them is giving them a full cylinder to increase that air volume to get through those 500mm barrels.

 

As I said, I don't really do AEGs so I'm sure someone will correct me where I'm wrong or elaborate where I've missed stuff out. I typically use gas guns where barrel length is very much a consideration as gas guns suffer from joule creep with heavier ammo

[softair]

In your opinion, in an AEG, is 110mm inner barrel quite short? From what I've heard about 280mm-350mm is ideal for AEG's. Andi f that is the case would I lose a considerable amount of range/accuracy and fps with such a shorr barrel?

[ak2m4]

at 110mm you're going to struggle getting enough air for sufficient power, you'll have to compensate with a stronger spring leading to more stress on the gearbox.  it's not impossible of course but comes with risks.  

[softair]

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it!

 

So this is the gun I've been eyeing up: https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/evolution-airsoft-ghost-xs-emr-carbontech-ets?fv=18965

Yeah, it is quite a short inner barrel but the specs do sound pretty good. From what I've seeing it should at least reach 30-40metres quite comfortably without excessive hop. Or am I completely in the wrong on that assessment?

There's also this AEG: https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/evolution-airsoft-ghost-emr-carbontech-ets-ii-smart-airsoft-gun?fv=18594

Identical except the barrel length is an additional 100mm.  Think it would make much of a difference? 

 

For CQB clearly the XS is the better choice but I do want something that can hold its own on medium engagements too. At this point I should probably stop burning daylight and make a decision. 

 

 

 

[ak2m4]

not sure how they perform, probably similar but who knows with those Italians 🙂

 

I'd go for the longer version if I had to choose between them.  

[Leo Greer]

Inner barrel length certainly does matter, but not as much as many people think.

 

Very simply, the inner barrel only needs to be long enough for the BB to stabilize in the barrel. Heavier BBs fly slower, and therefore have more time for a certain barrel length, so you can get away with a shorter barrel length.

 

How short exactly? Some debate this, but I find the optimal length for AEGs with a standard cylinder setup to be above 230mm. I and other players have achieved very accurate results using barrels of only 250mm. I'll also comment that optimal length is *individual to your setup* and these numbers I'm throwing out are loose rules and not definitive in any way.

 

Now, shorter barrels can still be accurate, as many pistols prove. I'm not trying to say that if your barrel is shorter than 230mm it will be *inaccurate*, simply that you may experience less than optimal accuracy for your BB weight, level of stabilization, etc.

 

I'll also mention that when a barrel is too long it can also cause issues, but that's another question entirely. Most airsoft forums have a post nowadays explaining cylinder voluming, so go check that out if you're interested.

 

As to the Evolution Airsoft rifles, they look to be from the same OEM as many of the Lancer Tacticals and the Novritch SSR4. In summary, not so hot. They'll probably work, but given the QC and level of crappery I've seen from some of the Lancers, and even some of the SSR4s (usually better QC, but a lot of the early ones had big issues), I wouldn't pay that.

 

To be even more specific, all of Lancer's current M4 lineup and the SSR4 use the same crappy barrel assembly. Meaning, the hop unit, hop packing (rubber), and the barrel are mediocre at best and fit together pretty badly in some cases. In particular, accuracy on the Lancers I've worked on was trash.

 

I would suggest a G&G, Specna, or an Arcturus as a starter, with Arcturus being probably the best value for the money, Specna being the cheapest for their sport line variants, and G&G being the most reliable, having had years and years to work out their issues and kinks, as well as to acquire an army of people who know how to work on them.

[RostokMcSpoons]

4 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

 

I would suggest a G&G, Specna, or an Arcturus as a starter, with Arcturus being probably the best value for the money, Specna being the cheapest for their sport line variants, and G&G being the most reliable, having had years and years to work out their issues and kinks, as well as to acquire an army of people who know how to work on them.

 

 

 

Ahem.

 

 

(Double eagle says 'hello' 😋)

[Leo Greer]

4 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

 

(Double eagle says 'hello' 😋)

 

Ahhhh, I forgot DE!

 

Nevermind Specna and G&G then. DE is cheap enough for me to toss them out the window. I will still stick with my Arcturus recommendation though. No clue how hard they are to get in the UK though...

[softair]

52 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

Now, shorter barrels can still be accurate, as many pistols prove. I'm not trying to say that if your barrel is shorter than 230mm it will be *inaccurate*, simply that you may experience less than optimal accuracy for your BB weight, level of stabilization, etc.

So of those two guns, in your opinion. the XS model with only a 110mm Inner Barrel won't perform as well as the standard EMR version that has an inner barrel is of 210mm? I would see a difference in range and accuracy between those two options?

 

 

52 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

As to the Evolution Airsoft rifles, they look to be from the same OEM as many of the Lancer Tacticals and the Novritch SSR4. In summary, not so hot. They'll probably work, but given the QC and level of crappery I've seen from some of the Lancers, and even some of the SSR4s (usually better QC, but a lot of the early ones had big issues), I wouldn't pay that.

 

As far as I can tell EA do all their own in-house production of their airsoft weapons. What makes you suspect they have outsourced it to the same guys who do LT?

55 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

 

Ahem.

 

 

(Double eagle says 'hello' 😋)

I've come across DE, they seem like a solid choice. What are your thoughts on Double Bell, or Golden Eagle?

[Rogerborg]

58 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

I would suggest a G&G

 

Not at their current daft prices.  They work well, and the plastic is decent, but when you can get fire control systems, quick change springs, rotary hops and all sorts for the same money, they just don't make a good argument for themselves any more.

 

 

3 minutes ago, softair said:

So of those two guns, in your opinion. the XS model with only a 110mm Inner Barrel won't perform as well as the standard EMR version that has an inner barrel is of 210mm? I would see a difference in range and accuracy between those two options?

 

Probably.  It really depends on the specific example that you get: airsoft quality control can be more what you'd call an aspiration.  Interesting that PatrolBase claim less energy for the longer barrel one. It could be down-sprung, under-volumed, or just have a dodgy air seal - on the examples of each that they tested.

 

A a first / only gun, for woodland and CQB, I'd go for one of the longer models.  Short barrels do work, I love my MP5K, but for CQB or as a sniper secondary.  For woodland primary, I run 200mm+.

 

That said, the right gun is the one that puts the biggest smile on your face. If the heart say stubby, go for it.  Worst case, you can throw a silencer and longer inner barrel on it for outdoor use (and spring, and cylinder and...), that's common enough.

[softair]

 

5 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

That said, the right gun is the one that puts the biggest smile on your face. If the heart say stubby, go for it.  Worst case, you can throw a silencer and longer inner barrel on it for outdoor use (and spring, and cylinder and...), that's common enough.

That was my thought. I could splurge and upgrade the inner barrel if necessary.

 

From what I've been reading the HOP quality and smoothness of the inner barrel is what really makes an AEG shine.

 

At the end of the day every gun pretty much fires 30-40 metres without excessive HOP, and without diverting from whatever you're aiming at. 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

28 minutes ago, softair said:

I've come across DE, they seem like a solid choice. What are your thoughts on Double Bell, or Golden Eagle?

 

No personal experience of either... One of them makes bargain price GBBRs which might be worth a try, but really I'd place Double Eagle on a higher tier of value/quality

 

There are quite a few DE Fan Bois here 😎

[Leo Greer]

1 hour ago, softair said:

So of those two guns, in your opinion. the XS model with only a 110mm Inner Barrel won't perform as well as the standard EMR version that has an inner barrel is of 210mm? I would see a difference in range and accuracy between those two options?

 

As far as I can tell EA do all their own in-house production of their airsoft weapons. What makes you suspect they have outsourced it to the same guys who do LT?

 

I've come across DE, they seem like a solid choice. What are your thoughts on Double Bell, or Golden Eagle?

 

No real reason for there to be a range increase, unless the FPS is different. This is, of course, assuming both are good examples of the gun and not badly put together/QCed. It would mainly be a difference in accuracy, though Rogerborg pretty much summed it up.

 

Why do you think they do their own production? Almost no one does their own production. Most American and EU brands are based in America and the EU, and as such it's impractically expensive to have a factory in their home country. Instead, Taiwan, HK, Japan, and China do most of the heavy lifting. For example, the Lancer Gen 3s are made by Lonex. Specna used to OEMed by E&C, who also OEMs for the Cyma Platinum line. Cyma doesn't own any tooling for anything but AKs, so they outsource *all* of their M4s/AR15s. Arcturus and E&L are both manufactured by MOS. Or, for example, Maple Armouries, which is a Canadian company who uses E&C as their OEM. The list goes on.

 

In this case, we're talking China. I know they're the same because of identical internal parts. Hop units tend to get reused between models, and weirdly enough motor grips do as well. With a little digging and some research you can visually identify the origins of almost any airsoft rifle. Some parts change, but others don't.

 

Unfortunately never got my hands on a DE, but I know several reputable techs who have done quite a lot with theirs. They seem to offer solid internals with maybe mid-level barrel groups. The kicker is that their version of ETU actually seems to be okay, rather than having serious issues within a few months.

[ak2m4]

8 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

E&C, who also OEMs for the Cyma Platinum line.

 

Never heard this before.  I speak with the E&C and CYMA reps all the time.  Nothing suggests this since the designs / molds are quite different from model to model.  

[Impulse]

15 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

No personal experience of either... One of them makes bargain price GBBRs which might be worth a try, but really I'd place Double Eagle on a higher tier of value/quality

 

There are quite a few DE Fan Bois here 😎

 

I've heard from a few people that Golden Eagle gas shotguns are better than the TM ones. One of the marshalls at Worthing has a TM m870 breacher where he has basically replaced all of the internals for Golden Eagle internals but kept the TM externals. I want to get a Golden Eagle m870 breacher myself at some point

Edited May 9, 2023 by Impulse

[Rogerborg]

17 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

Detailed, specific claims

 

8 hours ago, ak2m4 said:

fite me in IRL

 

Hang on, hang on, wait a second...

 

 

... OK, go!

[Krisz]

5 hours ago, Impulse said:

 

I've heard from a few people that Golden Eagle gas shotguns are better than the TM ones. One of the marshalls at Worthing has a TM m870 breacher where he has basically replaced all of the internals for Golden Eagle internals but kept the TM externals. I want to get a Golden Eagle m870 breacher myself at some point

That's crazy when Golden Eagle (or any kind of breacher gas shotgun) is a straight copy of the marui one....🤣

[Rogerborg]

57 minutes ago, Krisz said:

That's crazy when Golden Eagle (or any kind of breacher gas shotgun) is a straight copy of the marui one....🤣

 

The materials may be somewhat different though.

 

[Tiercel]

When did double eagle get good? All I remember is them producing £30 springer shotguns. I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole, but maybe Im just out of the loop. 

[Krisz]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

The materials may be somewhat different though.

 

I was told by internet experts that a marui never breaks so I don't know... 🤷‍♂️

Edited May 9, 2023 by Krisz

[Speedbird_666]

31 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

When did double eagle get good? All I remember is them producing £30 springer shotguns. I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole, but maybe Im just out of the loop. 

 

About two years ago - they dropped the M9xx series from nowhere and the momentum has been growing behind them ever since. Reliability (from user feedback) seems to match the likes of G&G and their Combat Machines, but at a much better price and (importantly) feature point.

 

I just jumped on the bandwagon to see what they are like (M904G) and so far I am very impressed.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Don't worry,  DE still make some shitty old springers
 

 

But there are threads for the new ones, you can see they're not full of people complaining about them, though the stock spring is made of cheese and will need replacing.   And the stock hop rubber is tough as old boots, so might as well chuck in something a bit more malleable to hop 0.28s and up

 

 

...  one I started, which has some accuracy and upgrade tests

 

 

[Lozart]

On 08/05/2023 at 14:15, softair said:

 

 

For CQB clearly the XS is the better choice

 

 

 

 

That's just marketing bullshit and spandex boy hype. When my main site was The Mall (too soon, RIP), I would regularly play with full length M4s, a SCAR-L, an M249 (no, really - it was hilarious). I've seen people playing with M14s (granted, the SOCOM short barrel ones but still).

 

Unless you're playing in a broom cupboard, 100mm vs 200mm is completely moot. Get the long one.

[BigStew]

4 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

That's just marketing bullshit and spandex boy hype. When my main site was The Mall (too soon, RIP), I would regularly play with full length M4s, a SCAR-L, an M249 (no, really - it was hilarious). I've seen people playing with M14s (granted, the SOCOM short barrel ones but still).

 

Unless you're playing in a broom cupboard, 100mm vs 200mm is completely moot. Get the long one.

My mate played the Mall with an Stock Ares WA2000.