UPS RIF Declaration for Parts

[Tackle]

2 hours ago, PewPew4U said:

So, it's been 2 months since my WGC shop order landed in the UK, I have been patient and have jumped through all UPS' hoops of "RIF paperwork" etc, which had to be sent a total of 6 times before they finally got it.. Then UPS wanted a copy of the sale invoice from me, which I provided, then they wanted a copy of the invoice from Siucut at WGC shop, then they wanted another because reasons, then they are telling me the package has gone missing, then it's found but it's in UPS' warehouse, will be here soon, NOW it's still with customs, which is "out of our hands"
I politely asked if they needed any more paperwork to which UPS staff reply "I am afraid that we do not have the visibility to confirm the necessary paper works needed." even though they knew about the paperwork before... So I'm on the "It's out of our hands" square of the Snakes and Ladders board. 
I phoned Customs, spoke to them.."It's a UPS problem, it's out of our hands"
Phoned UPS again.. "It's a Customs thing, it's out of our hands."  You get the idea. Been going back and forth for weeks.

After two investigations, one initiated from my side and one from WGC's side by UPS, I'm none the wiser as to who has my package or where it even is.
Many phone calls, some arguments with members of staff, who do their best to bullshit the shit out of me, still no idea WTF is going on.
Any suggestions guys? I'm shit out of ideas and getting a little pissed off. I'm of the opinion, at this point, that there may be a scam being run here? Every time I enquire over the phone I get a different problem from each member of staff, it's a circus. Thanks for reading my rant, if anyone has an idea, or suggestion that may help, feel free to comment, it's hopeless at the moment, so hell, it is what it is. 

Maybe get WGCshop on the case, while we're all responsible for customs charges etc, that's not the issue here, sounds more like ups have lost it, & WGC have the contract with ups, not you, so let them put the boot in, on the understanding that you've been patient enough, & you'll be claiming for a refund or replacement in 7 days (hopefully your funding source will still honour it if it's not dragged on for too long🤞)

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Tackle said:

sounds more like ups have lost it, & WGC have the contract with ups, not you

 

Bingo. Ultimately, WGC can claim their money back from UPS, you can't.  Your claim is against WGC.

 

I wouldn't go into detail or nuance, just "UPS have lost your goods, so I need my money back". Let them argue it out.

 

If you get any sort of runaround, initiate a chargeback with your bank or card handler. This itself takes weeks to complete and you can cancel the process at any time, so the sooner you get it started the better. I've found that initiating it results in retailers suddenly getting their thumb out.

[Tommikka]

6 hours ago, PewPew4U said:

I'm of the opinion, at this point, that there may be a scam being run here? Every time I enquire over the phone I get a different problem from each member of staff, it's a circus. 

More likely to be incompetence with a missed scan, ripped label etc.  The possibility of pilfering remains but there’s plenty of scope for things to get lost among the system 

 

 

@EDcasehas hit the nail

 

Pincer movement between WGC for UPS compensation and the police for a missing replica 

The former is what’s required

The latter could result in a physical search & review of the internal detailed tracking points 

[EvilMonkee]

Hate to say I told you so but.......hope you get your money back soon and I can affirm that this will 100% be all UPS fault not WGC

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by EvilMonkee

[PewPew4U]

18 hours ago, EDcase said:

Sorry to hear.

Only  think I can suggest is next time you call someone at UPS tell them you'll have to inform the Police as the item is a replica firearm and its disappearance may have to be investigated by them.

Now that you mention it, that's a pretty damn good idea. Thanks.

[PewPew4U]

So, here is a brief typed copy of my mail from this afternoon.  erm WTAF

 

Notice of seizure
 

pursuant to section 139(6) of the customs and excise management act 1979 (herein after referred to as the act) and paragraph1 of schedule 3 there to, you are hereby given notice that, by virtue of the powers contained in the act, certain goods have been seized, namely:

1x  airsoft rifle

Received from: Mr Ho from Honk Kong

as liable to forfeiture under section 49(1)(b) on the grounds that:-

They are goods imported into the UK contrary to the prohibition in force (see below); and also possibly

They were mixed, packed or found with prohibited/restricted goods and/or

They were not described accurately by the sender on the written declaration which accompanied the parcel.

They are imported contrary to the prohibition in force
 

Warning
 

The seizure of these goods is without prejudice to any further action that the border force may take against you in connection with the seizure

Yours faithfully     Officer 21549    Border Force.

 

They also remind me about fines and prison time too....Jesus, really? It's an effing toy ffs.

Edited December 8, 2023 by PewPew4U

[Shamal]

1 hour ago, PewPew4U said:

So, here is a brief typed copy of my mail from this afternoon.  erm WTAF

 

Notice of seizure
 

pursuant to section 139(6) of the customs and excise management act 1979 (herein after referred to as the act) and paragraph1 of schedule 3 there to, you are hereby given notice that, by virtue of the powers contained in the act, certain goods have been seized, namely:

1x  airsoft rifle

Received from: Mr Ho from Honk Kong

as liable to forfeiture under section 49(1)(b) on the grounds that:-

They are goods imported into the UK contrary to the prohibition in force (see below); and also possibly

They were mixed, packed or found with prohibited/restricted goods and/or

They were not described accurately by the sender on the written declaration which accompanied the parcel.

They are imported contrary to the prohibition in force
 

Warning
 

The seizure of these goods is without prejudice to any further action that the border force may take against you in connection with the seizure

Yours faithfully     Officer 21549    Border Force.

 

They also remind me about fines and prison time too....Jesus, really? It's an effing toy ffs.

Tell them to give it back now or you are telling ya mam!!

[PewPew4U]

I have had a good look through the paperwork and noticed on the invoice that the AUG a3 is stated as being "Under 2 joules" so I'm wondering if that was the reason they pulled it.
So I'm in a situation where if I fight this, they might chrono the thing and it turns out that it shoots too hot, then I'll be in the shit, is that right? fuck, I dunno what to do.

Edited December 8, 2023 by PewPew4U

[JimFromHorsham]

Was it declared at full value on the shipping labels ? 
 

was it declared as an airsoft RIF or “toy gun” ? 
 

both those are things they love to take your shit over … 

 

 

[PewPew4U]

18 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

Was it declared at full value on the shipping labels ? 
 

was it declared as an airsoft RIF or “toy gun” ? 
 

both those are things they love to take your shit over … 

 

 

Full value declared, but the R.I.F acronym wasn't used, however, it is named as "GBB AIRSOFT" so not sure.  I have a terrible feeling about this.

Edited December 8, 2023 by PewPew4U

[JimFromHorsham]

4 minutes ago, PewPew4U said:

Full value declared, but the R.I.F acronym wasn't used, however, it is named as "GBB AIRSOFT" so not sure.  

Have you’ve personally checked your UKARA is live on the database ? And the UKARA address matches the shipping address ? I see a lot of folk who who just think it renews automatically and sadly without the usual size 10 encouragement it rarely does 😕 

 

other than that I’m at a loss for the legal aspect , usual border farce fuckery

Edited December 8, 2023 by JimFromHorsham

[PewPew4U]

11 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

Have you’ve personally checked your UKARA is live on the database ? And the UKARA address matches the shipping address ? I see a lot of folk who who just think it renews automatically and sadly without the usual size 10 encouragement it rarely does 😕 

 

other than that I’m at a loss for the legal aspect , usual border farce fuckery

I'll try check the database, thanks for the tip. I had no idea I could look myself actually.

[JimFromHorsham]

6 minutes ago, PewPew4U said:

I'll try check the database, thanks for the tip. I had no idea I could look myself actually.

if you can’t do it yourself or get your site to do it drop me a line and I can help 👍🏼

[PewPew4U]

4 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

if you can’t do it yourself or get your site to do it drop me a line and I can help 👍🏼

Thanks Jim, I'll check in with my site, they are still open...nice of you to offer though, cheers =D 

[JimFromHorsham]

1 minute ago, PewPew4U said:

Thanks Jim, I'll check in with my site, they are still open...nice of you to offer though, cheers =D 

No problem , I’ve been at the shitty end of the stick with border force through no fault of mine ,it was an entirely legal importation just utter incompetence from the “system” . I had to push very hard to get a written letter clearing my name 👍🏼

[PewPew4U]

5 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

No problem , I’ve been at the shitty end of the stick with border force through no fault of mine ,it was an entirely legal importation just utter incompetence from the “system” . I had to push very hard to get a written letter clearing my name 👍🏼

I have just called my club...and sure enough, I'm not live on the system.  

9 minutes ago, PewPew4U said:

I have just called my club...and sure enough, I'm not live on the system.  

The club told me I don't have to be on the database, but I have a feeling that's why my pew has been seized, oh well.

[Rogerborg]

I'm very sorry to hear this.

 

We've had a few members who've had Dibble show up to look into their importation of an assault-style-toy.  However, nobody's been prosecuted or convicted for it (absent some chancers with CO2 powered 'self defence' .50 cal paintball guns).

 

So, deep breaths.  It's a long, lonnnng way from here to any real consequences.

 

What I'd suggest that you do is to contact https://www.ukapu.org.uk/ and ask for advice.  Someone there will be able to talk you through the legislation, the airsoft defence that applies, and how you can demonstrate it, should you need to.

 

If it were me, I'd print off several copies of an information pack listing the offence (VCRA 2006, S36 causing a realistic imitation firearm to be imported), the defence (S37 as amended, permitted activity, airsoft use) and your defence (membership of an airsoft skirmish site with 3rd party liability insurance, I hope), plus contact details for anyone who can confirm that.  Keep this handy, get in some decent tea and a nice biscuit selection (Garibaldis!), and welcome in any coppers sent out to investigate your criminal empire - they won't have any real clue why they've been sent out.

 

It almost certainly won't come to that, but better to have the information and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[mightyjebus]

If you UKARA/Site Membership isn't valid then get the site to provide a email or letter with your game days over a 12 month period along with a copy of the Sites public Liability Certificate. This is enough for Border Force.

 

The letter from BF should state they are seizing but also offer options for why it might be released.

[PewPew4U]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

I'm very sorry to hear this.

 

We've had a few members who've had Dibble show up to look into their importation of an assault-style-toy.  However, nobody's been prosecuted or convicted for it (absent some chancers with CO2 powered 'self defence' .50 cal paintball guns).

 

So, deep breaths.  It's a long, lonnnng way from here to any real consequences.

 

What I'd suggest that you do is to contact https://www.ukapu.org.uk/ and ask for advice.  Someone there will be able to talk you through the legislation, the airsoft defence that applies, and how you can demonstrate it, should you need to.

 

If it were me, I'd print off several copies of an information pack listing the offence (VCRA 2006, S36 causing a realistic imitation firearm to be imported), the defence (S37 as amended, permitted activity, airsoft use) and your defence (membership of an airsoft skirmish site with 3rd party liability insurance, I hope), plus contact details for anyone who can confirm that.  Keep this handy, get in some decent tea and a nice biscuit selection (Garibaldis!), and welcome in any coppers sent out to investigate your criminal empire - they won't have any real clue why they've been sent out.

 

It almost certainly won't come to that, but better to have the information and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Rogerborg, thanks very much for taking time to post and ease my concerns. Was a little bit "wtf..whaaa" for a moment there, yikes. 

1 hour ago, mightyjebus said:

If you UKARA/Site Membership isn't valid then get the site to provide a email or letter with your game days over a 12 month period along with a copy of the Sites public Liability Certificate. This is enough for Border Force.

 

The letter from BF should state they are seizing but also offer options for why it might be released.

There was no mention of a way forward for recovery of items in the letter I received.  I do have a valid UKARA though, it just hadn't been updated by the member of staff following my renewal. Thanks for the input as well, much appreciated.

[EDcase]

Sorry to hear.  For any future use, you can check your UKARA status by calling FireSupport on 01733 247171

Might still be worth sending a letter from your site or renewing your UKARA and letting them know.

[PewPew4U]

Thanks for all the help with this from various members, was great guys cheers. Sadly I won't be getting my package it seems. RIF was tested and is, according to them a section 5. 

[Tackle]

15 minutes ago, PewPew4U said:

Thanks for all the help with this from various members, was great guys cheers. Sadly I won't be getting my package it seems. RIF was tested and is, according to them a section 5. 

Sounds like the retailer is at fault here, either due to their declaration on the documents, or the actual rif supplied being not fit for purpose in the UK. 

If I were you I'd argue this with the retailer, don't rollover & take any BS, & maybe start a claim straight away via your funding source. 

[PewPew4U]

@Tackle Claim started 3 weeks ago, thought I'd roll the ball early.

 

[Jacob Wright]

As a UKAPU Rep - we’re starting to see more of these seizures where retailers mark the RIFs as having fps over 1J. 

We are aware of it, and we are pushing Border Force for explanations around the investigation of each seizure. 

[PewPew4U]

17 minutes ago, Jacob Wright said:

As a UKAPU Rep - we’re starting to see more of these seizures where retailers mark the RIFs as having fps over 1J. 

We are aware of it, and we are pushing Border Force for explanations around the investigation of each seizure. 

That's great to know you guys are doing something about these kind of situations. I feel I also have to comment on the wording in their letters, it's vague as all hell, and at worst can seem quite scary to be honest. When "unlimited fine" and "no less than 5 year sentence" and "up to 7 years sentence" following "further investigations" are bandied about in the text, making one feel like the flying squad are gonna jump through the effing window any minute.
My wife and I REALLY enjoy shooting and were going to try and get into Real Steel, long distance target shooting next year...I don't think we'll bother if this is the amount of bullshit that gets levelled at toy guns in this country, can't even imagine what RS regs would be like. What a damn shame.