Dodgy AF Eagle6 airsoft tech proud of illegal AEG

[Tackle]

If your in the UK, & you modify or manufacture an airsoft gun that is capable of full auto fire & that also exceeds a very specific fps/joule limit, then you have technically broken the law, irrespective of where your planning on exporting it to ?. 

So while we as players usually do our utmost to ensure Airsoft is viewed in a positive AND LEGAL manner in order to ensure the longevity of our hobby, here we have a retailer who is blase enough to break the law, & stupid enough to broadcast that fact to anyone that has Internet access. 

🤬

46 minutes ago, mogaly674 said:

I am interested in knowing what the issue is as most of the larger retailers like Firesupport, Zero one etc will post worldwide and I am sure if they were asked to upgrade a weapon to the customers countries limits they would but because Eagle 6 has posted a video on YouTube its seen as a cardinal sin, or am I missing the point. 

 

Thanks 

If they're prepared to offer those services to overseas clients, that's between them & the overseas client, but the minute they broadcast it, it becomes an issue that has the potential to affect all UK players. 

[EDcase]

43 minutes ago, mogaly674 said:

I am interested in knowing what the issue is as most of the larger retailers like Firesupport, Zero one etc will post worldwide and I am sure if they were asked to upgrade a weapon to the customers countries limits they would but because Eagle 6 has posted a video on YouTube its seen as a cardinal sin, or am I missing the point. 

 

Thanks 

Where do you get that information?

Show us an example where any company has upgraded an airsoft weapon over the UK legal limit.

 

Some manufacturers do provide their products over our limits from the factory because other countries have higher power limits.

Legally those should be downgraded to sell in the UK but many retailers fail to do that.

That's different to purposely making one illegal.

 

[mogaly674]

I don't have any kind of proof but as they do custom builds and post worldwide, without any other information I can only assume that the companies would build and ship a rif above the UK limits. 

 

I have also looked at some other Eagle 6 video's and they also show multiple videos of weapons that they have shipped abroad so why now has it been raised as an issue. 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, mogaly674 said:

I am interested in knowing what the issue is as most of the larger retailers like Firesupport, Zero one etc will post worldwide and I am sure if they were asked to upgrade a weapon to the customers countries limits they would but because Eagle 6 has posted a video on YouTube its seen as a cardinal sin, or am I missing the point. 

 

Column A, column B.  None of them should be doing it. Export is irrelevant. Two offences are being committed: one at the point of manufacture, and another by possession with the intent to sell (to anyone, anywhere).

 

But it's the publicising of it that's the real problem, and their "lol whatevs" attitude.

 

The chances of it being an issue are tiny, but it's blithering idiocy to even risk it, since the State does get an occasional hard-on for anything firearms related, and Eagle6 are openly flaunting their contempt for the law.  I just hope that they don't have any disgruntled customers who see it and figure out that it might be a way to stitch them up see justice done.

 

Why it's an issue for everybody else is that the airsoft defence for selling a RIF could be removed on Ministerial whim: airsoft isn't even listed in the legislation, it's only mentioned in an explanatory note which is little more than an opinion piece, and a different opinion could be given tomorrow.  Retailers are being trusted to self-police and uphold the letter and spirit of the laws around airsoft guns, and if too many of them get caught showing thumbing their noses, it could have consequences.

 

It almost certainly won't, and the world will keep turning either way.

[Cannonfodder]

What is the legal power limit for rifs in the UK? 

[SBoardley]

I believe it is 1.13 JOULES (!!) for auto capable rifs…(The boys will be ooh so proud of me!)

[EDcase]

2 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

What is the legal power limit for rifs in the UK? 

Legal limits are: (All measurements with 0.2g BBs)

1.3j = 374fps for auto capable weapons

2.5j = 518fps for single shot only weapons (auto cannot be available)

 

Most UK sites use lower limits. (For insurance reasons to make sure that an error in measurement doesn't result in allowing an illegal weapon to be used)

1.14j = 350fps for auto capable

1.49j = 400fps for semi auto (DMR)

2.32j = 500fps for bolt action (Sniper)

 

THIS is useful for joule/fps conversions

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by EDcase

[Rogerborg]

22 minutes ago, EDcase said:

1.3j = 374fps for auto capable weapons

2.5j = 518fps for single shot only weapons (auto cannot be available)

 

Yes, although I'll have a little screech about even mentioning "fps" since the legislation talks only in terms of kinetic energy and "a missile (of any kind)".  If push comes to legal shove, the State isn't going to drop 0.2g in there, but 0.46g or even steel BBs.  The intention is to limit what non-firearm airsoft guns could do in the wrong hands.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57A

[EDcase]

Yes true.

FPS was stated to give a reference for those who aren't familiar with the intricacies of Joule creep

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, EDcase said:

Legal limits are: (All measurements with 0.2g BBs)

1.3j = 374fps for auto capable weapons

2.5j = 518fps for single shot only weapons (auto cannot be available)

 

Thanks. I knew it was somewhere around there, just wasn't sure of the exact figure and Google wasn't helping

[SBoardley]

4 hours ago, SBoardley said:

I believe it is 1.13 JOULES (!!) for auto capable rifs…(The boys will be ooh so proud of me!)

Ffs. One day I’ll actually get it…..

[AirSniper]

On 16/11/2021 at 09:40, Crazy_Crystal said:

While i'm assuming it's for an international customer that is a really dumb thing to post on their youtube page... i can't even understand why they thought that was a good idea to advertise that they're willing to produce something that's actually illegal.

 

It is illegal to even make.

36 Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

 

 

Then the power...

(4)The permitted kinetic energy level is—

(a)in the case of a weapon which is capable of discharging two or more missiles successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;

(b)in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

 

 

And in any case, irrespective of after market user, the laws on power are clear, just being in possession of an illegal RIF (power) is an offence.

FPS 382 = 1.36 Joules on 0.2g

I figure any argument will have the +/- 10% thrown in which would mean that they are still illegal. 

To be sure that you are legal, your FPS on 0.2g should not exceed 356 / 357 fps, that allows for 10% over that 1.1840 Joules, +10% is 0.1184 + 1.184 = 1.298 Joules

REMEMBER... ITS "JOULES" POWER that is measured by law, not the FPS.

People also forget that all quoted powers are +/- 10%, which means while you want to up to max power, you do need to consider that you may well be producing an illegal weapon by swapping out components.

ALSO another thing that leaps out the legislation is the particular and careful use of language.

In short... UNLESS you are a REGISTERED FIREARMS MANUFACTURER and in order to do that, YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO REGISTER... As an (RFD) Registered Firearms Dealer in order to be able to do it legally and also in compliance with the LOCAL LAWS.

Meaning that it matters not what your client wants, as long as it leaves you with the proper settings, what the client doers thereafter is up to them and the risks they want to take with the laws.

https://www.gov.uk/register-as-a-firearms-dealer

On 22/11/2021 at 11:23, Cannonfodder said:

What is the legal power limit for rifs in the UK? 

1.3 Joules for anything capable of full or semi auto

2.5 Joules for single bolt action jobs.

[Nick G]

3 hours ago, AirSniper said:

 

1.3 Joules for anything capable of full or semi auto

2.5 Joules for single bolt action jobs.

Doesn't the 2.5 apply to anything capable of only 1 shot per trigger pull not just to bolt action ? otherwise all those DMR setups are in the poo 

[AirSniper]

1 hour ago, Nick G said:

Doesn't the 2.5 apply to anything capable of only 1 shot per trigger pull not just to bolt action ? otherwise all those DMR setups are in the poo 

That is what "blot action" is, each projectile has to be loaded independently through the action of a bolt that cocks the rifle and loads the next projectile.

You can use regular BB guns in airsoft as they are slide action to cock and load the spring per firing. As long as they chrono safe, you're good to go. Which is based on 2.5 Joules max. As a regular BB gun can start entry level at around 500 fps.

[Nick G]

'Bolt action' implies typical airsoft snipers. However an aeg can also fire at 2.5 j as long as it can only fire once per trigger pull (no full auto) as can a GBBR again as long as it can only fire semi which covers DMRs which are typically aegs but capable of over 1.3j

 

Your initial statement of 1.3 joules for anything capable of full or semi auto is incorrect, 1.3j only applies to full auto , my GBBRs have a bolt that loads the next projectile by moving and cocking the gun, but they are full auto capable  so limited to 1.3j max. The Gas DMR I am building at the moment is internally the same but has a semi only selector so is ok up to the 2.5j although my local site limits DMRs to 1.9j.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Nick G

[EDcase]

Remember, you don't want to aim for the legal limits.

Aim to get below site limits.

 

But be aware that chrono readings do vary between machines so you might be reading under the limit on yours but it could be over on the site one.

 

As proven by most TM guns, you don't need max fps to be effective.

[Nick G]

30 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Remember, you don't want to aim for the legal limits.

Aim to get below site limits.

 

But be aware that chrono readings do vary between machines so you might be reading under the limit on yours but it could be over on the site one.

 

As proven by most TM guns, you don't need max fps to be effective.

Very true, I generally have my guns running on the low side and dont have any range issues. The DMR i'll be quite happy at anywhere around 1.7j which will give plenty of headroom. 

I was just making the point that legally it could run at 2.5j as it is only capable of semi auto fire .

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Nick G said:

Your initial statement of 1.3 joules for anything capable of full or semi auto is incorrect

 

If you've seen his ballistics thread, you needn't quality that to "initial statement".

[Nick G]

8 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

If you've seen his ballistics thread, you needn't quality that to "initial statement".

Ah, haven't seen that one . One or two inacuracies ?

[Rogerborg]

45 minutes ago, Nick G said:

One or two inacuracies ?

 

In the sense that 9/11 was when "some people did some things".

[AirSniper]

AN AIRSOFT GUN... as long as it complies with the ENERGY OUTPUT of the Policing and Crime Act 2017 as of 2nd  May 2017... As long as the equipment is below the maximums stated, ARE NOT controlled by the firearms act.... 

HOWEVER,  IF upgrade and that power is greater than the legal stated power, you are committing a fire arms offence.

To make a weapon in the UK you have to be a RFD or RFM. Register with the police and also complete their application, prove various things as well as show that you have a clear understanding of the fire arms act. The reason for that is that YOU make or prove or supply without a licence an item that is illegal, its a couple of years in the jug for you.