Good Irr Bdus and Gear for Night Time Sneakiness

[Impulse]

Looking for some pointers on this. I'm going to my first 24h event in the summer, as long as the rona doesn't come back with a vengeance, and I want to make sure I've got the kit I need. This doesn't mean night vision goggles or optics, because that stuff is really expensive and would be a huge investment going into something that I think I will enjoy, but I have no idea for sure! However, on the flip side I don't want to glow under IR light, especially since I'll likely be my squad's recon guy and marksman, depending on what's needed, so being able to go unnoticed is pretty important. I've got day-time camo sorted in my ghillie, but it's not IRR treated so while it mostly uses natural foliage for camo, the non-natural bits will light up under IR light.

 

So my question to you all is what is a good supplier of IRR-treated BDUs and/or load bearing gear? I've got most of the load bearing gear sorted, because I'm a huge Warrior Assault Systems fan and their stuff is IRR, but I'm always up for looking at new gear there. The big one is BDUs. Would ex-issue stuff be IRR treated?

 

Furthermore, is IRR weapon paint worth the investment? I haven't sprayed my guns yet, but if it's worth getting I'll splash out a little more and get the stuff that will help me camo at night from IR light and NVGs.

[Adolf Hamster]

that's a thing?

 

from what little night time shenanigans i've done with my old gen 1 the only thing that seems to show up under IR is eyeballs and other people putting out IR

 

 

can't say i noticed camo/skin/guns etc being any shinier than the rest of the environment

[hitmanNo2]

It does vary between manufacturers and material, dye etc so in general, the likes of TMC and Emerson don't do too well.  Plus RS stuff like Crye will lose it's effectiveness after a few washes.

 

Good example video

 

 

[DRay]

So IRR material is definitely a thing. Based on what I have gleaned from work;

 

- it’s only necessary if OPFOR have very sensitive equipment. I would query whether it is required for airsoft, unless it is a pretty serious MilSim (in which case, if you want additional team members then I am down!) 

- issued kit is most definitely NOT IRR rated. The MoD will barely provide us with kit that doesn’t melt when it is near an open flame, never mind stuff that is woven with copper (which I think is how they achieve IR masking). 
- as far as I am aware the only IRR kit I own is a camelbak day sack and bergen (which are IRR entirely by accident because I was issued US kit for an OpTour). I imagine it is pretty chuffing expensive. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by DRay

[Monkman]

Don't wash IRR treated clothes with washing powder etc...it has brightening agents in it which will destroy the IR properties of the clothes.  (I read this somewhere)

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

IRR treatment absolutely makes a difference. Pictured in the vid below is some truspec tigerstripe and some russian ss-leto. admittedly none of these are marketed as IRR resistant but compare it to the chinese made gear below. The difference is much more apparent with the IR illuminator turned on, though you can still notice the difference with it off.  I've ordered some IRR spray paint so I will compare later.

 

Its harder to find stuff specifically marketed as IRR treated. I was specifically looking at combat shirts as I am currently combat shirt-less. I was looking at OPS/Ur-tactical ones which have milspec sleeves which should be IRR treated. However I doubt the torso portion is - i note this is the same with the british army ubacs too.

 

as for washing i have no idea at all but a friend in the army says this:

 

"Use a stiff brush and no cleaning products, bit of mud is "ally"

But serious don't know what would preserve IRR - normally they're good for "100 washes" and you have to exchange the kit. (Which never happens)"

 

 

 

[Albiscuit]

Wow, Like many others  had no idea this was a thing. But then my experience of nods is pretty much 98% watching SEAL TEAM and 2% some pics on here.

 

I never needed to know and doubt it will be useful in real life in the future but I have learnt something new today  

[Impulse]

I only know about it since doing night events against guys with expensive night vision equipment. Always looking to improve my armed-hide-and-seek game and feel like I've got a pretty solid grasp on the day, but the night  adds the extra layer of IR complexity and not wanting to glow like a Christmas tree under IR illumination. I'm just fortunate I've always been of the "buy expensive, buy once" mindset, so the vast majority of my load bearing gear that I've accumulated over the years is all real-steel and IRR treated. Also, my ghillie suit isn't made of cheap chinese materials, making it still usable at night, though I still need to do some tests under IR light which I can't do by myself due to not having any NVGs myself.

 

I need to get some weapon paints too, so I'm glad I didn't spray my guns yet as now I'll probably shell out for IRR weapon paints for a bit more money, rather than buying normal paints.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

22 hours ago, Impulse said:

 This doesn't mean night vision goggles or optics, because that stuff is really expensive and would be a huge investment going into something that I think I will enjoy, but I have no idea for sure! However, on the flip side I don't want to glow under IR light, especially since I'll likely be my squad's recon guy and marksman, depending on what's needed, so being able to go unnoticed is pretty important.

No point being recon if you're going up against people with NODs

 

Night vision is definitely a huge investment and I totally get why you don't wanna invest - but equally, you simply won't spot anyone before they spot you. If you want to excel in that role you're going to need something, imo - Consider a handheld thermal unit. "Cheap" at ~£500, and completely overpowered for spotting/stag/etc

[Guest Airsoft J2]

Good question! What I did in your situation was to get a decent white light and an FMA PEQ. If  you're feeling spendy, do as @DrAlexanderTobaccosays and go thermal for spotting bad guys. You'll see them much better with this than with NVDs - they're magic.

 

Having said that, I do a lot of weekend events and have got Gen 2+ NVDs which are awesome up and until things get very shooty, at which point it's white light and lasers everywhere. Sneaky first shots under IR lasers and stuff is great but as soon as it gets scrappy, white lights go on and NVDs go off.

 

Very few people will actually use IR illumination because it's visible for any other NVD users. I'd be more focussed about basic fieldcraft skills and your ability to navigate and move quietly to where you need to be and to keep your heads down when you're there at night.

 

For a first 24hr game, I'd proritise getting admin kit sorted properly and then working on skills like navigation, movement, patrolling, hand signals and comms - these will make you and your team much more deadly than IRR treated smocks.

 

I've done a few blog articles at airsoftj2.co.uk if you're interested - lots of info and advice there.

[Lozart]

12 hours ago, Airsoft J2 said:

 

 

For a first 24hr game, I'd proritise getting admin kit sorted properly and then working on skills like navigation, movement, patrolling, hand signals and comms - these will make you and your team much more deadly than IRR treated smocks.

 

 

This.

 

 

[Paladin]

British Army surplus gear is all IRR treated, and cheap a chips for Grade 1 used... Just picked up a really good quality Osprey Plate carrier for £25 sans pouches, and the pouches are only £4\5 quid each... BDU's normally cost about £35 for upper and lower, can't go wrong really

 

If you want to pay more, check out UK Tactical or Military 1st

[Lozart]

2 hours ago, Paladin said:

British Army surplus gear is all IRR treated, and cheap a chips for Grade 1 used... Just picked up a really good quality Osprey Plate carrier for £25 sans pouches, and the pouches are only £4\5 quid each... BDU's normally cost about £35 for upper and lower, can't go wrong really

 

If you want to pay more, check out UK Tactical or Military 1st

 

I'd be impressed if the IRR treatment on surplus gear is still any good.

[hitmanNo2]

This video shows an as new Crye shirt working as designed.  It would be interesting to see a comparison with a washed surplus one though.

 

 

[Impulse]

16 hours ago, Airsoft J2 said:

Good question! What I did in your situation was to get a decent white light and an FMA PEQ. If  you're feeling spendy, do as @DrAlexanderTobaccosays and go thermal for spotting bad guys. You'll see them much better with this than with NVDs - they're magic.

 

Having said that, I do a lot of weekend events and have got Gen 2+ NVDs which are awesome up and until things get very shooty, at which point it's white light and lasers everywhere. Sneaky first shots under IR lasers and stuff is great but as soon as it gets scrappy, white lights go on and NVDs go off.

 

Very few people will actually use IR illumination because it's visible for any other NVD users. I'd be more focussed about basic fieldcraft skills and your ability to navigate and move quietly to where you need to be and to keep your heads down when you're there at night.

 

For a first 24hr game, I'd proritise getting admin kit sorted properly and then working on skills like navigation, movement, patrolling, hand signals and comms - these will make you and your team much more deadly than IRR treated smocks.

 

I've done a few blog articles at airsoftj2.co.uk if you're interested - lots of info and advice there.

 

Thanks! This is a brilliant post!

 

The fieldcraft is the main thing I want to focus on, as it doesn't cost me any money to improve my own skills. Fortunately, for admin kit I've got basically everything I need from my cadet days; just need a sleeping bag, bivvy bag and will pick up a basha as they seem pretty cheap, but everything else is sorted. Picked up a Baofeng UV-5R+ as well, as I've been meaning to get a radio for aaaaaaaaaages to use in skirmish games and any events I go to as typically I like to play a recon role in skirmish as well; I didn't because I thought it would be more expensive than it was! I'm quite good at the fieldcraft and moving quietly side, as it's what I tend to practice at skirmish days anyway; people are often surprised at how few shots I actually take through a skirmish day, even the other bolties use way more BBs than I do. It's just how I enjoy playing!

 

The thermal for spotting seems like a good idea though, but a bit pricey for my current budget, however if I do like this style of event I'll probably look at getting some form of either night vision goggle setup or a night vision optic for my VSR in 2022. I've got some white light in the form of a light on my mk23 (not the TM LAM unit. That thing was awful), but I'm thinking a PEQ for the 416 wouldn't go amiss, and they aren't too expensive. I'm taking both the VSR and my 416 to the event, as I expect being tactically flexible should be advantageous. Worst case I'll leave one in the harbour area, but I'm actually comfortable carrying both and have done so before; being 6'5" and built like a house has its perks

Edited March 10, 2021 by Impulse

[Guest Airsoft J2]

On 10/03/2021 at 13:47, Impulse said:

 

Thanks! This is a brilliant post!

 

The fieldcraft is the main thing I want to focus on, as it doesn't cost me any money to improve my own skills. Fortunately, for admin kit I've got basically everything I need from my cadet days; just need a sleeping bag, bivvy bag and will pick up a basha as they seem pretty cheap, but everything else is sorted. Picked up a Baofeng UV-5R+ as well, as I've been meaning to get a radio for aaaaaaaaaages to use in skirmish games and any events I go to as typically I like to play a recon role in skirmish as well; I didn't because I thought it would be more expensive than it was! I'm quite good at the fieldcraft and moving quietly side, as it's what I tend to practice at skirmish days anyway; people are often surprised at how few shots I actually take through a skirmish day, even the other bolties use way more BBs than I do. It's just how I enjoy playing!

 

The thermal for spotting seems like a good idea though, but a bit pricey for my current budget, however if I do like this style of event I'll probably look at getting some form of either night vision goggle setup or a night vision optic for my VSR in 2022. I've got some white light in the form of a light on my mk23 (not the TM LAM unit. That thing was awful), but I'm thinking a PEQ for the 416 wouldn't go amiss, and they aren't too expensive. I'm taking both the VSR and my 416 to the event, as I expect being tactically flexible should be advantageous. Worst case I'll leave one in the harbour area, but I'm actually comfortable carrying both and have done so before; being 6'5" and built like a house has its perks

 

My pleasure. At the risk of blowing my own trumpted (ooo matron), check out airsoftj2.co.uk for some more ideas. 

 

One other thing to think about - at night, the only BBs you'll see are tracers (noting that visibility works boths ways - your targets will see exectly where shots are coming from). This means that, if you're not using tracers and are depending on a PEQ laser or a red dot, make sure that everthing is properly zero'ed.

 

Enjoy the games when they come.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

21 minutes ago, Airsoft J2 said:

 

My pleasure. At the risk of blowing my own trumpted (ooo matron), check out airsoftj2.co.uk for some more ideas. 

 

One other thing to think about - at night, the only BBs you'll see are tracers (noting that visibility works boths ways - your targets will see exectly where shots are coming from). This means that, if you're not using tracers and are depending on a PEQ laser or a red dot, make sure that everthing is properly zero'ed.

 

Enjoy the games when they come.

Hi - do you know what IRR is? I've got myself in a muddle. I have feeling that rather than meaning "resistant" (which is a common assumption and one I made too) it actually means reflective - to better match the reflectivity of foliage. 

 

This is an interesting (well, depends on what you find interesting!) of UFPRO trousers. Note that the elastic sections and kneepads seem to "glow" - but imo it matches the pallate of the IIT image / background terrain

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKbiOHAn3WG/

 

Point taken about field craft and I appreciate this may be more more theory than practice..but i am a total and utter nerd and won't apologise!

 

Cheers 

[Lozart]

6 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Hi - do you know what IRR is? I've got myself in a muddle. I have feeling that rather than meaning "resistant" (which is a common assumption and one I made too) it actually means reflective - to better match the reflectivity of foliage. 

 

IRR coatings are, as you say "reflective". 

 

Quick bit of physics - things are a certain colour because they absorb certain wavelengths of light and reflect others. White reflects everything, black absorbs everything, blue just reflects the blue part of the spectrum etc.

If you have a material that absorbs IR light then it appears black under IR based night vision (regardless of what colour it appears under visible light). IRR coatings and materials seek to reflect some or all of the IR light so that they don't just appear black.

 

It's particularly noticeable on things like cheap rigs where the plastic buckles and nylon webbing will show up completely black and make it REALLY obvious where you are!

 

The intent of IRR materials for uniforms is to pick dyes that have the right level of IR absorption to create a camouflage effect under night vision rather than an overall "treatment" that would make you show up as a block colour.

[lukeB]

I've seen more people going for bright lights and thermal in the last year or so. Maybe thats due to better and cheaper devices.

 

Hard to hide from thermal unless your name is Alan Schaefer.

 

95% of the time a big light is all you need.