Question for Airsoft Site Owners: (Or anyone that runs sites)

[El aston]

How do you find it when people book a day, more for the ones that don’t require a pre payment just names sent over etc. Is it frustrating when people don’t turn up? Is it an issue? Would it not be better with some sort of pre payment or deposit as it’s a guarantee then.... plus you are 100% on numbers.

Just a general question 
Thanks in advance 🙂

[Immortal]

I find it equally frustrating when you try and book a group in advance and you get no repsonse. So you think sod'em and book elsewhere as the date is approaching only to get a message a day or so before confirming the first booking. Comms is key and time is of the essence when orgainsing a team outing.

[Rogerborg]

It seems to be a problem at my local CQB site. It's entirely pre-book as numbers are limited and it's heavily over-subscribed, but they've had a lot of shenanigans recently with folk booking and then not showing up.  The site loses money and it mucks up the planned games.

 

It was £12 booking + £20 on the day: as of April, it'll be £22 + £10 to try and cut down on the number of no-shows.

 

Being able to transfer or sell on bookings would help, but it's done through PayPal and there's no mechanism for that as far as I can see.

[El aston]

1 hour ago, Immortal said:

I find it equally frustrating when you try and book a group in advance and you get no repsonse. So you think sod'em and book elsewhere as the date is approaching only to get a message a day or so before confirming the first booking. Comms is key and time is of the essence when orgainsing a team outing.

 

 

Totally agree with that mate

22 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

It seems to be a problem at my local CQB site. It's entirely pre-book as numbers are limited and it's heavily over-subscribed, but they've had a lot of shenanigans recently with folk booking and then not showing up.  The site loses money and it mucks up the planned games.

 

It was £12 booking + £20 on the day: as of April, it'll be £22 + £10 to try and cut down on the number of no-shows.

 

Being able to transfer or sell on bookings would help, but it's done through PayPal and there's no mechanism for that as far as I can see.

 

What a nightmare lol!

Yeah some system needs to be in place dosen't it to make it a lot more easier for everyone... Players and site owners 

[Tommikka]

It’s a matter of what works for the site/organiser and for the player base.

 

Taking a deposit places value in the booking for the customer, makes it more likely for them to turn up as opposed to deciding their duvet is warmer than going outside, and if they don’t turn up its a contribution to the cost of paying the marshalls that you have being very underworked.

 

But there are people who won’t want to part with cash in advance .... because it’s not pay day yet, they want the fraction of a penny interest, or they know that they are the type of player who will decide not to turn up and lose their deposit 

 

For the site the number of players expected may or may not make a difference.  They could run with a set number of staff anyway, or they may be able to cater for various numbers of players and increase the marshalls to maintain a safe player/Marshall ratio.  (That also relates to the type of player and balance between regular players and inexperienced rental players)

There is a minimum safe ratio of Marshall/player and the maximum capacity of the site

 

If you have staff on site with no customers then you are wasting wages without income.  A site probably has a mixture of ‘full time’ staff and part time / zero hours contracted staff.  

If staff are on contracts with a guaranteed number of hours working then they know how much they will be paid, so staff are willing to work for you and it doesn’t matter if no players turn up as you have the overhead cost anyway.  

If staff are on zero hour contracts then their income is unreliable as you don’t put them on shift unless you have enough players. You then end up paying them to do nothing or don’t call them in for work. They will end up leaving for a job that will enable them to pay their bills

[1st commando]

12 hours ago, Tommikka said:

It’s a matter of what works for the site/organiser and for the player base.

 

Taking a deposit places value in the booking for the customer, makes it more likely for them to turn up as opposed to deciding their duvet is warmer than going outside, and if they don’t turn up its a contribution to the cost of paying the marshalls that you have being very underworked.

 

But there are people who won’t want to part with cash in advance .... because it’s not pay day yet, they want the fraction of a penny interest, or they know that they are the type of player who will decide not to turn up and lose their deposit 

 

For the site the number of players expected may or may not make a difference.  They could run with a set number of staff anyway, or they may be able to cater for various numbers of players and increase the marshalls to maintain a safe player/Marshall ratio.  (That also relates to the type of player and balance between regular players and inexperienced rental players)

There is a minimum safe ratio of Marshall/player and the maximum capacity of the site

 

If you have staff on site with no customers then you are wasting wages without income.  A site probably has a mixture of ‘full time’ staff and part time / zero hours contracted staff.  

If staff are on contracts with a guaranteed number of hours working then they know how much they will be paid, so staff are willing to work for you and it doesn’t matter if no players turn up as you have the overhead cost anyway.  

If staff are on zero hour contracts then their income is unreliable as you don’t put them on shift unless you have enough players. You then end up paying them to do nothing or don’t call them in for work. They will end up leaving for a job that will enable them to pay their bills

 

It's not just staff costs etc but also that CQB venues especially are expensive to hire . You have to balance this cost with the maximum number of players you can have to make a site enjoyable . Therefore you can't over book to compensate else you run the risk of everyone turning up and the site being too jammed to be fun or no space in car parks, safe zone or possibly exceeding max amounts for fire regulations .

On the other end of this you have the risk of not enough players turning up to cover the cost of renting the property for that day or booking food etc 

[Rogerborg]

Yup, that's the Depot's problem, they can only run limited numbers.  On a good day, they can be rammed to the rafters. On a bad, there's a noticeable lack of folk actually showing up.  It must be hugely frustrating for them, especially given that it generally sells (well books) out well in advance.

[Seth_Erebor]

Each industry has it's own norms.

But in most cases, tickets are not paid for on arrival.

 

Best to start off with it being open, then pre-booking after you get a good rep/following.

[lemon191]

I have no issues with paying a deposit,it helps keep spaces available for longer. The Gaol was a good example of this, when it was free to book on they would be booked up months in advance. Since changing to taking deposits they usually stil have spaces for that months game which makes it alot easier to play there (and shows that alot of people probably booked up spaces just incase they felt like going rather than having actual plans to go) only thing with deposit type game sites I do tend to leave it as late as possible to book incase friends pull out/ plans change as I don't want to be out of pocket. 

[Musica]

56 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Yup, that's the Depot's problem, they can only run limited numbers.  On a good day, they can be rammed to the rafters. On a bad, there's a noticeable lack of folk actually showing up.  It must be hugely frustrating for them, especially given that it generally sells (well books) out well in advance.

I'd prefer to pay it all up front. Hate dealing with cash. 

[Steveocee]

It's almost like you need 2 tiers of pre-booking. Fully paid for and guaranteed place or "name down no payment" which will show that you intend to play but doesn't guarantee you a place.

If text is clear enough explaining that then I'd have no problem as a site owner in explaining that being as you didn't pay then there isn't any room as the site is full.

[Musica]

32 minutes ago, Steveocee said:

It's almost like you need 2 tiers of pre-booking. Fully paid for and guaranteed place or "name down no payment" which will show that you intend to play but doesn't guarantee you a place.

If text is clear enough explaining that then I'd have no problem as a site owner in explaining that being as you didn't pay then there isn't any room as the site is full.

Can't see why you'd want the second list it would only cause problems not solve any.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Musica said:

I'd prefer to pay it all up front. Hate dealing with cash. 

 

Pretty much the only time there's cash in my pocket is when I'm on the way to the Depot.

[Steveocee]

53 minutes ago, Musica said:

Can't see why you'd want the second list it would only cause problems not solve any.

 

Rough idea on numbers I guess.

 

I suppose you could go full on "tech oriented" and enforce an online sign up, payment and entry only to those people (ie no pay at the door players). I guess that would help a lot with waiver signoffs etc but yeah you'd probably get a few angry people if you made the cut on a live site. (Saying that most people have a smart phone these days, or even you could provide an ipad on site as a means to sign on).

[sonofsammo]

As a player, I struggle with this.
I wasted a lot of money on deposits when I started playing - As I am the main carer for my daughter, quite often I don't know if I'm definitely going to play until I'm in the car on my way.
As a result I've pretty much stopped playing at places that require a deposit.
If our team's going to a particular site that requires a deposit I'll do it - but in the knowledge that it's only around 50/50 I'll get to play.

[Rogerborg]

On 26/03/2019 at 14:34, Steveocee said:

I guess that would help a lot with waiver signoffs etc

 

I do wish sites wouldn't waste their time and ours with those useless pieces of paper.

[Prisce]

2 hours ago, sonofsammo said:

As a player, I struggle with this.
I wasted a lot of money on deposits when I started playing - As I am the main carer for my daughter, quite often I don't know if I'm definitely going to play until I'm in the car on my way.
As a result I've pretty much stopped playing at places that require a deposit.
If our team's going to a particular site that requires a deposit I'll do it - but in the knowledge that it's only around 50/50 I'll get to play.

+1

 

I never know till I get up on a Sunday Morning...

[Musica]

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I do wish sites wouldn't waste their time and ours with those useless pieces of paper.

 

Remeber they don't advise  you run or wear trainers! So thats your fault.

[Rogerborg]

10 hours ago, Musica said:

Remeber they don't advise  you run or wear trainers! So thats your fault.

 

Noting hazards is one thing, and they do that at every briefing.

 

It's the novelty purposes "waivers" that we're all meant to sign once a year that are a literal waste of time, as you can't give up your right to redress for bodily injury or death due to negligence.