Airsoft Experience

[Seth_Erebor]

I'm sure we can all agree that the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan contain some of the most true to life and cinematic clips of any war movie ever made.

 

As scary as it was and no disrespect to any veterans, many of us would probably enjoy some kind of VR version of the landing scene and even more so a battlesim version.

 

What other films would make good battlesims? I say films as to pick actual battles may be too near the line for some, so let's avoid that, unless it's Thermopylae or something.

[EvilMonkee]

Gunman already have this covered with their Filmsim series on Cold War and Vietnam as well as a 90's series.  Go look there.  On second thoughts, don't.  Don't want your brand of weirdness spoiling our dressing up wargames.....

[clumpyedge]

35 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

I'm sure we can all agree that the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan contain some of the most true to life and cinematic clips of any war movie ever made.

 

As scary as it was and no disrespect to any veterans, many of us would probably enjoy some kind of VR version of the landing scene and even more so a battlesim version.

 

What other films would make good battlesims? I say films as to pick actual battles may be too near the line for some, so let's avoid that, unless it's Thermopylae or something.

 

Not battle or war but maybe you could

play cast away? 😉

 

I jest, your not Duff

[EvilMonkee]

26 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

 

Not battle or war but maybe you could

play cast away? 😉

 

I jest, your not Duff

 

Are we sure?

[Seth_Erebor]

40 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

Gunman already have this covered with their Filmsim series on Cold War and Vietnam as well as a 90's series.  Go look there.  On second thoughts, don't.  Don't want your brand of weirdness spoiling our dressing up wargames.....

 

I'd probably just fall asleep again

 

38 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

 

Not battle or war but maybe you could

play cast away? 😉

 

I jest, your not Duff

 

Haha! I could do with some sun about now. I was just saying to a coworker that it'd be cool if there were sunbathing places in a rooftop greenhouse, all the sun without the cold.

 

Who is Duff?

 

11 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

Are we sure?

 

 

I want to know!

 

[Tackle]

one of my go to films for getting me "in the mood" for gamedays has to be Blackhawk Down, wouldn't mind doing a filmsim of that on a suitable urban village site, I've played a "skinny" before (more of a "fatty" lol), & I've still got my dreadlocks hat.

[EvilMonkee]

17 minutes ago, Tackle said:

one of my go to films for getting me "in the mood" for gamedays has to be Blackhawk Down, wouldn't mind doing a filmsim of that on a suitable urban village site, I've played a "skinny" before (more of a "fatty" lol), & I've still got my dreadlocks hat.

 

Look up the Gunman 'Deltas of the Suhud' game.  Basically same thing.  I went to a Blackhawk down themed game years ago at Rype FIBUA village - that was epic.  RWA organised it but dont think they have done anything similar recently.  Gunman is your best bet.

[Greg147]

Not a film as such, but I like the idea of the assault on Foy in Band of Brothers for something like this. Crossing an open field with sparse cover to attack entrenched positions, then fighting building to building. Then maybe having the objective to deliver a message across to teammates in another part of the village. Defending team has to look super confused while orchestral music plays and one teammate grins in an impressed manner. 

[Seth_Erebor]

13 minutes ago, Greg147 said:

Not a film as such, but I like the idea of the assault on Foy in Band of Brothers for something like this. Crossing an open field with sparse cover to attack entrenched positions, then fighting building to building. Then maybe having the objective to deliver a message across to teammates in another part of the village. Defending team has to look super confused while orchestral music plays and one teammate grins in an impressed manner. 

 

The Band of Brothers series is an amazing source of material, that's a good shout!

[ImTriggerHappy]

[Tiercel]

Id be well up for a Zulu airsoft day, small squads armed with only bolt action rifles doing fire by rank would be epic. Or Sharpe. 

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

Look up the Gunman 'Deltas of the Suhud' game.  Basically same thing.  I went to a Blackhawk down themed game years ago at Rype FIBUA village - that was epic.  RWA organised it but dont think they have done anything similar recently.  Gunman is your best bet.

I f#cking love rype village, awesome location, plus its only about 4 miles from me, what's not to like lol.

[clumpyedge]

3 hours ago, Tackle said:

I f#cking love rype village, awesome location, plus its only about 4 miles from me, what's not to like lol.

 

The fact the base commander won’t let Airsofters on for the foreseeable future is one thing not to like! Last game played there was a legion game when someone from the military facilities group fucked up by letting them use it and the base commander found out and banned any future events 

 

5 hours ago, Seth_K said:

Who is Duff?

 

Possibly you from another life but with more teen angst and facial hair. He got put on the permanent naughty step for being a stroppy cunt.

[Druid799]

Yrs ago there was an Aliens themed game in the Ucap tunnels in Portsmouth now that was truly an epic gameday !😍

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, clumpyedge said:

 

The fact the base commander won’t let Airsofters on for the foreseeable future is one thing not to like! Last game played there was a legion game when someone from the military facilities group fucked up by letting them use it and the base commander found out and banned any future events 

 

 

Thats a very odd description of a reason why there cannot be airlift events at Rype.

 

I don't know who the 'military facilities group' and 'base commander' describe.

 

Rype Village is a training area under the 'Defence Training Estates' (DTE)

Landmarc operate training areas, (military facilities group?) as a 'Defence Infrastructure Organisation' (DIO) contract

DIO are the Head of Establishment (base commander?)

 

Estate exploitation, such as hiring out for film work, event organisers etc is government and defence policy, the Defence estate costs the taxpayer millions and is a major asset.

This exploitation of the estate brings income into Defence, and isn't as simple as 'letting someone use it', it involves licence contracts, showing your Public Liability insurance etc.

Future events can't be banned by someone getting their knickers in a twist.

Theres some form of Chinese whispers transformation of the story, somebodies excuse or if someone 'fucked up by letting them use it' then that implies some bloke unlocked the gate and let their mates in

[Seth_Erebor]

3 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Theres some form of Chinese whispers transformation of the story, somebodies excuse or if someone 'fucked up by letting them use it' then that implies some bloke unlocked the gate and let their mates in

1

 

Yup haha!

[Tommikka]

Lydd remains listed on the Landmarc events page, but only shown as available for filming, and airsoft is still listed as an activity for other sites.

It does not mean that if an activity isn't listed that it can't take place 

 

 

http://locations.landmarcsolutions.com/places/index.php?view=location_images&location_id=107

[clumpyedge]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

Thats a very odd description of a reason why there cannot be airlift events at Rype.

 

I don't know who the 'military facilities group' and 'base commander' describe.

 

Rype Village is a training area under the 'Defence Training Estates' (DTE)

Landmarc operate training areas, (military facilities group?) as a 'Defence Infrastructure Organisation' (DIO) contract

DIO are the Head of Establishment (base commander?)

 

Estate exploitation, such as hiring out for film work, event organisers etc is government and defence policy, the Defence estate costs the taxpayer millions and is a major asset.

This exploitation of the estate brings income into Defence, and isn't as simple as 'letting someone use it', it involves licence contracts, showing your Public Liability insurance etc.

Future events can't be banned by someone getting their knickers in a twist.

Theres some form of Chinese whispers transformation of the story, somebodies excuse or if someone 'fucked up by letting them use it' then that implies some bloke unlocked the gate and let their mates in

 

All I’m going on is what I was told so yeah probably a bit of Chinese whispers but I was at that last game and told there catagorically won’t be another there. I don’t know names or groups but that’s the genera gist of it much like we can’t use stanta because whoever is in charge of its use and training there got fucked off with the state two Airsoft groups supposedly left it. 

 

Landmarc approved it, someone else higher up apparently didn’t supposedly.

[Tackle]

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Thats a very odd description of a reason why there cannot be airlift events at Rype.

 

I don't know who the 'military facilities group' and 'base commander' describe.

 

Rype Village is a training area under the 'Defence Training Estates' (DTE)

Landmarc operate training areas, (military facilities group?) as a 'Defence Infrastructure Organisation' (DIO) contract

DIO are the Head of Establishment (base commander?)

 

Estate exploitation, such as hiring out for film work, event organisers etc is government and defence policy, the Defence estate costs the taxpayer millions and is a major asset.

This exploitation of the estate brings income into Defence, and isn't as simple as 'letting someone use it', it involves licence contracts, showing your Public Liability insurance etc.

Future events can't be banned by someone getting their knickers in a twist.

Theres some form of Chinese whispers transformation of the story, somebodies excuse or if someone 'fucked up by letting them use it' then that implies some bloke unlocked the gate and let their mates in

I can say that landmarc got a new boss for that region, at the same time invictaairsoft went bust after one of the partners embezzled all the money, while at the same time not paying landmarc (& others), what they were owed, this caused the new boss at landmarc to take an instant dislike to all things airsoft, as well as change the conditions of use for most of the facilities, as well as putting up the prices.

this all happened about 6 years ago, whether the same circumstances still apply I don't know, but its a damn shame as its a great location, as well serial 20 & 40 which are both close by.

[Tommikka]

8 hours ago, clumpyedge said:

 

All I’m going on is what I was told so yeah probably a bit of Chinese whispers but I was at that last game and told there catagorically won’t be another there. I don’t know names or groups but that’s the genera gist of it much like we can’t use stanta because whoever is in charge of its use and training there got fucked off with the state two Airsoft groups supposedly left it. 

 

Landmarc approved it, someone else higher up apparently didn’t supposedly.

 

7 hours ago, Tackle said:

I can say that landmarc got a new boss for that region, at the same time invictaairsoft went bust after one of the partners embezzled all the money, while at the same time not paying landmarc (& others), what they were owed, this caused the new boss at landmarc to take an instant dislike to all things airsoft, as well as change the conditions of use for most of the facilities, as well as putting up the prices.

this all happened about 6 years ago, whether the same circumstances still apply I don't know, but its a damn shame as its a great location, as well serial 20 & 40 which are both close by.

That makes more sense 

 

Unpaid Bills is one thing that wouldn’t help you, 

Lets just say that I know another reason why the MoDs prices for use of the estate nationally and for all activities will have gone up ‘more than inflation’ in recent years, and how the licence / conditions may have changed.

 

I’ll give a nod to the guys a few desks away to poke their noses around,  but it (should) not be in the remit of one new manager of a contractor to ban an activity.

Airsoft and paintball events on training areas are good money spinners, so a contractor banning them would take away an income steam into the defence budget,  stop Landmarc getting paid to do extra work on top of their contract, and stop senior managers getting bonuses for getting extra income from the MoD

 

There may be a relationship between the design / purpose of specific sites and the type/amount of use that gets permitted.

 

 

5/6 years ago does also tie in with issues on events that were cancelled by the MoD

Normally the services pre book training areas long in advance, its just one part of an exercise that needs a significant amount of advance planning.  This allows for commercial bookings.

But in the terms and conditions the priority remains with the MoD if required, and that’s what happened quite a few times back then with event organisers getting their fingers burnt and though given alternate dates had to refund players and ended up with losses

 

Paintball on the defence estate is a little harder to run then airsoft.  NvS was the first at Swynnerton and is still running annually (it’s expanded to airsoft as well). They are unique as they can use coloured paint, but they take on Swynnerton in advance and afterwards for a major clean up operation, NvS is so large that it generates enough £ to make that viabkenfor warped.  The clean up and the specifics of Swynnerton mean this is the only urban training area available to coloured paint 

All other paintball on the estate was only possible due to the commissioning of clear paint.  It just leaves a wet patch on walls with the worst of the gel to be sprayed off and the shells to be swept up

Airsoft also just needs the bbs swept up as opposed to cleaned away

 

Event organisers had a whole series of events pulled from under their feet, at a similar time to urban paintball having peaked plus an increase in the number of organisers stepping in.

A declining market of people, less willing to pay a high premium for what was then less of a novelty, combined with a high risk of loss equals less inclination to risk your money putting on the event 

 

The tale of woe with an organiser embezzling the cash, not clearing up properly and an activity being banned (but without a change of management) is exactly what happened with the Mall and paintball 

 

A well respected organiser was going to run an event at the mall.  They suffered a bereavement but the event was taken on by another respected individual and it was to still go ahead 

A local team were having private mini games at the mall, and decided to run their own first event earlier than the planned one.  Things then got too much for them

It was to be a limited paint, limited Numbers event - suitable for the venue.  But they began to discover the true costs of running an event and to make things add up they made the bad decision of going to unlimited paint

Ignoring the disorganisation, it went to rat shit in minutes of game on.

Carpeted areas were soaked through, wooden & marble floors became ice rinks.

Add to this a bad batch of clear paint, and they had many unhappy customers  

(I had a head injury and spent a fair amount of time with blood dripping down my face - but that was the fault of the idiot shooting my head from a couple of inches away, not the organizers)

Part of the ticket price was for players to assist in the clean up, the majority didn’t - they weren’t going to spend more time sweeping up than playing

We helped in the clean up for a few hours, but it was relentless - clean a wall off then more would drip down the wall from the ceiling, floors were swimming in clear paint and the sawdust that had been brought in.

It was appearant that we were clearing up but the organizers weren’t.

They left without paying the mall, and their guy with the money did a runner

That team clearly no longer exists

Ive heard from airsofters who still had the paint soaking back up months after wards

paintball was banned by the mall and the original planned event cancelled 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Daym that’s a rough story. 

 

Landmarc are alright but not worth dealing with as a landlord. 

 

A lot lot has to do with the fact that the contract renews this year/2020. 

[Rogerborg]

18 hours ago, Seth_K said:

many of us would probably enjoy some kind of [...] battlesim version.

 

Assuming that you mean a game of airsoft played out like that scene, why would we enjoy getting hosed down en masse while slogging uphill towards guns firing from cover?

 

We can get that any time we like by playing very badly at most sites.

 

Once again I'm struggling to visualise what scenario you are imagining that would make it a more enjoyable experience for participants.

[Seth_Erebor]

3 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Assuming that you mean a game of airsoft played out like that scene, why would we enjoy getting hosed down en masse while slogging uphill towards guns firing from cover?

 

We can get that any time we like by playing very badly at most sites.

 

Once again I'm struggling to visualise what scenario you are imagining that would make it a more enjoyable experience for participants.

 

I’m more interested in what everyone else is thinking, I put a setting out there as an example. 

[Rogerborg]

I'm all for trying something new, but what exactly is it that you're proposing with a "battlesim"?

 

Honestly, I'm not clear on what that means, in practice.

 

We've only got the locations that we've got.  I mean, unless you've actually got a private beach to hand, how do you simulate a beachhead?

 

Playing a specific historical or theatrical scenario on a general skirmish site might be a giggle, but balance would be a sod.  It might be do-able with plenty of player-marshals guiding it along, but then if folk aren't taking hits / being told not to take hits (to keep it moving), or deliberately spraying-and-praying to miss, then there are going to be grumbles from folk who want to play fair rather than do Live Action Roleplaying.

 

Then we've got the problem that all airsoft guns are basically the same.  A Firehawk DSG with a box magazine is for all intents and purposes as good as a support gun as any other, so you can't really have "machine gun nests" or anything similarly skewed.

 

That said, you can get MG-42 or M60 BB firearms[*] that shoot close to 2J which you could bunker up to give a real range advantage to skew play.  But how enjoyable would that be for folk getting rinsed from outside their own effective range? Simulation, yes; fun, maybe not so much.

 

Again, if you'd actually flesh out one of these suggestions, we might turn up something interesting.  Just tossing out words like "battlesim" rather leaves us guessing at what you might be proposing.

 

[*] These are legally speaking not airsoft guns.

[Tackle]

10 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

I’m more interested in what everyone else is thinking, I put a setting out there as an example. 

no offence Seth, but this is like all your other posts, you keep dangling a carrot in front of us, essentially hinting at a new airsoft experience etc, & picking our brains for advice & opinions, but nothing solid or proven with your intent ?, you talk the talk but when you gonna walk the walk, so to speak ?