Trying to sell a RIF but am I doing it wrong?

[Samurai]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

 

Ask for link to the Facebook page,...

 

I don't put anything airsoft on my FB page.

 

[Sitting Duck]

3 minutes ago, Samurai said:

I don't put anything airsoft on my FB page.

 

 

I don't even have my own personal real FB

too much digital footprint, employers and who knows who, get to glance at who/what you are up to

(I know there is settings and stuff but be careful what you share n stuff)

Employers will look up potential/existing employees and check what weird hobbies/political views/family weirdo's

 

Some players have had a quiet word about employers concerns about guns & shooting crap & company image

Coz all of us are weirdo's preparing for the next civil war, or wannabee nutters with guns ready to flip out

Or unemployable coz of the way we voted for Brexit/GE etc......

 

Nahhhhh, gotta be a little bit careful of what you share, many think us peew peew lot are weird

(correct in my case)

But honestly - some stuff you share even toy plinky stuff "can" come back to bite ya ar$e

if it upsets snowflake employers or the companies potential customers/partners/image

[Gepard]

The sites I play at upload photos of each game to their Facebook page - which is where the idea came from. I don't have any photos of me playing on my personal Facebook, nor do I tag myself in any of the photos where I am seen playing. But then I only use the service for messaging anyway. Now I spend more time on AF-UK then I ever did on FB. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/Alpha55Airsoft

[Samurai]

11 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

I don't even have my own personal real FB

That's also suspicious.

I have some photos with my kids, some funny stuff, star wars trailers, safe things. Nothing links me to those serial killings...

[Gepard]

Ooh, speaking of Star Wars - Han Solo trailer came out today didn't it? I've gotta watch that at some point. 

[Arwen]

I only recently went back to facebook... left it for a good 5 years cause I was fed up of family politics on it. Returned and now have some pew-related nonsense on it, but it's all locked down. Granted my bosses are friends with me on it, but they are cool and find it amusing when I come to work on a Monday morning walking funny cause I got shot too much or fell down a trench again 

 

29 minutes ago, Gepard said:

Ooh, speaking of Star Wars - Han Solo trailer came out today didn't it? I've gotta watch that at some point. 

By the looks of it, it has "cool" gangster baddies, a train heist, tiny lightsabers, a shouting wookiee and a comedic robot. Oh, and Emilia Clarke, so it should be good 

[Sitting Duck]

7 minutes ago, Samurai said:

That's also suspicious.

I have some photos with my kids, some funny stuff, star wars trailers, safe things. Nothing links me to those serial killings...

 

Seen too much abuse on FB, some of it really nasty and personal....

Long story short, geezer gives me loads of abuse and BS

(abuse is one thing but BS - now THAT I'm an expert in)

 

Without going into detail about stuff - he got $hitty - I got $hitty

he has last word & blocks me - sod that.....

 

10 mins later I can see all his failed businesses at company's house

the registered address/house he lives in on google maps etc.....

 

Not that I am going to bother with anything, the failed/wound up businesses listed

gave me an idea of his business integrity perhaps and found it quite ironic

(without going into detail of what the row was about - nope not political at all in fact)

 

All I'm saying be careful what additional stuff you personally share on social media

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Gepard said:

You could always ask for their UKARA 'licence' and gauge their reaction. 

 

And if they start ranting that "It's not a licence!" then they're probably legit?  

[Gepard]

6 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

And if they start ranting that "It's not a licence!" then they're probably legit?  

 

[Countryman]

Buddy you are looking for a defence to cover your bum selling a toy gun. You are not the Police.

 

You could have my name, my email address, a physical address for delivery if you are posting and my UKARA number. Copy documents you could "jog on"

[proffrink]

I think he's got the point by now

[Rogerborg]

28 minutes ago, proffrink said:

I think he's got the point by now

 

But it's so much easier to kick someone when they're already down.

[Apoch]

5 hours ago, Countryman said:

Buddy you are looking for a defence to cover your bum selling a toy gun. You are not the Police.

 

You could have my name, my email address, a physical address for delivery if you are posting and my UKARA number. Copy documents you could "jog on"

 

Correct fella a toy gun which under British law is illegal.

Illegal in my world is not good. 

[Dentonboy]

2 hours ago, Apoch said:

 

Correct fella a toy gun which under British law is illegal.

Illegal in my world is not good. 

 

Well, not illegal... Unless all of us on here are in some sort of underground cabal... Just restricted, like alcohol and sweet, sweet solvents... 

[Countryman]

Illegal to sell. Illegal to make. Illegal to import but not illegal to own.

 

UKARA is only a Defence for the seller. So it’s illegal to sell anyway if you want to get up tight about it. There is no case law.

 

The RIF is not recorded, has no serial number and would be tough to trace. You as an individual have no way of checking UKARA Number. 

 

You must do do what you feel is right to protect the sport but if you sell in good faith to an adult who says they are a skirmisher with a UKARA Number I cannot seriously imagine the CPS being remotely interested in your prosecution.

 

The fact you want a copy of his Passport is admirable. Has absolutely nothing to add to your defence.

[Tommikka]

8 hours ago, Apoch said:

 

Correct fella a toy gun which under British law is illegal.

Illegal in my world is not good. 

As above, it’s not illegal, but it’s also not a toy. 

There is a clue on the side of the most airsoft guns with the words “This is not a toy”

 

The legislation under the VCRA provides restrictions on IFs and RIFs, airsoft skirmising is in the additional provisions that the act permits.

 

If the IF / RIF exceeds force levels then I could be illegal, but airsoft guns are not illegal in the UK

You as a seller need to satisfy yourself that a sale is legal for either an IF or RIF (buyer is aged 18+) and if selling a RIF that you are reasonably satisfied that the buyer is purchasing for permitted uses.

 

How you satisfy yourself is up to you, but in answer to your original question - yes you are overdoing it and are asking for information that people can feel is too personal

You can stick to what you want until a potential buyer is willing to satisfy you or you can change your requests to increase the odds of a potential buyer 

[Countryman]

8 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

As above, it’s not illegal, but it’s also not a toy. 

There is a clue on the side of the most airsoft guns with the words “This is not a toy”

 

The legislation under the VCRA provides restrictions on IFs and RIFs, airsoft skirmising is in the additional provisions that the act permits.

 

If the IF / RIF exceeds force levels then I could be illegal, but airsoft guns are not illegal in the UK

You as a seller need to satisfy yourself that a sale is legal for either an IF or RIF (buyer is aged 18+) and if selling a RIF that you are reasonably satisfied that the buyer is purchasing for permitted uses.

 

How you satisfy yourself is up to you, but in answer to your original question - yes you are overdoing it and are asking for information that people can feel is too personal

You can stick to what you want until a potential buyer is willing to satisfy you or you can change your requests to increase the odds of a potential buyer 

Tommikka dont get hung up on this but as these guns really are toys. Yes you can hurt with them, blind with them but they aren’t really leathal. Ultimately you can upgrade these to the levels of an Airgun. Realistically it would be simpler if they were treated legally as airguns!

 

Its the appearance of them that dragged them into the VCRA, not the power, That came from successive Governments that have bred a culture of fear regarding anything firearms since 1919.

 

I regularly buy and sell Firearms and frankly there is less angst evident dealing in these than transactions over a RIF.

[Duff]

16 hours ago, Countryman said:

Tommikka dont get hung up on this but as these guns really are toys. Yes you can hurt with them, blind with them but they aren’t really leathal. Ultimately you can upgrade these to the levels of an Airgun. Realistically it would be simpler if they were treated legally as airguns!

 

Its the appearance of them that dragged them into the VCRA, not the power, That came from successive Governments that have bred a culture of fear regarding anything firearms since 1919.

 

I regularly buy and sell Firearms and frankly there is less angst evident dealing in these than transactions over a RIF.

 

Tell that to the Swede sniper who walked off a two storey building trying to get a vantage point. 

[Gepard]

4 minutes ago, Duff said:

 

Tell that to the Swede sniper who walked off a two storey building trying to get a vantage point. 

 

I haven't seen that video in a while. Ouch.

 

[Countryman]

Financially, the hobby is lethal!

[Apoch]

On 09/04/2018 at 11:30 PM, Dentonboy said:

 

Well, not illegal... Unless all of us on here are in some sort of underground cabal... Just restricted, like alcohol and sweet, sweet solvents... 

I'll revise my statement it is an offense to sell or manufacture a RIF, toy or not. I'm not willing to be the first bloke who gets fried as the test case.

 

 If people want to be blase about selling a "toy" because they will never be the one who it bites in the arse than that's their decision. Please don't mock those of us who take the very real potential of the vcra shafting us seriously. 

 

As I said early all it will take is for someone to sell an imitation weapon to a lunatic who goes on to hold up a school and the full force of the vcra will be used. You can bet the person who supplied the weapon will be screwed. Especially in this current global mindset of fear of terrorism. 

[Dentonboy]

17 minutes ago, Apoch said:

I'll revise my statement it is an offense to sell or manufacture a RIF, toy or not. I'm not willing to be the first bloke who gets fried as the test case.

 

 If people want to be blase about selling a "toy" because they will never be the one who it bites in the arse than that's their decision. Please don't mock those of us who take the very real potential of the vcra shafting us seriously. 

 

As I said early all it will take is for someone to sell an imitation weapon to a lunatic who goes on to hold up a school and the full force of the vcra will be used. You can bet the person who supplied the weapon will be screwed. Especially in this current global mindset of fear of terrorism. 

 

Am fully aware of what is and isn't an offence with RiFs thanks Skipper. My point was the use of the word 'illegal' was erroneously used. 

 

Due diligence when selling is absolutely fine and absolutely encouraged, but I think realistic requests for personal information is the key here. 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Apoch said:

Please don't mock those of us who take the very real potential of the vcra shafting us seriously.

 

Well, you can always ask.

 

For what it's worth, I think you're right to satisfy yourself that you're actually selling to a skirmisher.  It's just that there are easier and more direct ways to check that.  For example, asking them where they skirmish, then asking that site if they can kindly confirm that they've been there at least once, and ideally that they're booked in there again.  I believe that's closest to what the letter of the law requires.

[Tommikka]

The key point is that @Apoch has to be satisfied that any potential buyers of a RIF are valid under the VCRA, plus any other legal issues such as being under age.

 

Should anything happen then they could have to justify the sale

 

Whats being asked is probably overkill and the majority of us wouldn’t want to provide that information, let alone to a private seller and it will make it more difficult to sell.

Apoch can change strategy or stick to it.  It’s their choice

 

 

On a similarish but also unrelated matter I’ve just sold a special edition Paintball gun which was well over £1000 retail, I paid less on sponsorship support, and have hardly used it because of the size of my armoury.  It’s under 4 years old and in the last 3 years it has only been used by others  and is a waste of a special edition.  It does pain me to let go of a piece of my armoury but it was going to waste

I vaguely put it up for sale last year, hoping to have a last play with it myself in July, but injured myself and didn’t play with it 

Over the year I’ve had a lot of enquiries, at least 3 sales which were agreed but fell through

I offered it for sale at x, but open to offer and was willing to let it go for y

I had endless conversations with people offering me well below (one offfer at £100) and then had them arguing that it was old, second hand, not so special etc and I was expecting too much

Trying to stay polite I’ve given my rock bottom price (whether cash face to face or properly delivered & with fees, insurance etc)

Many people could not seem to understand my position that I wasn’t selling because I needed the money, but that it’s a waste of good money doing nothing.  Low ball offers and telling me I’m overpricing were not going to convince me to sell, if it didn’t put a decent wedge in my pocket then I’d happily keep the gun in my collection

One ‘buyer’ corrected my ‘error’ that it’s not no longer available in the UK with a listing of it on one retailer new now just over £1000.

Fine - spend £1000 on that one, I held back from pointing out that they list what they don’t have.  It either didn’t exist or they really did have an original on the shelf for 4 years

Alternatively buy one of the other second hand standard ones ..... and see if those sellers will drop their prices to what they were offering ! 

 

After all of that I finally sold at my asking price

Patience prevailed - I sold on my terms to a buyer happy to pay what I was asking

 

 

Second hand sales are a market of what price & how  the seller is willing to sell at and what a buyer is willing to pay

The quicker a sale you want to sell at the more flexible a seller may need to be

[Countryman]

The simple question remains how far is too far. Taking the earlier worst case scenario, no let’s add that the armed attacker gets shot dead by police and they are then motivated to jump the hoops of the guys internet history. What covers you?

 

You have sought to check his age?

You have sought to check he wants it as part of his regular skirmishing hobby?

You have sought reference to his UKARA number?

You have a copy of his passport?

You have a copy of his Drivers Licence?