THE TM MWS thread

[Wo1f]

1 hour ago, Wild Weasel said:

Don't suppose anyone has a 'spare' TM original buffer tube and un-chewed castle nut that they would be willing to sell please as mine has been badly scored by my hao bolt.

Cheers

I might have a couple in a box somewhere. I’ll check in a bit 

[PewPewLoki]

6 hours ago, Hypokondrikern said:

@PewPewLoki

 

Interesting find. I believed that the leak was from the middle of the mag where the two halves meet. That was at least how I got one leak free - simply by merging them with steel epoxy. Anyway, good to know that the valve is 1911 spec for Easy replacement. 
 

The question is however, did they become leak free after you changed out the valve? 
 

Also, could you clarify what o-ring it is that have created the maracas, and where it sits on the valve? I didn’t quite get that ( p.s haven’t seen this o-ring floating around in mind ) 

 

Yeah, just replaced all 5 o-rings and a perfect gas seal now. Used Lees Precision rings from their MWS kit and made sure to keep everything nicely oiled and not overtightened.

 

I've circled the specific one that was missing on all my valves below, (though this is a photo of a different valve brand and not the exact same ones SAA use). If it's missing from your valve, but you can't see/hear it, it may be stuck on the threads the valve uses to screw into place. You might be able to unseat it using a toothpick or a small screwdriver if so.

Edited April 14, 2021 by PewPewLoki

[TadsJ2]

15 hours ago, SSPKali said:

Just tried to set up my spare Dynamic Precision bolt with an AG nozzle set up - absolute tosh. FPS was +/- 18 and all over the place! 

Replaced it with DP nozzle (very tough, dense feeling plastic, all DP springs) and RATech Black NPAS and it is much more efficient and FPS is pretty consistent.

I will be taking the springs and screws out of the AG valve as back-up last-ditch spares and binning the rest!

Can I just clarify? When you were trying AG nozzle set up you were trying all AG nozzle internals right?

 

I personally switched from AG nozzle set up with all AG internals to TM stock nozzle... I only wanted to change the return spring in TM stock, but couldnt take out the pin out of firing pin, so i've taken the pin out of AG firing pin (nozzle return metal side part) ant put the new AG 170% nozzle return spring and the metal part on the return spring from AG.
So my nozzle return is setup as such: TM nozzle stopper, AG 170% nozzle return spring, AG firing pin - all this inside stock TM nozzle, do you think this could cause a problem?

 

I already am waiting for G&P reinforced drop in nozzle set, as i think it will be better then TM?

Edited April 15, 2021 by TadsJ2

[TadsJ2]

19 hours ago, Whereismyhammer said:

I don’t know if you need one you might be strong enough to do it just with the wrench like a normal AR that hasn’t got lock tight in it. I don’t know if they all use the same amount of lock tight on each gun. 
 

but on mine I couldn’t do it without fixing the gun in position. But when you have done it once and broken the lock tight you don’t ever need the vice or blowtorch again. You can just use the wrench on its own after that. 

Nice, will go to someone who has a vice, seems to me it will minimise the risk of damaging barrel nut.

Edited April 15, 2021 by TadsJ2

[TadsJ2]

I've come back from work, and after rereading your thoughts about FPS measurements i thought i should give it a go with my modified TM stock nozzle (with AG 170% nozzle return spring, and AG firing pin) -  with 0,2g bbs first few shots was 108, 107m/s, then it gradually declined to about ~100-98m/s - is this normal for m/s to gradually decline after each 2 shots being shot on semi?  

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by TadsJ2

[Davegolf]

Can we stay in FPS pls 😊

[SSPKali]

11 hours ago, TadsJ2 said:

Can I just clarify? When you were trying AG nozzle set up you were trying all AG nozzle internals right?

 

I personally switched from AG nozzle set up with all AG internals to TM stock nozzle... I only wanted to change the return spring in TM stock, but couldnt take out the pin out of firing pin, so i've taken the pin out of AG firing pin (nozzle return metal side part) ant put the new AG 170% nozzle return spring and the metal part on the return spring from AG.
So my nozzle return is setup as such: TM nozzle stopper, AG 170% nozzle return spring, AG firing pin - all this inside stock TM nozzle, do you think this could cause a problem?

 

I already am waiting for G&P reinforced drop in nozzle set, as i think it will be better then TM?

Yeah it was the AG nozzle and components. With out some fettling with a file the internals lack the flat sides that the TM nozzle bore had.

 

I have ordered a G&P valve stopper (that attaches to the front of the nozzle spring) as it has 3 different sets of holes drilled in it for the tiny Phillips screw to locate in - each hole allows the stop to sit forward (lower power), in the middle, or further back (higher power). Zero chance of self-adjusting or doing odd things to the valve flow

 

Hopefully this alomg with the DP valve will give consistent results, as before, but allow low-med-high power tuning for varying temps. 

3 hours ago, TadsJ2 said:

I've come back from work, and after rereading your thoughts about FPS measurements i thought i should give it a go with my modified TM stock nozzle (with AG 170% nozzle return spring, and AG firing pin) -  with 0,2g bbs first few shots was 108, 107m/s, then it gradually declined to about ~100-98m/s - is this normal for m/s to gradually decline after each 2 shots being shot on semi?  

 

Yeah velocity will vary once the mag settles down, and if you fire shots quickly there will be some cool-down and drop in pressure.

 

I have found that the spread of velocities is worse with 0.20g. Heavier ammo seems to keep the variance smaller. I would say +/- 8 fps between shots is good, and it will probably drop 20 to 25fps over a mag full. Makes next to no difference to accuracy / performance.

[TadsJ2]

m/s to FPS is just a matter of conversion... But okay, no problem, so, after playing more with the nozzles I am sorry to say that i give an edge to AG v2 nozzle It hold FPS/ m/s better, and on medium AG NPAS i get to shoot on around 360-370FPS with everything else stock. With TM stock i get to shoot on around  345-355 FPS for roughly the same gas efficiency... So for now, i am going to stay with AG v2 nozzle, until the G&P adjustable nozzle valve 5.0 and valve stopper comes to me... One thing i noticed that AG V2 nozzle has longer lip which seats better in the stock tm hop up rubber, seems to me it gives better seal and FPS out of it, with highest "power" setting on the nozzle i managed to get 413FPS , but of course after 10shots the magazine was out of gas  

[SSPKali]

27 minutes ago, TadsJ2 said:

m/s to FPS is just a matter of conversion... But okay, no problem, so, after playing more with the nozzles I am sorry to say that i give an edge to AG v2 nozzle It hold FPS/ m/s better, and on medium AG NPAS i get to shoot on around 360-370FPS with everything else stock. With TM stock i get to shoot on around  345-355 FPS for roughly the same gas efficiency... So for now, i am going to stay with AG v2 nozzle, until the G&P adjustable nozzle valve 5.0 and valve stopper comes to me... One thing i noticed that AG V2 nozzle has longer lip which seats better in the stock tm hop up rubber, seems to me it gives better seal and FPS out of it, with highest "power" setting on the nozzle i managed to get 413FPS , but of course after 10shots the magazine was out of gas  

Mine was a v1, but there is no way I am giving them any more money for a v2! Using customers as paying r&d / putting out shoddy products is not acceptable.

[TadsJ2]

32 minutes ago, SSPKali said:

Mine was a v1, but there is no way I am giving them any more money for a v2! Using customers as paying r&d / putting out shoddy products is not acceptable.

From what i see their V2 version has more durable plastic in it, only the springs could be changed to a better set - probably dynamic precision or G&P ones, but i am quite happy with the results i am getting so far, will make a post when I will be able to take out the barrel nut and fit longer inner barrel alongside ML bucking and nub  Also have high hopes for G&P 5.0 nozzle set (fingers crossed)

[SSPKali]

Fire Support were as speedy as usual and the G&P adjustable valve stop was delivered today.

 

TL;DR: 3 easy settings to tune to temps / gas - but may not play nice with stock TM parts, more testing needed.

 

Overview:

It comes with an o-ring to fit the "firing pin" end of the nozzle spring. Also included is a little grenade pin to help locate the valve stop and align the screw hole.

 

There are 3 sets of holes for the screw to fit, each a slightly different distance from the front meaning you have a low, medium and high setting as this controls how far back (or forward) the rocket valve sits. Kind of like a 3 step NPAS, but not interfering with the valve function and no chance of unscrewing and firing a grub screw down the barrel!

 

The brass body has some subtle flats machined into it meaning that it doesn't rotate as you push it down the nozzle to getting the correct hole lined up is easy. The pin makes it easier to locate as it is a snug (but not tight) fit in some nozzles and has to be perfectly straight to seat properly.

 

Testing:

 

First I tested my stock TM bolt set up (TM bolt, nozzle, valve, valve spring, Dynamic Precision upgraded nozzle spring set & green piston cup) to get a baseline with 0.30g on ASG gas at 14degC gave an average of 273fps (6fps spread)

 

I then used that exact set up with the G&P valve stop and it gave the following average FPS: Low - 61, Medium - 152, High - 230.

 

Yes, those are FEET per second, not meters! Great if you want to run black gas in the middle of a heatwave I guess??? Seems that it didn't play nice with the TM nozzle/valve for what ever reason. One day, when I have time, I will revisit this and try to pin down the issue, I am guessing the internal bore of the TM nozzle is the issue but I can't say for sure at this stage.

 

I then tested a set up I knew would increase the FPS - Premium Aftermarket Setup (Same TM bolt; Dynamic Precision nozzle, alloy valve, valve spring, upgraded nozzle spring & green piston cup)

 

Low - 145fps, Medium - 240fps, High - 277fps.

 

That is more like it! The consistency was also really good, I think from previous testing that this is down to the allow DP valve (3fps spread!). The medium setting will be great for running it in the summer (c. 20degC) or in cooler temps on Red gas. I am guessing the low will be around the 200-210fps mark so probably not that useful unless you have loads of Nuprol Black gas kicking about.

 

Summary:

A nicely made bit of kit that does exactly what it should and gives enough adjustment for UK weather and gas options. I just need to work out why it hated the TM nozzle, valve and valve spring so much! YMMV.

 

Pictures:

Blue background - G&P nozzle stop kit, Red background - Dynamic Precision valve 

Edited April 17, 2021 by SSPKali
edited for clarity and LOW power setting data

[RMDavis]

Has anyone built up an MWS PDW style rifle? 8.5" outer barrel or less as an example?

 

Was thinking of building up a spare upper to do just that, but was worried about range/accuracy if you start going below the standard 10.5" found on the CQBR.

 

As you would need to shorten the already short 250mm inner barrel to about 200mm!

 

I currently run a 10.3" on my mini URGI with no issues, but to go for 8.5" in barrel size is quite different! 

 

P.S @Wild Weasel

 

I also removed my HAO BCG yesterday as upon inspection I found mine too had started to cause damage to the entrance of the buffer tube.

 

It would also occasionally throw the bolt forward when inserting a fresh mag, not ideal...

 

Put the TM one back in and have no issues, shame as the HAO one looks awesome but I'd much rather have a rifle that works correctly and doesent chew itself up!

[TadsJ2]

14 hours ago, SSPKali said:

Fire Support were as speedy as usual and the G&P adjustable valve stop was delivered today.

 

TL;DR: 3 easy settings to tune to temps / gas - but may not play nice with stock TM parts, more testing needed.

 

Overview:

It comes with an o-ring to fit the "firing pin" end of the nozzle spring. Also included is a little grenade pin to help locate the valve stop and align the screw hole.

 

There are 3 sets of holes for the screw to fit, each a slightly different distance from the front meaning you have a low, medium and high setting as this controls how far back (or forward) the rocket valve sits. Kind of like a 3 step NPAS, but not interfering with the valve function and no chance of unscrewing and firing a grub screw down the barrel!

 

The brass body has some subtle flats machined into it meaning that it doesn't rotate as you push it down the nozzle to getting the correct hole lined up is easy. The pin makes it easier to locate as it is a snug (but not tight) fit in some nozzles and has to be perfectly straight to seat properly.

 

Testing:

 

First I tested my stock TM bolt set up (TM bolt, nozzle, valve, valve spring, Dynamic Precision upgraded nozzle spring set & green piston cup) to get a baseline with 0.30g on ASG gas at 14degC gave an average of 273fps (6fps spread)

 

I then used that exact set up with the G&P valve stop and it gave the following average FPS: Low - 61, Medium - 152, High - 230.

 

Yes, those are FEET per second, not meters! Great if you want to run black gas in the middle of a heatwave I guess??? Seems that it didn't play nice with the TM nozzle/valve for what ever reason. One day, when I have time, I will revisit this and try to pin down the issue, I am guessing the internal bore of the TM nozzle is the issue but I can't say for sure at this stage.

 

I then tested a set up I knew would increase the FPS - Premium Aftermarket Setup (Same TM bolt; Dynamic Precision nozzle, alloy valve, valve spring, upgraded nozzle spring & green piston cup)

 

Low - not tested due to time, Medium - 240fps, High - 277fps.

 

That is more like it! The consistency was also really good, I think from previous testing that this is down to the allow DP valve (3fps spread!). The medium setting will be great for running it in the summer (c. 20degC) or in cooler temps on Red gas. I am guessing the low will be around the 200-210fps mark so probably not that useful unless you have loads of Nuprol Black gas kicking about.

 

Summary:

A nicely made bit of kit that does exactly what it should and gives enough adjustment for UK weather and gas options. I just need to work out why it hated the TM nozzle, valve and valve spring so much! YMMV.

 

Pictures:

Blue background - G&P nozzle stop kit, Red background - Dynamic Precision valve 

Thats some nice info, unfortunately I didnt receive my packages yet so I can not post my measurements, I wonder how it will work with my G&P enchanced nozzle setup when it will arrive, will make a similar spreadsheet to yours

[SSPKali]

I have updated my long post above with the LOW power setting as I had some time today.

 

Unfortunately after setting it back to HIGH and checking it on the chrono the back of the DP nozzle sheared off 😱

 

So I popped the set up in the TM nozzle and tested it - with all TM parts it was putting out 220fps on HIGH. (0.30g BBs, Nuprol Green)

 

I put in the DP valve and spring and it went up to 261fps.

 

Then, because my day couldn't really get worse*, I sanded 0.1mm off the "pegs" on the front of the G&P valve stop.

 

High jumped from 261 to 296fps (+35fps) and Medium went up to 263fps (+22fps) This means that Medium is a useful power on green gas on 14degC days, and High can be used in winter conditions. I think that Low might still be a bit under powered but never mind!

 

Now lets hope that my TM nozzle survives tomorrows game!

 

JKArmy and Eagle6 are sorting me out with a nozzle, G&P roller bolt, little bolt roller and pin so I have a complete drop in spare ready to go 👍

 

*EOTech clone that arrived didn't work and when I tried to unscrew the cap to try another battery it wouldn't budge (not x-threaded) and then sheared the compartment off in the body. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by SSPKali

[Jacket]

7 hours ago, RMDavis said:

Has anyone built up an MWS PDW style rifle? 8.5" outer barrel or less as an example?

 

Was thinking of building up a spare upper to do just that, but was worried about range/accuracy if you start going below the standard 10.5" found on the CQBR.

 

As you would need to shorten the already short 250mm inner barrel to about 200mm!

 

I currently run a 10.3" on my mini URGI with no issues, but to go for 8.5" in barrel size is quite different! 

 

P.S @Wild Weasel

 

I also removed my HAO BCG yesterday as upon inspection I found mine too had started to cause damage to the entrance of the buffer tube.

 

It would also occasionally throw the bolt forward when inserting a fresh mag, not ideal...

 

Put the TM one back in and have no issues, shame as the HAO one looks awesome but I'd much rather have a rifle that works correctly and doesent chew itself up!

I did one a year or so back 

 

[AngryDad223]

Hey All, 

 

just a quick report on some issues (not really) that I experienced today with my MWS at a skirmish

 

The morning was cold so I swapped out my Aluminium Buffer for the OG plastic one. I noticed when loading up more of a twang from the buffer spring, I put it down to the lesser weighted OG buffer.... 

 

down to firing it felt slightly sluggish, but I cracked on all day. I only typically use semi so when the day was over and I unloaded my mags using full auto was like an old hand cranked machine gun. 
 

I closed the stock and noticed a spring noise, taking the stock off i noticed the end cap had come clean off. The small retaining screw had jumped ship but it is threaded so should be okay for now.

 

Realistically I’m quite impressed, with such a bad ‘malfunction’ it still worked, all day. Gas efficiency was poor, but power was OK and it didn’t miss a beat.

 

to top it off, the site I played at was super dry / dusty. My MWS was absolutely filthy, the bolt was covered all over in crap as was the nozzle. But again it ran like a champ. I’ve had pistols with less dirt in them fail. 
 

the point of this post is double pronged, I’m curious to know if anyone else has had the buffer tube cap unscrew? 
 

but more importantly I’m super impressed with its reliability, I’ve owned this for a good while now and I’m still like a big kid every time I get to use it  
 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by AngryDad223

[Hypokondrikern]

@Jacket

 

Beautiful build, could you elaborate on the PDW stock? Any issues or something to consider before buying? 
 

 

@AngryDad223 thanks for letting us know. My end cap is actually a bit loose. Time for locktite or maybe a new stock ...

[Davegolf]

Just loctite permanent parts, GBBs are basically vibrators 😂

[ajumma]

I took apart and cleaned my trigger box which was completely filthy to try and improve the feel of the trigger. When I put it back together, I noticed the trigger reset has become significantly weaker, to the point where I can sometimes get the trigger to fail to reset when firing in semi by really slowly releasing it forwards after firing. Any ideas?

 

I’ve tried living everything generously, lubing very lightly, basically no lube at all, I’ve disassembled and reassembled the damn thing like 5 times to see if something was just not seared correctly and it hasn’t fixed the weak trigger reset. 

[Davegolf]

Have a good look for burrs or marring over on edges of the trigger parts

[SSPKali]

14 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Have a good look for burrs or marring over on edges of the trigger parts

^ this. See where the trigger bar has worn the inside of the trigger box (usually at diagonally opposide corners) Polish that side of the trigger with some really fine wet+dry to make sure it doesn't bind under spring pressure. 

 

The best lube is Graphite lock lube, it comes in a tiny thumb-sized spray bottle and is really slick, dry and doesn't attract dirt. £8 off Amazon and it will last for ages. Just make sure you wipe off the excess as it gets everywhere!

 

Failing that the WiiTech trigger parts are lovely and will improve the trigger but will cost £££££

[Hypokondrikern]

How often should you clean out the trigger box? 

[Davegolf]

I like the gun oil as it washes dirt out but on the flip side will attract light dust.

 

So on that basis depending on how dirty a day you’ve had 😂 flush it out at then of the day or remove it/clean/reinstall.

 

Same goes for all cleaning, depends how shitty you get the gun

You know if you drop a mag business end in the dirt then your an idiot if you stuff it in the gun 😆

[Jacket]

19 hours ago, Hypokondrikern said:

@Jacket

 

Beautiful build, could you elaborate on the PDW stock? Any issues or something to consider before buying? 
 

 

@AngryDad223 thanks for letting us know. My end cap is actually a bit loose. Time for locktite or maybe a new stock ...

 

The PDW stock was brilliant, all metal and very solid. Spring and buffer were much smaller than standard. Recoil felt more snappy. No feeding issues and bolt always locked back. I sort of want to do the same thing again but can’t find the stock for sale anywhere now

[Hypokondrikern]

@Davegolf Yeah, that's self explanatory but there is no sign of that the trigger box needs a little love? Maybe its time to open up that trigger box after all. Two years of ownership + the unknown use of the previous owner. 

@Jacket Lovely to hear. But you cant remember the brand? G&P?

-- -- -- 

I am trying to build a milsim kit for longer games ( I more or less only play at Berget once a year ) and I want to have the MWS ready for this task. I have the complete rifle + a spare BCG. The nozzle and nozzle spring are the only "fragile" parts that might pose a problem during such games which are covered by the extra BCG I have. But what would be the next backup investment? The lower seems pretty solid. Would a second upper be useful? In case of hop problems? which already seem pretty rare... let me know if there is something I'm missing