THE TM MWS thread

[SSPKali]

48 minutes ago, Hypokondrikern said:

@AlphaBear

 

could you tell me whether the brass rollers of the G&P bolt alters the sound or not? 
 

There are some videos of recent G&P rifles that produces a ridiculously satisfying sound. A crisp, high pitch metallic hiss. I hope it’s only the bolt end and not some dark magic I have missed or can’t acquire...

Not tried one of those G&P rollers but I wouldn't put much stock in audio from mobile phone videos, having posted and re-watched the vids I posted up there 🔝 there is a world of difference between human ears and phone mics

[Hypokondrikern]

2 minutes ago, SSPKali said:

Not tried one of those G&P rollers but I wouldn't put much stock in audio from mobile phone videos, having posted and re-watched the vids I posted up there 🔝 there is a world of difference between human ears and phone mics

I’m with you there. But if I could just make mine sound half as good as this one: 

 

I’d melt every time I push the trigger. 
 

( minus the radio and workshop sounds ) 

[jsmithski]

I had the same wish when I saw that video first time. I haven’t seen any other that has the same sound though so I bet it’s the mic juju.

[AlphaBear]

I should stick my G&P bolt in and see if I can do the same JuJu too? He’s probably lubed the bolt too I hazard to guess?

[jsmithski]

12 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

I should stick my G&P bolt in and see if I can do the same JuJu too? He’s probably lubed the bolt too I hazard to guess?

I lubed the crap out of mine and it still does not sound like that but it’s stock TM one.

[AlphaBear]

The stock TM bolt is pretty loud as a matter of fact. Also I reckon that chap has a G&P buffer which actually dampens the sound too and of course allows the lighter bolt to move back and forth faster and with less clang. 

Personally speaking, that’s just looks all wrong 😂

[Hypokondrikern]

5 hours ago, jsmithski said:

I had the same wish when I saw that video first time. I haven’t seen any other that has the same sound though so I bet it’s the mic juju.

This has more or less the same sound. Different rifle but G&P parts. ( same camera though haha. I.e same juju ) 
 

 

 

4 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

The stock TM bolt is pretty loud as a matter of fact. Also I reckon that chap has a G&P buffer which actually dampens the sound too and of course allows the lighter bolt to move back and forth faster and with less clang. 

Personally speaking, that’s just looks all wrong 😂

haha, I have seen his videos a few times. The shooting stance always puzzled me. But back to topic. I don’t think the buffer is needed as the standard is plastic and doesn’t give off any particular sound ( I have tried both aluminum and plastic buffers without hearing any major difference ). The Sixgun buffer ring reduced the spring sound for me but the metallic chiming from the bolt rollers in the videos provided is what I’d like to get. I guess I’ll have to take the leap and order one + maybe drill some flute holes in the buffer tube like the mysterious G&P version... 

[Wild Weasel]

Just ordered one of these for nicer looks and a spot of extra winter performance.

 

https://atrg.blog/2020/10/19/accessory-review-hao-geissele-rebcg-ecoline-for-marui-zet-mws-gbbr/

 

[AlphaBear]

16 minutes ago, Wild Weasel said:

Just ordered one of these for nicer looks and a spot of extra winter performance.

 

https://atrg.blog/2020/10/19/accessory-review-hao-geissele-rebcg-ecoline-for-marui-zet-mws-gbbr/

 

Which colour you going for? I was thinking getting one too but will wait for your feedback. It’s gonna be superior though we all know that. I assume you just drop in the Marui compression parts Nozzle etc and voila? 
 

I have a spare G&P nozzle set which I could chuck into one just to see how it performs. I’d probably get the tan colour myself just to differentiate the HAO bolt from the marui or the other spare G&P bolt 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Wild Weasel]

 

17 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Which colour you going for? I was thinking getting one too but will wait for your feedback. It’s gonna be superior though we all know that. I assume you just drop in the Marui compression parts Nozzle etc and voila? 

I have bought the geissele marked DDE colour and I'm planning on dropping my ag nozzle with oe piston rubber + mws ra tech npas in from the donor bolt and make up a summer/spare bolt incase of failure or warm weather.  Eventually is like to pair it to g&p roller and aluminium buffer set.

I keep an accurate record of FPS/joules consistency in a spreadsheet (attached) so hopefully I'll be able to report back something useful.

Please keep/modify/change the spreadsheet and if anyone notices any glaring errors or omissions please let me know.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lfmKJtQm-qGtE-EJLlXXixfkon5uT6nDdt7BJOOOb1o/edit?usp=drivesdk

[AlphaBear]

15 minutes ago, Wild Weasel said:

 

I have bought the geissele marked DDE colour and I'm planning on dropping my ag nozzle with oe piston rubber + mws ra tech npas in from the donor bolt and make up a summer/spare bolt incase of failure or warm weather.  Eventually is like to pair it to g&p roller and aluminium buffer set.

I keep an accurate record of FPS/joules consistency in a spreadsheet (attached) so hopefully I'll be able to report back something useful.

Please keep/modify/change the spreadsheet and if anyone notices any glaring errors or omissions please let me know.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lfmKJtQm-qGtE-EJLlXXixfkon5uT6nDdt7BJOOOb1o/edit?usp=drivesdk

Doesn’t the AG nozzle already have an adjustable valve? So why do you need the RA tech one? 
 

Also regarding the XL, what happened on the 7th Oct to give you the higher FPS readings? Also more interesting is the variance difference in all tests. I assume that’s the diff between a full mag and gas empty mag? 

[Wild Weasel]

8 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

Doesn’t the AG nozzle already have an adjustable valve? So why do you need the RA tech one? 
 

Also regarding the XL, what happened on the 7th Oct to give you the higher FPS readings? Also more interesting is the variance difference in all tests. I assume that’s the diff between a full mag and gas empty mag? 

The MPA 'valve' was sacked due to coming loose despite threadlock etc and I read on here at the time Ra tech was the way to go and it has been great and fits well in the ag nozzle which was swapped from the original after minor damage when the nozzle return spring finally snapped (5000 RDS I reckon).

As for the lower readings on the spread sheet that is because 1. I was shooting 0.30's and 2. I was playing some very close cqb trying out a possible new site and I wanted lower joules.

Skip to the 25th October I've wound it open again for field play and winter. Blue is propane, yellow is a test of Mapp gas (rothenberger).

 

(Edit - the diff' is the difference between max and min FPS over 10 shots fired)

 

As for the consistency initially I thought it was due to magazine age and type, mags 1,2 and 3 I believe are the older type 1 magazines 4,5 and 6 type 2's, all are shot in the same conditions at the same time on propane filled to the top (liquid gas spurting) with the same batch of bb's. all are green gas modified (cut 10mm past the valve) and I believe the greater variance is easily made up for with the larger capacity of gas which doesn't appear to affect accuracy at all giving me approximately 50mm groups. The mags are weighed prior to bb's to ensure their full, I believe if they were less full i,d get better consistency.

 

What would be cool if anyone interested next time they do a test they add their results to the XL sheet for comparison which could be a good benchmark for certain setups?

 

Cheers

 

P.s. I've changed the link to allow anyone to comment or edit - go wild folks, suggest copying file tabs for your own results, test conditions at the bottom.

 

P.P.S same rules as this forum exist - be nice people - constructive comments only please. Admins hope you ok with this? If not will upload bare one for copying?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lfmKJtQm-qGtE-EJLlXXixfkon5uT6nDdt7BJOOOb1o/edit?usp=drivesdk

Edited October 28, 2020 by Wild Weasel
Answer question properly

[Marroksteel]

Well jkarmy has had one of my large orders for a month now (all parts were in stock) but sent me my 3rd order of parts so im stuck without a bcg 3 mags and a few odds and ends. But anyway the G&P/Guns Modify parts showed up and are in and awaiting the real steel furniture.

[jsmithski]

It doesn’t look good. Is this a crack?

[AlphaBear]

3 hours ago, Wild Weasel said:

The MPA 'valve' was sacked due to coming loose despite threadlock etc and I read on here at the time Ra tech was the way to go and it has been great and fits well in the ag nozzle which was swapped from the original after minor damage when the nozzle return spring finally snapped (5000 RDS I reckon).

As for the lower readings on the spread sheet that is because 1. I was shooting 0.30's and 2. I was playing some very close cqb trying out a possible new site and I wanted lower joules.

Skip to the 25th October I've wound it open again for field play and winter. Blue is propane, yellow is a test of Mapp gas (rothenberger).

 

(Edit - the diff' is the difference between max and min FPS over 10 shots fired)

 

As for the consistency initially I thought it was due to magazine age and type, mags 1,2 and 3 I believe are the older type 1 magazines 4,5 and 6 type 2's, all are shot in the same conditions at the same time on propane filled to the top (liquid gas spurting) with the same batch of bb's. all are green gas modified (cut 10mm past the valve) and I believe the greater variance is easily made up for with the larger capacity of gas which doesn't appear to affect accuracy at all giving me approximately 50mm groups. The mags are weighed prior to bb's to ensure their full, I believe if they were less full i,d get better consistency.

 

What would be cool if anyone interested next time they do a test they add their results to the XL sheet for comparison which could be a good benchmark for certain setups?

 

Cheers

 

P.s. I've changed the link to allow anyone to comment or edit - go wild folks, suggest copying file tabs for your own results, test conditions at the bottom.

 

P.P.S same rules as this forum exist - be nice people - constructive comments only please. Admins hope you ok with this? If not will upload bare one for copying?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lfmKJtQm-qGtE-EJLlXXixfkon5uT6nDdt7BJOOOb1o/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

I like your scientific method of testing and recording the results... it's quite an eye opener and will for sure lend to much debate going forward... well it should

 

In terms of BB's which brand are you using? I assume there is no variation in the brand yeah?

 

Regarding the AG MPA nozzle, yeah that valve does look a tad suspect (blue loctite or not)... it definitely needs replacing as you said you used a RA tech valve. 

 

I've yet to do the green gas mod on any of my V2 mags... I believe the metal tubes inside are now glued on so have to be cut down... (thanks Marui)!

 

cheers

[PRIMEAirsoftTech]

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

 

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

 

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

 

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

 

Thanks guys.

[AlphaBear]

Vortex Strike Eagle added. Damn this optic is good. I mean real good. Plonked it on top of a Vortex 2” offset cantilever mount. Quality kit. Period. 
 

Now I can see what I’m shooting at. Whether I hit anything is another matter 😂

[Wild Weasel]

2 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

 

I like your scientific method of testing and recording the results... it's quite an eye opener and will for sure lend to much debate going forward... well it should

 

In terms of BB's which brand are you using? I assume there is no variation in the brand yeah?

 

Regarding the AG MPA nozzle, yeah that valve does look a tad suspect (blue loctite or not)... it definitely needs replacing as you said you used a RA tech valve. 

 

I've yet to do the green gas mod on any of my V2 mags... I believe the metal tubes inside are now glued on so have to be cut down... (thanks Marui)!

 

cheers

I use either BLS from camoraids or Geoffs' 0.30g from outdoor and tactical  as it the best compromise on a 350fps rifle between speed and terminal velocity/stability at distance (at least in my mind), I've been getting the most consistent results with the latter. I don't do a lot of testing with the bb's, I measure a few with a caliper and weigh ten on a scale to check manufacturing tolerances and that's it really.

 

With regards to green gas modifying magazines the silver syphon pipe is easily replaced if you decide to go back to original spec but I've only had a positive experience with the mod, I suppose you could modify one and compare it to another weighing before and after to compare how much gas you can cram in there? I removed the tube, removed the valve, stuffed it with tissue to prevent fragments from getting on threads and cut it down on a bench hook with a stop line and a kerf already cut in the hook fence to ensure a consistent cut over the batch.

[AlphaBear]

34 minutes ago, Wild Weasel said:

I use either BLS from camoraids or Geoffs' 0.30g from outdoor and tactical  as it the best compromise on a 350fps rifle between speed and terminal velocity/stability at distance (at least in my mind), I've been getting the most consistent results with the latter. I don't do a lot of testing with the bb's, I measure a few with a caliper and weigh ten on a scale to check manufacturing tolerances and that's it really.

 

With regards to green gas modifying magazines the silver syphon pipe is easily replaced if you decide to go back to original spec but I've only had a positive experience with the mod, I suppose you could modify one and compare it to another weighing before and after to compare how much gas you can cram in there? I removed the tube, removed the valve, stuffed it with tissue to prevent fragments from getting on threads and cut it down on a bench hook with a stop line and a kerf already cut in the hook fence to ensure a consistent cut over the batch.

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

 

[Marroksteel]

3 hours ago, jsmithski said:

It doesn’t look good. Is this a crack?

Just a piece of dust/fiber of some kind its all CNC'D then stone washed from the looks of it.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, PRIMEAirsoftTech said:

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

 

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

 

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

 

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

 

Thanks guys.

"Mushy" trigger 😑 I don't know how AEG guys expect a mechanical trigger system to respond more crisp than contact switches and electricity personally the trigger responses is quiet good its not going to be anything like the G&P, Guns Modify, Wii Tech aftermarket parts. If you want to talk about mushy trigger the Military Issue M4A1 is another story so its not going to be like a Geissele unit. 

4 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

 

I'd be willing to bet it's related to the polishing and shorting process.

[jsmithski]

3 hours ago, PRIMEAirsoftTech said:

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

 

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

 

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

 

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

 

Thanks guys.

disassemble the trigger box and lube all contact surfaces, it helps a bit. The most drag is on the small part here, I think it needs shimming as it scratches the unit body.

 

[Wild Weasel]

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

 

From what I've read BLS is the OEM for a lot of bb's, I'm not sure who makes Geoff's all I can tell you is that I'm getting a decent grouping at 20m when clamped into a stand  and noticeable accuracy at 40 - 60m.

[PRIMEAirsoftTech]

4 hours ago, Marroksteel said:

"Mushy" trigger 😑 I don't know how AEG guys expect a mechanical trigger system to respond more crisp than contact switches and electricity personally the trigger responses is quiet good its not going to be anything like the G&P, Guns Modify, Wii Tech aftermarket parts. If you want to talk about mushy trigger the Military Issue M4A1 is another story so its not going to be like a Geissele unit.

 

I'm perfectly happy with the trigger response, and I love the mechanical trigger having some mixed experience with real firearms. Its something I was really missing from AEGs.

 

There's just a little bit of a "mush" before the wall that goes away if you pull the trigger to the wall and release it without firing, and I was just wondering if there was a well-known way to smooth this out as it is a common complaint that people have when comparing the MWS trigger to say a GHK or VFC trigger.

 

That said, I'd take the MWS over the other options any day.

 

My question is more from a point of curiosity because I'm interested in learning more about GBBRs in general. Don't think I'll buy an AEG ever again, I love my MWS too much.

 

Apologies if my question seemed overly critical or unreasonable.

 

jsmithsky, thanks for the photo! I'll look into it.

[Marroksteel]

On 22/10/2020 at 08:49, AlphaBear said:

I haven’t unscrewed anything to see what the insides are like. To be honest I got it on a whim whilst waiting for my replacement marui nozzle to arrive. Now I’m thinking, I may as well get the G&P npas valve and shove it into this bolt so that I can swap to using higher power when needed. I’m on a standard length (CQB) barrel so either i get the 3.5 version of the npas or I just get a 4.5 and adjust the power accordingly and hope that version works with the CQB. Dunno yet. Any thoughts? 
 

Now going back to the screw part it’s holding the hammer part of the bolt or whatever it’s called. Unlike the marui which has that bit forged as part of the bolt the G&P has it as a separate bit. See the pins below and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

G&P  make two(2) different versions of this the long shown here is for barrels under 300mm the shorter for barrels longer than 300mm.

And as you can see here adjustments are possible and is a user replaceable part.

[Wild Weasel]

28 minutes ago, Marroksteel said:

G&P  make two(2) different versions of this the long shown here is for barrels under 300mm the shorter for barrels longer than 300mm.

And as you can see here adjustments are possible and is a user replaceable part.

Won't the nozzle return spring twist up if you rotate the thread or does the circlip just retain the back of the return spring and allow the hammer ramp to just pull through?

If so how does it work?