Doing our bit for the environment and the argument for bio BBs

[AndyDynamic]

Morning all,

 

Unless you've avoided any mainstream news for the past year, you'll no doubt know about the campaign to rid waste plastic from the Earth, with a number of large supermarkets converting plastic packaging to recyclable materials, manufacturers doing their best to reduce plastic use in components and so on.

 

Recently, my team have put together a bulk order for good quality biodegradable BBs, drawing a line saying we're not going to use normal plastic BBs anymore. Whilst they may take a long time to degrade in this country with our climate, they will at least eventually compost down instead of remaining around for hundreds of years. Understandably, woodland sites require their use (at least I hope they all do) but even some urban sites will eventually have to do something about the waste, especially those that are built upon.

 

Has anyone else taken this decision? 

 

Also what are your thoughts on retailers still marketing plastic BBs? Should they be the ones to get together and make the change? It could certainly head off yet more legislation and bad press being targeted at the sport. They last thing we need is the Daily Mail sticking their oar in with photos of piles of thousands of BBs in some grass.

 

Caveat - the retailer we have purchased the bulk order from does not make this public and we have negotiated it ourselves so I don't think I can advertise it here. Perhaps if the use of Bio BBs becomes more prevalent, the price will come down.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Rogerborg]

9 minutes ago, AndyDynamic said:

Understandably, woodland sites require their use

 

Do they?  Which ones?  I've never seen it mentioned.

 

 

9 minutes ago, AndyDynamic said:

Also what are your thoughts on retailers still marketing plastic BBs?

 

That any retailer who went full ecomental would be cutting their own throat. Even if UK clicks-and-mortar retailers all went full ecomental, you'd still have random eBay drop shippers undercutting them, or Eurosellers like TaiwanGun / GunFire who are already cheaper if you're amortising the postage costs in a large order.

 

 

9 minutes ago, AndyDynamic said:

It could certainly head off yet more legislation and bad press being targeted at the sport.

 

My experience is that bad press and bad legislation are rarely based on good facts.

 

Given that there's no standard for "biodegradable" BBs, what testing have you done to verify that what you're buying does actually biodegrade in sub-geological time to something non toxic?

[AndyDynamic]

Woodland sites don't enforce the Bio rule? I'm sure a couple I looked into did, unless I'm mistaken - RIFT being one example. How can they justify effectively littering a woodland with tons of plastic?

 

I get your point about costs, I don't think it'll be an overnight change but there's already been steps to ban micro beads in shower gels for example, so the change could come further up the chain with regards to manufacturers. Of course this might not affect ones based in China for example, but Japan seem to have been quite tough on Airsoft legislation with regards to power, so surely environmental concerns can't be far behind?

 

I'm afraid I don't have access to a lab to test the biodegradable time of the BBs  but I am relying on this being a popular manufacturer who has used the correct approach.

[Rogerborg]

13 minutes ago, AndyDynamic said:

Woodland sites don't enforce the Bio rule? I'm sure a couple I looked into did, unless I'm mistaken - RIFT being one example.

 

http://www.riftairsoft.com/content.php?35-game-rules doesn't mention it.

 

http://www.riftairsoft.com/content.php?32-What-is-Airsoft just says that "Biodegradable ammunition is available"

 

http://www.riftairsoft.com/content.php?87-retail doesn't mention biodegradable and at those prices, I'd expect that they're not.

 

 

Quote

How can they justify effectively littering a woodland with tons of plastic?

 

Same way we can justify paving over a woodland to build Shady Acres housing estate: because we want to.

 

Same way you can justify burning kilograms of fossil fuels just to get to and from a woodland to shoot it full of "biodegradable" BBs.

 

On that:

 

Quote

I'm afraid I don't have access to a lab to test the biodegradable time of the BBs

 

Do you have access to a pot of warm water?

 

If you can gently simmer them into soup, then they're degradable.  If you can pour the slurry on your roses (or drink it), then they're biodegradable.

 

I have no ideological objection to going bio, and would pay a small premium to do so.  So I'm genuinely interested in whether you've actually sourced something that meets those criteria, or whether you're salving your conscience by paying over the odds for regular BBs with some green dye in them.

 

If you don't want to think about this then I'd ponder whether you're interesting in doing good, or in feeling good.

 

[AndyDynamic]

Ok, counter point - would you be happy to walk into a local park and dump a load of plastic bottles, bags and lego pieces, then stamp them into the ground and leave? If the same analogy is given to an airsoft site, it runs for a number of years then the business stops trading. You're left with a patch of woodland littered with solid plastic. I guess we may as well build a car park over it in that case.

 

I didn't know I could test the BBs that way, so I shall certainly do just that once I've taken delivery and I will let you know my findings. The rounds we've sourced are from a very reputable retailer and also made by a very reputable name in the airsoft industry - so not just plastic ones painted green.

 

We are interested in doing good, and if this limits the impact of our hobby on the environment, even a little, then I think that can only be a good thing.

[clumpyedge]

I've not been to a single site that "ENFORCES" Bio BB's... I've even seen of the urban sites I've been to have to sweep up BB's afterwards to some extent, I've even been to one site where they used a leaf sucker to collect BB waste.

 

[AshOnSnow]

1 hour ago, AndyDynamic said:

Woodland sites don't enforce the Bio rule? I'm sure a couple I looked into did, unless I'm mistaken - RIFT being one example. How can they justify effectively littering a woodland with tons of plastic?

 

I get your point about costs, I don't think it'll be an overnight change but there's already been steps to ban micro beads in shower gels for example, so the change could come further up the chain with regards to manufacturers. Of course this might not affect ones based in China for example, but Japan seem to have been quite tough on Airsoft legislation with regards to power, so surely environmental concerns can't be far behind?

 

I'm afraid I don't have access to a lab to test the biodegradable time of the BBs  but I am relying on this being a popular manufacturer who has used the correct approach.

 

I play RIFT and there no enforcement of bio BBs at all (despite it being something I’ve suggested). They don’t even supply bio BBs in hire packages. Which is the one majorly disappointing thing about them.

[clumpyedge]

Playing devils advocate...

 

By this reasoning

• Air rifles should be made to use something that degrades
• Shotgun cartridge wads
• Shotgun clays
• Fishing equipment - floats etc
• Airsoft pyro - fuses/pin pulls
• Golf balls

The list could be almost endless of things that don't get cleared up from recreational sports. I really don't see anyone making much headway in making bio BBs mandated especially when they are confined to a relitively small area compared to commercial waste streams and things like landfill, fly tipping etc.

[Fumps]

I think its a fantastic idea. I play Woodland only & wondered if this ever was going to come into force. I for one totally agree with the idea

[Wo1f]

When they make some that aren’t completely sh*t and don’t loose accuracy after opening the bag a few times, then maybe I’ll buy some. My gas rifles don’t like them. 

 

Youre not making a blind bit of difference to the environment at an individual level. The 8 largest ships in the world do more damage to the environment than every car on the planet combined per year. Plastic is dumped into the oceans by the tonne by companies. Until they all stop, I’m going to continue to wheelie my way to the game site and shoot people with my propane powered, plastic death machine. 

[clumpyedge]

We better all start cycling to games as well...

[Rogerborg]

13 minutes ago, Fumps said:

I think its a fantastic idea. I play Woodland only & wondered if this ever was going to come into force. I for one totally agree with the idea

 

What brand of biodegradable BBs would you recommend and why?

[Andyraven]

I have never seen a UK site enforce bio BB's. To enforce this rule ALL sites would need to do it. I know some States in the US only allow bios.

It would also make the site that enforces the rule to lower the cost of there Bios so all players that turn up could buy them.

Also by doing that some low profit margin sites might struggle to pay for the land they rent. 

 

Most Airsoft site are unused good for nothing pieces of land anyway. And the way this country is going I'm sure most will be sold for housing in the near future.

Plus lets face it do we really need more restrictions on a hobby that has already been picked apart by the powers that be.

 

I do think Bio BB's are the way forward. And I use bios myself when i can get them "cheap".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Duff]

Guess we better stop building RIF's from Polymer then, or using cars to get to events.

[jcheeseright]

Spartan Airsoft near Bristol are bio only, they sell green devil BBs on site at pretty much cost price and they’re the only BB you’re allowed to use there.  Great idea if you ask me. 

[jcheeseright]

1 minute ago, Duff said:

Guess we better stop building RIF's from Polymer then, or using cars to get to events.

 

Do you leave hundreds of little RIFs in the ground every time you play? Or do you take your gun home and re-use it over and over again? 

[clumpyedge]

Just now, jcheeseright said:

Spartan Airsoft near Bristol are bio only, they sell green devil BBs on site at pretty much cost price and they’re the only BB you’re allowed to use there.  Great idea if you ask me. 

 

Not saying its not a good idea... cant see it ever being enforced other than if all site owners/land owners decided thats the way they want/have to go

[Druid799]

Hard target near Bridgend South Wales enforce a bio only rule . I’d be more than happy to switch , if they bring out an affordable and reliable bio BB in the weights I want .

[Rogerborg]

15 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

green devil BBs

 

Hmm, they seem vaguely credible.  Any recommendations for a retailer?

[Guest]

I only ever use bio bb’s, it’s a requirement at MPA

[Rogerborg]

3 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

I only ever use bio bb’s, it’s a requirement at MPA

 

Hmm, they mandate biodegradable, but sell non-biodegradable as well.

 

I'm struggling to find a Green Devil retailer, or any indication of cost.

[Gepard]

I think we should all do a little bit to help the environment. If people had started 50 years ago then we wouldn't be where we are at today going "oh sh*t, maybe we should do something about all this waste". 

 

No, using biodegradable BBs isn't going to save the world on it's own, but doing what we can where we can is certainly a step in the right direction. If we continue to say to ourselves "oh this won't change anything so I can't be arsed" then it only adds to the problem.

[Sako]

1 hour ago, clumpyedge said:

 

Not saying its not a good idea... cant see it ever being enforced other than if all site owners/land owners decided thats the way they want/have to go

 

My local woodland site has now made it a ‘biodegradable only’ site recently, at the land owners request.

[AndyDynamic]

1 hour ago, Duff said:

https://www.airsoft-legends.nl/en/ammo-supplies/bio-tracer-bbs/

 

The above site seems pretty good, they even do bio tracer bb's.

 

Great examples there, Valken, G&G, Madbull - these are big names producing high quality, biodegradable rounds. Even tracer ones too. 

 

According to a listing on Patrol Base, they're tested by TUV Rheinland - https://www.tuv.com/united-kingdom/en/ - and looking at the table, 15 degrees temperature (roughly normal British summer) under trash covering like leaves, they do degrade over 2 years. That's a while but is not comparable with plastic taking hundreds of years.

[Fumps]

To be honest when I first found out about Airsoft I automatically assumed the BB's were going to be biodegradable, it took me a silly amount of time to notice that they were not.

 

Although most land that Airsoft events happen on are considered scrub land etc the argument can be made for the land Over time to become seen as contaminated & the value of the land could be drastically reduced due to this, In effect the land owner could be loosing money by allowing events to take place on the site. Which could be disastrous for the hobby. So I can see a clear argument for Bio BB's to become the norm in the not too distant future.

A 50 acre section of land behind my employers site came up for sale & my company was keen to buy but the land was found to be contaminated by waste plastics & industrial waste, so we walked. Another company purchased the site at a huge knockdown price because of it. 

 

The contamination turned out to be nothing more than just waste plastics in the earth. but the landowner took a huge hit on price either way.