Green Gas remote line?

[Aengus]

 

Browsing youtube and saw this. Looks really interesting but doesn't unfortunately the video doesn't answer any of my questions. Thoughts everyone?

[Guest]

What questions do I you have? Looks fairly interesting

[Aengus]

Mainly about cooldown and shots/canister.

[Shizbazki]

You will still have cool down no matter what as you still have a gas that is under pressure and is expanding per shot, also because that gas (Propane mixed with silicone) is less dense than air and volatile (ie rapid evaporates in air). 

 

However the cool down wont be in the gun or magazine as it traditionally is as that is where we normally put the gas but it will cool down in the green gas tank as you have essentially move the cool down effect away from the gun.

 

AFAIK only HPA doesn't suffer cool down effect because although it is air under pressure, once it has expanded to its normal volume its no less or more dense than the air around it.

 

Personally I still think HPA is still better than this as it is very high pressure air finely regulated by the 2nd stage regulator, also there is no regulator on that, essentially it is an open valve and QD valve on each end.

 

[Tiercel]

Excactly the same problems as HPA, in that it makes you look like a ghostbuster/paintballer with your hosepipe and gas/air tank backpack Ruins the immersion for me, no thanks. I also imagine its hella expensive and youll burn through a tonne of gas, and it makes changing mag a pain in the ass too.

[snuff]

Looks good but the real test as always will be on the field..I always got knotted up with hoses,PITA IMHO especially if you like to swap firing hands.

[L3wisD]

49 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

Excactly the same problems as HPA, in that it makes you look like a ghostbuster

 

*AHEM*

 

 

Not everyone plays Airsoft as a Super Army Soldier Tactical Operator all the time 

 

[proffrink]

I would also state that the vast majority of people who use that an excuse to not use HPA or - in this case - green gas that needs a remote line, have never actually tried it. Sure, you notice the line for the first couple of hours, but most people don't even realise it's there at all after that. And like you say, being worried about looking like a scuba diver when we're playing cops and robbers in the forest with toy guns is a hilarious notion.

 

If you get the opportunity for HPA, just ask a friend and see what it's like for a game. More often than not your excuse for not having it will switch from that to it being kinda prohibitively expensive for newcomers (which is a reasonable concern as a lot of it is overpriced and the upfront cost is really inflated).

 

That said, the coiled hoses that this and things like the Tippmann use are a bit different as the memory of the coiled plastic means it's constantly pulling against you when it's unwound so it's a regular reminder that there's a line hanging from your gun. That's why I don't like the coiled ones at least, but I've only used the Mancraft pistol one so perhaps the full sized ones are fine (though I'd wager if anything they're worse).

[Marc.RG1]

Not my kind of thing this, it's just another thing that takes away realism. And dam a gas can will not least long lol, and your have to put a sticker on your back saying tank on board don't shoot here lol.. But yeah just like hpa I'm not a fan of adding tubes to my guns I would rather have to refil. 

ATB Marc 

[Tommikka]

I’m not familiar with green gas in this way, but CO2 on a remote line fully expands and feeds in a gaseous state

 

In a cylinder CO2 will go into a liquid state with some gas at top and liquid at the bottom, on release it cools down and can fall to liquid with rapid fire.  A remote line gives extra capacity allowing it to ‘settle’ and return to gas by the end of the line.

 

I believe/think green gas will act in a similar manner. If it cools down on release from the bottle it will expand as it progresses.

 

HPA (mostly*) stays in its gaseous state, and for all intents and purposes is a clean pressurised gas at the appropriate regulated pressures

For airsoft use HPA is regulated down to a sufficiently low pressure to not have a cooldown as it gets to the working parts (still high pressure as far as safety is concerned, but much lower than the cylinders pressure and it’s primary regulator output)

 

* on a major cylinder/regulator failure then you can get frosting.

But I’m only aware of 2 or 3 air system incidents on that scale over 10 years ago, and was present when a team mate had an accident resulting in slamming a cylinder on concrete (as well as his spine) which caused a hairline leak through the threads and frosting  of the regulator / cylinder neck

 

 

 

I’m not a fan of using a remote line, it means either a coiled line which has an amount of pull as mentioned above.  It can tug back when stretched and have an affect on how you hold & move the gun

With a straight remote line you need a long line to have the ability to move the gun around which means a big loop of hose to get tangled up

 

With pistols as primaries I have had numerous configurations, and with certain pistols haven’t liked the situation if the co2 is in a 12 gram seperate from the magazine. This meant I could get in the situation of having to change co2 at the worst time.

With that pistol I went to remote line meaning I could never run out of air/gas in a game, and also went for mounting an air cylinder to the pistol - totally off balance but great fun

I solved the issue with twin pistols, if I’m caught short on one pistol then I’ve another in my other hand

 

In general though a remote line is personal taste

But I’m also with Marc, what’s the situation with a disposable green gas cylinder and the potential of it getting shot and battered about when playing or if you fall on the bottle?

Bearing in mind it’s in a disposable aerosol as opposed to a steel/aluminium/fibre wrapped reusable compressed gas cylinder or even compared to a thick walled disposable 12gram co2 cylinder

 

[proffrink]

I don't disagree that remote lines are a personal taste, only that judgement really can't be passed until one tries it. I was of the same opinion for years too before one winter I got sick of having cooldown issues and bought some HPA stuff in the spring.

 

But yeh, the line will allow that additional 'expansion chamber' that's so key for GBBRs, so it has got that going for it. I guess putting aside the issue of a line, I'd argue that going the extra bit and buying a proper HPA ring at that point is probably a better long-term solution, but this might serve a niche where people don't want to spend too much. Then again, Mancraft do a much nicer CO2 regulator that runs off bulbs with a very small lanyard-like line which I feel would be far more suited to most if this is just for pistol use (or even the careful GBBR user who isn't spamming too much).

[Shizbazki]

3 hours ago, Tiercel said:

Excactly the same problems as HPA, in that it makes you look like a ghostbuster/paintballer with your hosepipe and gas/air tank backpack Ruins the immersion for me, no thanks. I also imagine its hella expensive and youll burn through a tonne of gas, and it makes changing mag a pain in the ass too.

 

Whats wrong with the hose?

I have come across many people who don't like HPA based solely on the line (what you call the hosepipe) yet run those 3 point slings or any sling to be precise. On my Polarstar M4 the line isn't removed until just before i enter the safe zone or need to drop my gun at which point the line is the easier of the two to remove. I have fed my line through my sling so they almost look like one piece.

 

Also its hella expensive running green gas anyways, £10 to £15 per can which contains about 1 to 1.5 litres of pressurised propane of around 800PSI or you can get 12 litres of 4500PSI air for less than £10, you do the math, greater volume of air, compressed more than x5 the amount for less money.

 

Yes mag changes may be longer but with some practice it can be made faster, i normally leave the mag changes between re spawns.

 

Not to mention the consistency of HPA far outstrips green gas.

[Sako]

Agree with Proffrink & Shizbazki, as long as you don’t run a coiled line then it’s no worse than an AEG with a sling attached...

 

...just more sound and recoil (read as realism in comparison to AEG)

[Guest scalawag]

I remember in the late 80's early 90's having a non blow back mac 10 that fed directly from a bottle of gas.  It functioned perfectly no cool down at the gun, but the gas bottle would get quite cold.  

The problem back then was getting the gas as I recall.  Not much internet shopping back then, and limited stocks at local bricks and mortar shops.

[Esoterick]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:57 PM, Shizbazki said:

 

Whats wrong with the hose?

I have come across many people who don't like HPA based solely on the line (what you call the hosepipe) yet run those 3 point slings or any sling to be precise. On my Polarstar M4 the line isn't removed until just before i enter the safe zone or need to drop my gun at which point the line is the easier of the two to remove. I have fed my line through my sling so they almost look like one piece.

 

 

As someone that gets unreasonably bothered by slings restricting my movement I doubt I could run a HPA line. That said I remove anything from my loadouts if it causes me any clearance issues at all, it's why I won't keep a torch on my rifles so I may be a bit of an outlier.

 

Do HPA guns have any more recoil than GBBRs? As I have yet to come across a GBBR that actually has much recoil despite what the owner of the gun says.

[Sako]

12 minutes ago, Esoterick said:

 

As someone that gets unreasonably bothered by slings restricting my movement I doubt I could run a HPA line. That said I remove anything from my loadouts if it causes me any clearance issues at all, it's why I won't keep a torch on my rifles so I may be a bit of an outlier.

 

Do HPA guns have any more recoil than GBBRs? As I have yet to come across a GBBR that actually has much recoil despite what the owner of the gun says.

 

I definitely think HPA won’t be for you in that case, although it’s not restrictive or any more annoying than a sling, the fact you’re not fond of even slings would suggest you’ll just get annoyed by it.

 

certain HPA set ups can have considerable recoil, a Tippman M4 with heavy bolt is extremely similar to that of a centerfire .22 variant (most like a .222 realistically, but slower)

[Adolf Hamster]

in terms of immersion it's no worse than a coiled lanyard, however changing mags is gonna be a problem

 

plus it's a fix for a problem that's already been solved- co2, and green gas cooldown isn't that bad (depending on the pistol ofc)

 

 

[Guest]

What you lot want is a remote feed magazine and HPA set 

 

 

[Careless]

my thoughts, you might aswell not bother , a fully charged gas mag will fire every single bb in that mag  ,  for the sake of re charging it with gas when you reload its not worth it , your probably just change to a spare mag thats fully gas charged anyway. unless you want to run a hi cap modified drum mag this is totally pointless,, also the moment you disconnect the line from the mag , there is no valve on the mag, only on the line to the bottle , which means the mags reservoir gets dumped .... so your also wasting mags worth of gas every time you disconnect it,, great!