ACOGS

[team flex]

I have A few questions about acogs. I saw this acog and decided I really liked it, and after skirmishing when I upgrade I think I might get one. http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/4x32-ACOG-With-Doctor-Sight-CL1_0159BK.html

 

1.I was wondering, how does it work with the fibres, and how easy are the to maintain?

2. How useful is 4x magnifier on the field, and how much does the height of the eotech on the top effect shooting and accuracy?

3. How hard is it to zero it in, and what do you have to do.

4. Who exactly makes this, and I'm guessing its a clone, so why is it so much money.

5. Is the build quality good?

6. How easy is it to break? do proairsoftsupplies mess you around with the warranty.

7. I believe the green fibre version is £30 more expensive, does green make a difference over red, or is it just personal preference?

 

Sorry for so many questions, and thanks for the replies/help/kindness

 

 

 

Flex

 

[team flex]

actually, would that be better or just using this http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Eotech-Flip-to-Side-Magnifier-CL1_0002.html

and flip the sight over if you come into close range combat?

[ak2m4]

I've had a few of the ACOG fibre's in stock in the past, they are really neat in regards to not needing any batteries, there's nothing to maintain, just work out of the box. I used a 4x for a while but found it a pain, would rather have a 1x but it's all down to the type of style you play.

 

Build quality is pretty decent for a clone (well the ones I've had in), some come with trades some don't, made by loads of difference factories all over the place I would guess. £99 is a tad high yes.

 

Hope that helps a little.

[BrightCandle]

1. No batteries is nice I guess. Not so good in low light conditions obviously.

2. Not very, it can be useful for spotting but by and large most of the ranges airsoft is played at you don't need magnification to accurately acquire targets and shoot them.

3. Well zeroing is going to be interesting. Presumably you will want to zero the red dot for the closer combat and then zero the 4x for different ranges. Best way to learn how to do this is to watch a video on how to zero a scope on youtube. In essence all you do is shoot at a known point and then adjust the scope until the rounds land where you are aiming. With this scope you'll need to do this for each of the parts of it, and definitely at different ranges and ideally quite long ranges.

 

 

No idea on the rest.

[THE FNG]

I used a flip to side magnifier with and eotech holo sight for a short while but I found that the flip to side magnifier was a little useless...but that was for cqb. I did use it on occasion during a woodland skirmish a few months ago.

 

Might I recommend a normal acog without the red dot on top, then put offset iron sights on the rifle for close range engagements? I find they are really useful.

It all falls down to personal preference though really and the type of game you play. I'm more into cqb/fibua atm and my loadouts are so much more different than when I was playing woodland all of the time.

 

Also, if you are worried about the optics getting shot out, I'd recommend a bb shield of some description. They sit in front of the sights and stop any bb's hitting the sight. They don't obscure vision and are fairly cheap.

[Airsoft-Ed]

£99 for that is exceptionally good, I don't what makes you think it's expensive. Most other clones with those features are £130 minimum and the real steel optics they're copying come in at around the £2k mark.

The fibre optic cable means that the ACOG reticle is illuminated by light shining on it, it's not a battery so it never runs out, but if you're in a dark place there's no illumination, so it's a bit useless really. Nice feature though, and realistic to boot.

4x optics aren't a lot of use in airsoft, I run an ACOG more or less identical to this and I find myself using the Docter sight on the top 99% of the time, I only use the ACOG if I think my shots are hitting but I'm not getting any feedback from the target, or if I'm unsure whether a log is a person's head or not. So it's good for more precise shooting at longer ranges, helps see your shots from a little further away, and it's good for scouting areas out with a slightly better view.

Zeroing optics is easy, fire a few shots, then look at the adjustment dials. If you shots are going to the right, turn the dial to the left, if your shots are going high, turn the dial down. Keep doing it until you're on target. Same applies to both the red dot and the ACOG.
I've actually zeroed both optics on mine to the same point, since I use the red dot for pretty much all targets at all ranges anyway, as I said.

My guess is that it's an ACM (all china made) clone, branded ones are more expensive. But with airsoft optics there's not a lot of difference really, in fact in a handful of instances I've had better experiences with unbranded clones, than branded ones.

The build quality will be the same as all the other equivalent optics on the market. They're generally the same product, just sold under different names from different places.

You won't be breaking it unless you fire into it from point blank range, or smash it with a hammer. I've had mine for over 2 years and it's taken direct hits, hard knocks and all sorts. Got a dent in the top of the red dot's frame and that's about all you can see to tell it's been abused.

ProAirsoftSupplies are a very respectable shop, I know their tech and he's a good guy. No worries with buying from them.

Green fibre just means the ACOG will light up green instead of red. No difference to anything else at all. Not sure why the price is higher.

[LegoJon]

(Not meaning to spam post but)

Thanks @ Airsoft-Ed I found that a very informative response.

[team flex]

agree with lego jon there. I played my first skirmish yesterday, and a lot of the time I was thinking an acog would help so much, it was quite hard to see through the woodland but light was good. I was thinking of saving up for a TM scar H (wouldn't be for a long time and I can always change my mind as I get more experience) would it be worth it for that gun?

[Lozart]

Just to be pedantic for a while - terminology. The sight on top of the ACOG is not an EOTech, it's a Docter (note the spelling) sight. EOTech and Docter are brands that make sights that have have become known by the brand rather than what type of sight they actually are (like all Hoovers are vacuum cleaners but not all vacuum cleaners are Hoovers if you see what I mean).

Docter: http://www.docter-germany.de/en/products/cat/cat/reflex-sights.html

EOTech http://www.eotechinc.com/

 

So anyway - the sight in question; if you expect to play a lot of woodland/outdoor games then I can see how a bit of magnification would come in handy and the Docter Reflex on top would give you a handy dot for close range work. However you could save a bit of money and get an ACOG with built in iron sights instead that would be just as effective (like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACOG-4X32-Special-Forces-Scope-Illuminated-Cross-Hair-/180946284312?pt=UK_SportingGoods_Hunting_ShootingSports_ET&hash=item2a213d2f18 )

 

Alternatively you could look at a SpectreDR type sight that has variable zoom (switchable from x1 to x4). The other thing to take into account is eye relief (something you should know about from your CCF shooting I guess). The Spectre sights have a longer eye relief which has obvious advantages when trying to sight with face protection on!

[Airsoft_Mr B]

I was going to say the same as Ed. Real ACOGs are at least £1,500-£2,000 each. Considering you have a Docter on there as well it's even better for the price. A lot of people say magnified optics aren't very useful (I suppose, unless you're a sniper) but if you have a Docter on there for CQC I would say it's a good choice.

[Airsoft-Ed]

However you could save a bit of money and get an ACOG with built in iron sights instead that would be just as effective

Lol no. (My turn for the pedantry)

 

Those irons you get on top of ACOGs are not useable sights in the slightest, suggesting they can be used to the same degree of effectiveness as a Docter sight isn't that far removed from comparing a top of the line Schmidt and Bender... to not actually having any sights at all.

 

They're that useless.

 

The only reason I would look at those iron sights in a positive light, is if I was buying an ACOG with the intention of adding my own micro red dot of some description, either a Docter or an RMR, and I wanted to buy a sight with the mounting lugs to put the red dot bracket onto. Since generally, those irons can be removed.

 

But yeah, they never line up properly, and the sight radius is so short that even if they were lined up right, they'd still be useless anyway. They're also not adjustable.

 

Additionally, airsoft Spectres don't really have any eye relief differences over ACOGs, at least in terms of clone airsoft versions. But I would imagine the 1-4x variable zoom version would have much better eye relief with the 1x zoom setting, otherwise it just seems fairly useless - the biggest advantage of dot sights is that they don't have eye relief, so if you still had to get your head within an inch or two to use the 1x zoom feature... Well, what's the point?

 

Personally I'd still rather have the fixed 4x version with a Docter on top of it though, I've heard that the variable zoom versions aren't all that great, and I think that I would personally find flipping between the two settings on the variable version a bit of a pain, it'd be far easier to just switch to a different optic on top of the Spectre, since then you wouldn't have to take any hands off the gun.

 

Though I have no personal experience to back that up with, it might work great and what I've read about the variable zoom versions being worse might just be people being overly picky or something.

 

Your cheapest option (if you definitely want a zoom optic) would be to buy a standalone ACOG, without any kind of back up sights, illumination or any other funky stuff with it, perhaps with a fake non-functional fibre optic strip, (or indeed just buy the one Lozart linked, though that's moronically expensive for what it is) - which you can get for around the £60 mark - then you can use the zoom of the ACOG for longer range targeting, or if you can't see your shots. Then for all other circumstances, just look down the side of your barrel and walk shots on target.

 

Actually, if you just want the functionality of a scope and you don't really care what it looks like, you could get a sniper style air rifle scope for even less than that, which will probably have anything up to 9 or 10x variable zoom. They just don't look as funky as clone optics.

[Lozart]

Lol no. (My turn for the pedantry)

 

Those irons you get on top of ACOGs are not useable sights in the slightest, suggesting they can be used to the same degree of effectiveness as a Docter sight isn't that far removed from comparing a top of the line Schmidt and Bender... to not actually having any sights at all.

 

They're that useless.

 

 

 

If we were talking about real hardware then yes, I'd agree with you, but seeing as we're talking about sub £100 copies of sights that cost in excess of £1500 I very much doubt that the iron sights moulded onto a cheap ACOG copy would be significantly worse than the Docter sight mounted on the one the OP linked to. I have no doubt that an ACTUAL Docter sight would be far superior but they cost more than the ACOG being discussed.

 

As for the eye relief thing - regardless of the cost of the sight the physics remains the same. The Spectre has a larger diameter final lens so it must have better eye relief even at 4x magnification. Of course if you can demonstrate to me why not then I'd be happy to hear.

[Airsoft-Ed]

Did you just post the quote on purpose?

I realised after reading it again that it looks like it could be meant as a personal dig, that's not the case, I was just playfully continuing the pedantry theme lol.

[Lozart]

Did you just post the quote on purpose?

 

I realised after reading it again that it looks like it could be meant as a personal dig, that's not the case, I was just playfully continuing the pedantry theme lol.

 

No it was finger trouble, I've not had coffee yet.

[Airsoft-Ed]

I'm guessing you haven't used a clone Docter sight then? They're as effective as any other dot sight, they can be adjusted and they're no less precise either. They're not just pieces of clear plastic with a red ink plodge in the middle, they're actual holographic style sights and sell individually for between £30 and £80.

Those iron sights on the other hand, are fixed and barely 6 inches apart and don't sell individually as far as I know - because they're useless. There's not a chance in hell of them being useable.

I don't have a scientific source for saying that the eye relief on the Spectres is no better than ACOGs, but if you use both then you'll see what I mean.

In fact, it's quite possible that the internal structure, organisation and size of the lenses etc. of both ACOGs and Spectres are identical with regard to the airsoft clones, the Spectres are just in a chunkier shell. The front and back lenses aren't actually lenses, they aren't part of what provides the magnification, they're just like shields for the actual internal gubbins, which in ACOGs at least, can be removed in a lump by taking the rear of the sight off.

Conversely, never do that. The sight will fog slightly if moisture gets inside it, and any tiny bits of fluff or finger prints that you get on the internal lenses will be clear as day when you look through the sight.

...And they're the biggest cock in the universe to get back together.

[Lozart]

I shall bow to your clearly more extensive knowledge (no sarcasm).

 

I've not used a clone Docter but I find all clone red dot sights to be too bright for my personal preference (I usually only play CQB so a lot is in the dark and most dot sights are set up to be "bright enough for use in the day"). Also most engagements are close enough to see what you're shooting at pretty clearly (unless it's dark) so anything other than iron sights is (for me at least) additional weight at best and at worst pointless frippery.

 

All that being said, if you can recommend me a decent clone sight (EOTech/red dot whatever) that can actually dim enough tonot just flare out in the dark then I'll be very grateful!

[Airsoft-Ed]

I know what you mean about them being too bright.

The Docter I have on top of my ACOG has a very good light sensor for effective auto-brightness changes, in total darkness it turns off though. That's actually how you turn it off, cover the sensor up with the sight cover.

But it's essentially always at the dimmest it can be for you to still see it clearly, unless it's too dark to be on. Additionally, because the light emitter is so incredibly tiny, it doesn't give you away as much as the huge ones EOTechs use, for example.

I have this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reflex-Auto-Brightness-Mini-Red-Dot-Sight-Rifle-Scope-20mm-Rail-Docter-UK-00055-/181327666184?_trksid=p2054897.l5658

But I managed to get it as a package with an ACOG for £100 from RSOV.

[jcheeseright]

I've found that the eye relief on my WE Spectre replica is excellent, far better than any clone ACOG I've ever used. I can get a good sight picture with my face 4" back from the sight no problem, they really are much better than the standard TA01 ACOG replicas you can pick up.

 

That said, I use the magnified optic much like Ed does, spotting at long distances and occasionally to shoot a target which is a long way away. Outside of that the docter sight on top is my go-to.

[Airsoft-Ed]

Perhaps the Spectre I used was one of the shoddier copies then.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

Regardless of what is decided up above, the point needs to be hit home that simply adding an ACOG will NOT make you a better marksman. You can have all the zoom you want and the most expensive kit and still miss a a man at 30 ft.

 

Flex, you haven't been playing long, concentrate on learning to use your iron sights effectively, concentrate on learning to control your trigger and concentrate on learning to aim before firing, learn to conserve ammo, and learn to play as a team. There are so many things more important in airsoft than a good optic.

[Lozart]

Regardless of what is decided up above, the point needs to be hit home that simply adding an ACOG will NOT make you a better marksman. You can have all the zoom you want and the most expensive kit and still miss a a man at 30 ft.

 

Flex, you haven't been playing long, concentrate on learning to use your iron sights effectively, concentrate on learning to control your trigger and concentrate on learning to aim before firing, learn to conserve ammo, and learn to play as a team. There are so many things more important in airsoft than a good optic.

 

This.

 

I'm sure we've all been guilty of beginners enthusiasm though. I certainly remember trying to find the perfect ACOG to match my BF3 loadout! Thing is that sights are less relevant to your accuracy than just learning how your gun behaves and how to actually shoot at stuff properly. But yes, best advice to Flex? Spend the money on mags and learn how to use iron sights effectively. Once the sights become a limiting factor THEN look at adding magnification.

[team flex]

ok thanks for the help. As I said it won't be for some time, and I will learn a lot more with the many skirmishes to come.