What is a Milsim

[Baz JJ]

I saw this question in another post and it made me wonder how many AFUK members aren't familiar with this type of game.

 

Also, I find that many people have misconceptions.

 

Wikipedia says

 

QUOTE

 

MilSim is an abbreviation of military simulation, and refers to military simulations conducted by civilians for entertainment purposes.

 

MilSim most often falls into two different categories: reenactment and simulation. Reenactments focus on a particular event in history and aim to provide the most accurate representation of the time period, events, and outcomes of the historical event. Simulation, however, may only focus on a particular time period and representation of which course a particular situation may have taken in history. In most cases a simulation event includes fictitious characters, groups, and political situations.

 

UNQUOTE

 

Of course, there is also Filmsim and people often mix the two terms. Its very hard to find a binding definition anywhere.

 

In my experience, there are a lot of shades of grey with milsimming. Extremes are those companies which treat players as real soldiers - exact loadouts are required for the era, players have to sleep rough for 36 hours (or not at all); some even have ranks, basic training and use saluting. At the other end of the spectrum is something one level away from a skirmish - a day theme where there is some ongoing connection between the games even though they have breaks between games and still use a safe zone.

 

I guess the message is that there is no one such thing as a milsim - instead, lots of different flavours.

 

If it interests you as an alternative to skirmishing, my advice would be to read the small print and understand what flavour you're buying !

[Lord_Metile]

TBH, army ranks and lack of sleeping sounds horrible. Airsoft is about having fun.

[Qlimax]

Milsim are different depending where you playing it at but basically they are long, role based games with ammo limits and no breaks.

[Baz JJ]

Personally I agree and its not my thing, but there are lots of hardened simmers who do just that and go back for more.

 

I think the attraction of some flavour of milsim is the camaraderie of working in a team against a common enemy, using either real steel or restricted ammo limits and having to think your way out of problems using strategy and tactics - not just blatting away.

 

Little generic things like using loadouts to identify each other rather than armbands, greater use of radios and playing with cool toys like big pyros, mortars and props make milsims a little more interesting IMHO.

 

In terms of length, some claiming to be milsim are less than an hour before they have a break. Some are 8 hours, some go overnight and some are 24/36 hours.

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Been to several milsims and never had any of the rank stuff. All we had were Section commanders who mainly handled comms since they had long range radios. How tired you are is entirely up to you. Nobody is really stopping you from buggering off to your tent for some sleep. All milsims depend on who are hosting and of course the people playing- people I've played with generally take it lightheartedly and have some fun but do stick to objectives and keep up the overall flow of the game.

[Baz JJ]

Theres one not far from me that keep themselves pretty low key on the net and is largely word of mouth. They have a selection board and promotions. You work your way up the ranks - it struck me as a bit creepy so I gave it a wide berth.

[CaptainSwoop]

Saluting and Ranks?? no thanks.

[Airsoft_Mr B]

Whilst I think taking airsoft to the extreme in MilSim games can be pretty over the top. That said, a normal skirmish would not give you the opportunity to do night games for example.

From what I know a lot of the more serious games are the ones over multiple days and in unique places such as FIBUA facilities.

 

Ranks and saluting though? Really? That is very sad.

[CaptainSwoop]

It's why I could never bring myself to join a Re-enactors group. They are big on ranks and 'working your way up' and promotions and kit inspection.

[jcheeseright]

Most serious milsim in the uk at the moment is Tier 1, no saluting or ranks there, same for stirling.

[Yuriski]

In my opinion, if there is an element of command, ranks should be in place somehow. I mean, who's better to lead a group of people: an experienced skirmisher or a newbie?

 

Saluting I do not agree with though. It should be kept solely in the armed forces, emergency services and cadet corps, not for re-enactments or MilSims.

[Black Death]

I can see why peeps enjoy Milsim and why others don't. I keep saying I will play a game one day but I think if I'm honest I may just annoy my friends/team mates and not be invited again.

No access to my Facebook, no bubble bath, no sex before bed, ammo limited to a handful of bbs, sporadic fighting and having to take orders.... Sounds like hell to me. I think you'd literally have to pay me to do it as it would feel like an actual shift lol

That said I've got a shed load of respect for the guys that do it! Seriously you must have serious discipline and dedication. My hat goes of to you

[Baz JJ]

You can still access Facebook - only joking..

 

Thats what I mean - a lot of misnomers about milsims.

 

I dont like sleeping in a battlefield where you are allowed to sleep in your tent, but you may get attacked at any time.

 

Sporadic fighting, yes, but you have to stalk and hunt and the ambushes are good. A handful of BBs - 600 in mid cap mags so you have to change mags when fighting, More ammo back at base or in hidden arms caches. Calling in air support or a mortar attack. Hunting snipers as a squad.

 

You dont really get a chance to try these things in a normal skirmish.

 

The day battles allow you to have a nice bath to relieve the aches and pains and sleep in a soft bed.

[NickM]

Most of the Milsims I've been to there is some kind of command structure but it is very loose, they tend to have a trusted/experienced regular at the site, sometimes they are a player marshal/marshal for normal games at the site who is IC with another as the 2IC. Sometimes there are official squads but they are again either regulars or players known to have plenty of experience who IC/2IC the squad. They handle coms with the organiser and often have additional info into the scenarios, there are not really any orders as such, things tended to get organised by Chinese parliament ( well, as described in various SAS books its how I imagine it works) Everyone gathered, heard the objectives, offered suggestions and the most popular was actioned.

 

In one game they had a "local population" and there were meetings between the IC's and "locals" there was play acting but no saluting etc. I wouldn't bother going to a game like that. Stirling have always put me off as my fitness isn't all that great and I worry I'll not be able to keep up for the duration. And after a knee op last year I don't feel confident running about strange places esp woods in the dark so tend to volunteer to do a larger share of guard duty over the night portions of the event.

 

As for guard duty, actually in the longer games especially at night it was a really good feature. One of the objectives was to mail notes in a post box in the middle of the opposition base, points for each note containing a time and name of a player, minimum of 5 mins between notes for each person on the team, and you had to post them personally. We posted two on stag at our base (we were in a corner of the site so two sides were out of play) at all times which gave two 6 man patrols or three 4 mans out taking objectives. We rotated round which gave everyone a break from running about. Some people me included chose to do more than my share but others wanted to keep going so they took my patrol space. It meant that we were much more active in the final stages of the game the next day.

 

The event ended up coming down to the wire, with the points from the post boxes ultimately costing the other team the game, 2 of our guys sat in their base for 30 mins drinking a beer and videoing themselves posting notes, 12 in total, that didn't include the whole patrol that walked through on another occasion and the guy that actually bumbled into their base by accident after getting separated from the squad. They had about 20 ish notes between 10pm and 7am and didn't even know we had done it as they hadn't bothered with guards. We didn't have any notes at all.

[NickM]

They sometimes had pre arranged times in the night when things would go quiet, generally after a load of objectives had been completed and just before another big one. There would be a half hour to regroup and square away every 2 or 3 hours, have a brew and some food probably because it was November and it was pretty damn cold.

 

There can also be different objectives with different levels of importance running at the same time, for example finding small bits of intel dotted around the site for small points or going for that big juicy target worth loads of points. So you have to decide which to go for.

[Russe11]

No saluting in WW2 airsoft games either. Some people have rank badges but they mean nothing. There will be a designated officer for each side to co-ordinate things but thats it. No radios either. The main difference is that you work as a team, no lone wolfing. A lot of players are also re-enactors but there is no pressure to have perfect kit. Games vary but a few will have very limited combat. There was a game due to happen in August that was based on POW's escaping, so one side was actually unarmed. It just seems a lot more fun to have a more immersive experience rather than a series of hour long games among some big blue barrels with teams made up of SWAT, Seals and god knows what else. It's also nice that there's no-one with a £1000 gun always shooting you before you can get anywhere near being in range to hit him. Also people tend to take their hits.

[Happy]

Doesn't appeal to me on paper, but I haven't been to one so will judge it if I ever go to a couple.

 

Like Black Death said, I can see why some like it and others don't. But saluting and ranks? That's very sad.

[Baz JJ]

I wouldnt get too hung up on the ranks and saluting bit - its a very small minority that do it - I mentioned it to show the variation and shades of grey in what people call milsim.

 

I think the comment about lone wolfing is very valid and probably one of the prime differences between milsims and skirmishes.

 

In a skirmish I played, a sniper from the other team was giving a few of us from our team a hard time. I tried to get some of the other players to work with me to pin him down by using a bit of teamwork and supporting fire. Nobody was interested and all just did their own thing. Result - the sniper got each of us, one at a time. In a milsim, you would generally not be in a 30-50 strong team, all running round doing your own thing. You would be broken down into smaller squads and teams and you would fight and work together in your little team as is done in real life. I think its more rewarding and you tend to get to know your team mates, either from preparation beforehand or during the game.

 

I suppose you might get that if you skirmish in your own Airsoft team, but if you play alone or with just one friend, etc, milsims can be a way of getting a bit more team spirit.

 

In terms of taking orders, little Napoleons are strongly discouraged. Normally a form of Chinese parliament, as Nick called it, is used. If somebody is elected as a squad leader for example, that can be rotated around, so everybody can have a go (if they want to, of course) at leading a team of 4-5 players over the course of the day or weekend.

[Lord_Metile]

EAG do night games

[Baz JJ]

Quite a few sites do night games. Are they skirmish or milsim though ?

[Baz JJ]

One of the other main differences that occurs to me, between skirmish games and milsim games is the regen rules.

 

The milsim tries to instal some real fear of losing your game "life", so that players are more mindful when engaging the enemy and its therefore more realistic. Ive played in skirmishes where players just throw themselves at the enemy, die in a hail of BBs, run back 50m, touch a tree and they are back in the game. Life is cheap

 

In milsims, there are normally medic rules, so if you get shot, you need another of your team to apply a bandage or something similar, to allow you to rejoin the game. If they don't get to you, then you bleed out and are considered Killed In Action or KIA.

Some games take it further and the games Im involved in, use a morphine autojet to give you another chance at staying in the game.

 

You can regen in milsims but it normally takes longer and you are often kept out of the game long enough so you cant rush back and leap straight back into the fight to help the mates you just died alongside.

 

Some games also make you change ID/callsign when you die and regen.

[NickM]

Their night games are on the filmsim spectrum or maybe soft milsim,

medic rules apply ( bleed out times are quite strict, if hit you remain in your position calling for a medic for a set length of time, normally bleed out 5 or 10 mins, then you return to your base and wait for a 4 man squad to form before returning to the game),

there are ammo limits,

a vague back story,

teams denoted by colour typically green vs tan (with DPM and DDPM so cheap in surplus shops and colour of rigs are irrelevant so its pretty much open to anyone)

rolling objectives although occasionally they have short breaks so it ends up being a series of play pause play etc.

 

The risk of loosing your life and the penalty that is likely to incur tends to make people play smart rather than super aggressive.

 

I find there is far less aggression and cheating. You are probably paying more money to play the game, you have probably prepared for it for a significant amount of time perfecting kit choices and fettling with kit so you are showing much more commitment to the whole concept. You will be in a smaller group than your average skirmish and everyone pretty much is in the same boat so cheating is not tolerated at all.

[Baz JJ]

Just starting to develop the plot now as props need to be made and bought for the Okto Eight game, even though its three months away.

 

Everybody wants to be SOF of course, but the rebels are well funded from overseas interests who want to see the government topple.

 

Its not just going to be Airsoft fighting. Got some actors playing certain roles to inject some realism and some very interesting mission challenges and "toys" to play with. Does that make it filmsim ?

[CaptainSwoop]

Only if it's based on a film

[Baz JJ]

In that case, I guess its not Filmsim.

Probably not pure milsim either though.

 

Lots of flavours...