Fatboy40

I'm very happy to be corrected by others but to have 31,000 turns of copper wire on an armature would mean that the wire would be microscopically thin (bending the laws of physics kind of thin). I've not disassembled and serviced an electric motors since I used to race RC cars, but it really can't be TPA. It has to be RPM, but who knows at what voltage so lets assume 11.1v so they can put a nice high number on their packaging So, I'm still leaning towards it just being too fast a motor, and we've no idea how efficient the Falcon controller is regarding braking the motor so we only get a single gearbox cycle (but as it's made to a very cheap price point I'm going to assume it's nowhere close to as good as say a GATE Titan). A manufacturer like GATE may even publish figures for how high an RPM is supported, so that active braking can occur effectively, and we could use this as our yardstick for the Falcon as well.

If the "31000" value refers to RPM then I think that's a bit too fast a motor. DE say that the stock motor is 19k RPM (but not at what voltage), I'm running AK2M4 XT 22 TPA ones that are 22k RPM on 11.1v and get a very snappy trigger (due to the better magnets etc.), so 31k RPM is going waaaaay beyond what the stock RPM is.

Totally agree. You've still got all the foliage until later in October but not suffering with heat stroke.

Looking forward to Heroshark fitting hex mesh to some goggles for me that I've supplied, plus the Kicking Mustang / Silly Ghillie AGM that's on some new camo bits and bobs I've bought, then playing in August at my favourite forest site (Camouflage Airsoft in Alton) and seeing if any of this actually works at all whilst I'm sat in a bush getting eaten by ticks ?

I'd heard that the GATE Aster problems were more to do with them just being slapped into the gearbox, tested working to a very basic level and that was it, no effort to tune them in any way (plus they didn't ship with a USB Link so a customer couldn't really do any good tweaks without buying one). I suppose the difference between the DE M906C and your £300 is around £120, so what do you potentially gain from this? Things I can think of... # Double Eagle customer service is really zero, you're relying on the the reseller you buy it from. You can get a response out of them to questions if you really pester them, but they're not interested as their margins are so low. Specna will be better than this. # The Falcon controller is good for what it is, a very cheap clone of a GATE Titan, but this can show in certain ways. For example there are no firmware updates so in theory it will never work with a brushless motor if you one day wish to have one, it does drain batteries, the low voltage cut off is so low to be non-existent, it can be fried by heavy full auto use on an 11.1v battery. The GATE Aster absolutely is better, can be updated with GATE Control Station, supports brushless motors, has pre-cocking, has low voltage cut off that you can adjust, and can better handle large current draws. # The quality of the rifle in general will be better than a Double Eagle, materials used etc., but not massively better. ... so personally I'd say that the £120 is buying you some more reliability, customisation through the GATE Aster, and hopefully a rifle platform that will last longer overall. If "money's too tight to mention" then maybe this is not the best of posts from me but The Maxx Model M4A-PRO fits perfectly in the M906C and I'll put my neck on the line by saying that it's substantially better than the ZCI plastic (it should be for what it costs!). Couple with the Maxx 21.25mm nozzle you will get small increase in FPS, potentially enough to drop down a spring strength which is a good thing for stressing everything less. Also the solid metal concave nub with an ML bucking is just so good, lots of hop applied with little pressure, so less power lost from the BB.

Headshots only from here on out... https://i.imgur.com/Bf3jK7Z.jpg

It's 21.40mm

Yesterday my son's substantially upgraded Firehawk failed from the very start at chrono, so what did he get moved over to... his backup DE M906C and it worked perfectly (and before we play again everything good is coming out of the Firehawk and going into the M906C, why do these cheap AEG's just always work so reliably for us?)

@Coupsty Happy to help in any way I can as a fellow DE M908A owner, however I run mine as a DMR... ... and have made quite a few changes to it. Out of your list of things you'll be buying you missed one crucial thing off, and that's a sling for your rifle! Being fully metal the M908A weighs quite a bit, so if you have to carry it around all day your arms will be sooooo tired I like this sling a lot... https://www.vipertacticalshop.co.uk/viper-vx-sling.html?variation_id=4840 ... it's very comfortable and the quick adjustment helps when you need the rifle tight to your body if you need to run around. Also with batteries if you do decide on 11.1v Li-Io split ones Valken also do them and they're a little cheaper than Titan's. Edit: Me pretending to look all cool and tactical at Ironsight with my M908A...

Adding to the above it's the M906C all the way from the seven you've listed. Out of the box it's very good for the money, however do be careful with the following (for all Double Eagles with the Falcon controller)... - Using a heavy amount of full auto is not great, the motor will get very hot / you'll use a lot of battery capacity / the Falcon controller can fail due to it. Set the full auto to a three round burst and increase the life of your rifle, plus most places that allow full auto usually want players to stick to short bursts and not overshoot other players. - The Falcon controller doesn't have great battery management, so you 100% must remember to disconnected any batteries after playing. Some good points about the M906C... - It has a 230mm inner barrel, so perfect to swap out with a Maple Leaf AEG 230mm inner barrel. - Add an MR bucking and Omega nub to the above inner barrel and you have an "out of the box" R-Hop (what this means is that you'll be able to shoot heavier BB's like 0.32g or 0.30g and get amazing range. - A Maxx Model M4A-PRO hop unit fits perfectly (FYI the Retro Arms CNC hop unit does not fit, it's too long). Also if using a Maxx hop unit you'll need to swap to a 21.25mm Maxx nozzle as well. - The quick change spring is easy to swap out, and you'll get better power from the right spring (the springs as standard in the DE M900's aren't that good). Go to https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/ and get an XT M100 spring which will take you close to around 345 FPS on 0.20g, and if you go with heavy BB's the M105 is spot on. - Swap to a PTS EPS stock on the rifle and you can fit in absolutely any battery you'd ever want to. Bottom line is that out of the box they're very good, but with a few careful upgrades you can have a rifle shooting 0.32g BB's out for a massive distance and get other players who can't get you but at the same time be within the limit to shoot someone a meter or two away / CQB.

@RostokMcSpoonsWas that in one of your Double Eagles? If yes one thing I find really bad with the Falcon controller is its battery management, and I asked DE about this and got a reply, and if left connected the Falcon does drain batteries substantially more than the big name controllers and will take each cell down below 3 volts (where you enter the zone of killing cells / no return). I left a Li-Po in one of my DE's ages ago and it totally killed it, nicely puffed up, and I've been ultra careful at the end of the day since then. A GATE Titan in another of my AEG's can have a battery left in it for days and drain almost nothing.

I did put in a good word at Spearmint Rhino for you so fingers crossed.

This one... https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/xt-high-torque-motor-22tpa-long-fan ... pulling an XT M105 spring.

Ummm, Mr Spoons, I'm getting 22 to 24 RPS on my DE M904E (stock gears, but admittedly not the stock motor). I think it's time for you to raid the "Upgrade Fund" again ?

I'd better sell the 4x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Titan and 2x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Valken Li-Io's that my son and I use then in our AEG's and DMR, the good RPS we get in them then must mean my chrono is broken, and what see when playing is just an optical illusion.

I'm not going to Google to see what's in stock, you can do that, but Valken branded Li-Io's are a match for Titan's.

Cr0 is 100% right, the Maple Leaf AEG silicone bucking's are an absolute turd, never buy them, never use them. Recently I had a horrible feeding issue with my son's AEG, I tested so many hop units (from big players like Maxx Model and Retro Arms) + nozzles + inner barrels, but the moment I went back to a standard rubber 60 degree ML Macaron everything was perfect. The ML silicone Macaron had such a grip on the BB's, this is in an AEG that is right at the 1.14J UK limit shooting 0.28g's, that they got just past the lips but no further with zero hop applied and BB's then started to back up. I suppose if you play somewhere where the ambient temps are always freezing then maybe the silicone grip will help, but as far as I'm concerned they should all be sent to hell! (and now my son has a Maxx Model M4A-PRO in his AEG, so I'll move him to an ML inner barrel as well + MR bucking + 0.32g BB's, so a £10 silicone bucking has cost me a fortune).

They're a Chinese manufacturer, Chinese like gaudy tacky weird stuff (they love putting awful skins on stock Android), it's not gonna happen unfortunately. Also the Kestrel is not their controller, it's made by a very small Chinese business, "Eshooter" https://eshooter-world.com/

I won't talk about the Super Macron as I've no experience with it, but the Macaron and the MR are VERY different buckings. You can slap a Macaron on almost any inner barrel, and into almost any hop unit, its the Swiss Army Knife of grouping and hop improvement. The MR is really designed to be used with Maple Leaf's own AEG inner barrels for a few reasons... # It has a protruding ring inside the circumference of the bucking, this slots into a specific cut-out on a Maple Leaf AEG inner barrel to improve its air-seal and reduce movement. On a standard inner barrel this can actually reduce the air-seal as the bucking is not tight on the barrel and can make it harder to fit in the hop unit. # The patch on an MR bucking is longer and will not sit correctly on most inner barrels. Look at the inner barrel "window" / "cut-out" on a Maple Leaf AEG and compare it to any other, notice how the window is longer and slopes upwards, this is to perfectly accommodate the MR's patch. Some have said that Prometheus inner barrels can also accommodate MR bucking's properly, but don't take my word for it (personally I've two rifles with MR buckings + Maple Leaf AEG inner barrels and either the Omega nub or the solid concave nub from a Maxx hop unit and the range and consistency improvement with heavy BB's is great (I'm buying a third ML inner barrel on pay day for my son's AEG)).

To throw a spanner in the works my DMR started as a Double Eagle M908A. I picked this for a few reasons... # The "Falcon" controller, which has cycle control, so zero gearbox lock-ups on semi. # A longer handguard so I knew it would support the inner barrel I wanted. # A solid metal receiver so that I could drill it and mount a bolt to lock it to semi only. # It has long wiring at rear so no issues with whatever stock and batteries I chose. ... and I'll happily admit that I've spent £200+ getting it to be almost all the way to what I want it to be. Edit: And here's a photo of it... https://i.imgur.com/z0AVJpA.jpg

To add to this, as we're all not 100% certain of Evolution's quality, the G&G Firehawk is a good example to use. The Firehawk has a 120mm inner barrel and it compensates for this by having an M130 spring in it, which is a hugely powerful spring for an AEG. My son's Firehawk has shot over 100,000 BB's in its 2 1/2 year lifespan, the gearbox shell and gears are fine, but I'm seeing wear on the piston teeth now to the point where I really need to replace it. Also he's now running a 200mm inner barrel and uses 0.28g BB's, with a suppressor and outer barrel extension to hide it, so the stumpy CQB nature of it is gone (and it's a better performing AEG for it).

It's the XT 22 TPA from AK2M4 that I went with, and have it in three AEG's now (I was after a high torque motor as most of the time I play semi only, don't need a crazy RPS, plus one AEG has an M105 spring and the other two are M130's). It's snappier on semi, definitely a lot cooler than the stock Chaoli motor, but had zero effect on battery life (and the two with Falcon's are working just as they did, and another is using a GATE Titan with no problems). Also on my M908A I swapped the pinion gear on the new XT motor over to the one on the stock Chaoli motor as the gears weren't meshing 100% perfectly.

You may get a nice surprise then. When I first took apart my M904E, removed the factory grease everywhere and carefully used Super Lube, I gained around 5 FPS

Action Hobbies?

For me what made the DE M900's great were the cheap, £160'ish polymer bodied ones, from around a year to two years ago. However it seems they don't come into stock in the UK much anymore (of course Taiwan Gun have bloody loads of them though) so all you can find are the metal bodies ones so the price get's bumped up by far too much. Are they still good value, I think so (just), but a fair comparison would be another branded gun with a GATE Aster in it (you get the features without the Titan price). Yes the build quality is not high end, but you get so much for a good price... optical controller with proper cycle control + both piston head and spring guide have bearings + the shimming and lubrication is well done + a very good air seal. But, and you have to be careful here, is that they're not "beginner" friendly, in that the Falcon controller is not tolerant of being used hard on full auto especially on 11.1v so new players may well fry / kill it, plus its battery management is poor and if you forget to take the battery out after a days skirmishing you may find next day a Li-Po with a VERY low cell voltage and possibly even to the point it's been damaged. I love all of mine, but I've been looking after them well (however the M908A's metal receiver is looking well worn now, the paint is very thin / not hard wearing, but I like the look), and I think they'll last me for years yet (I've already swapped in loads of better parts, they're very much "Trigger's Broom"). Personally I'm not sure I'd buy one of their sub machine guns though, mags + some spare parts are a little hard to come by.