Tommikka

I concur with never throwing back, ((do as I say, not as I do)) The pictures below are a team mate - he’s not throwing back, but had a faulty Mk9 where the factory had contaminated the striker fuse with grains of the detonator. Instead of the fuse burning down it blew as soon as it was ignited. Due to quality gloves he only ripped his gloves apart instead of his skin (I don’t think that brand exists anymore, or if they do then there’s been a name change) You never know how long a grenade has to go If it’s a mk5 or mk9 then it’s made up of layers of paper that will mostly direct the bang for noise and flash ‘vertically’ (depending on orientation), if it’s a reusable then it’s the ‘exhaust’ and if it’s smoke then it’s probably going to get hottest after the smoke has finished.

In a minor element of her defence - hair glue is a hair product, just not the same type as Gorilla glue

I can assure you that if I’m screaming like a madman, waving my gun around and demanding surrender ...... that it’s highly likely to be empty Its worked a couple of times though (((Unless I come in making some speech about a lucky punk - in which case it might be empty or I’m tripping on adrenaline and the prospects of a customised revolver kill))

For the new normal post Covid should we be considering Lance kills as an alternative to knife kills?

I’m framing this thread as an area for discussing general and site specific rules It could follow on from recent discussions of representative bodies and standardisation. The specifics of this one is what happens here between about 1:10 & 1:50 Apparently the person outside the window thinks they can claim an elimination - on the basis that they grunted a noise. Can anyone explain how that grunt can be considered ‘surrender’? Next - the fact that she had left the room before he grunted, unless perhaps her back was still passing through the door as we only have fish eye action cam footage. So at best he grunted at an empty area of the room whilst catching a glimpse of her in peripheral vision The surrender rule: Whats your surrender rule? I absolutely hate an absolute surrender rule. It just produces arguments I am a great fan of rules for sneaky people (not cheats) and my version of ‘dont shoot eliminations’ comes in two parts 1) Surrender: You ask someone to surrender, offering the opportunity to not shoot them. They can accept or decline. Accept and they walk (it could be a whole group that surrenders) Decline and let the guns sort it out 2) Tag / knife / rubber chicken / fluffy bunny etc: You tap someone on the shoulder etc with your hand, a rubber knife or other object. You probably need to say or whisper ‘tag, you’re out, got you’ etc just to make it clear This is an absolute elimination - and more importantly a quiet elimination. The victim should leave the area etc as normal. It allows a sneaky person to get the benefit of having snuck around finding themselves outnumbered behind enemy lines Unless circumstances dictate there should not be a minimum engagement distance that enforces ‘surrender only within x metres’ It causes these arguments (Just walk away people. As a Marshall I’m making decisions from what I see, and as an organiser of the games I’ve marshalled, probably every argument I’ve encountered fell into the “Have you read the event pack and did you listen to my brief?”) Good reasons for an absolute minimum are for safety purposes such as a pure rental game or young players, and particular weapon/RIF types. Proper ‘skirmishes’ should be an environment of ‘grown ups’. (I’m not restricting that to adults, but including reasonable younger ages) Without being dickheads players should expect to be shot, dress appropriately if they don’t want to be shot on skin. (I often like to play in a t shirt - that comes with awareness that a close up shot on my forearm is going to hurt more)

No courier can carry pyro in their ‘standard’ method. For those who do accept pyro, on the face of it there’s no difference in the van that picks up and drops off, but it will only be accepted on certain methods in their portfolio, can’t be loaded in airmail etc and within limits on the amount of each type of pyro. There are likely to be allocated slots within the week from a ‘normal’ courier for their specialist options, and most will only go via a specialist so can go anytime any day - at a cost Small amounts may be able to go via normal methods. Getting it to the shop will be in real bulk, by a specialist courier - or by the manufacturers own transport. Retailers are between a rock and a hard place with pyro - unless they have specialist storage they are limited on how much they can stock at any one time, this then also affects their ability to supply a bulk buying customer and doesn’t make it viable to use a specialist supplier to send less often - they can, but the price of sending can make the purchase less attractive to the player Airsoft zone probably want to offload a good quantity of mk5s, dropping to a good price to attract a click & collect buyer, but the cost of sending and headache of a good specialist put the price back up Back in the day before we got involved with Enola I used to plan work trips to outlying branches so that I could go to the Midlands on a Thursday or Friday for a stop off for a couple of cases of pyro Hitting the optimum price bracket and no postage premium

(Many don’t understand humour in the US....)

Weave the vertical strips in and out of the horizontal strips Fast forward to about 5:00 in this: If it’s too tight then needle nose pliars can help to grip and pull the vertical through the horizontal Use the buttons to secure (Note that a properly weaved MOLLE that goes through two or three horizontals should stay in place without the buttons to secure. But secure it for extra reliability

It’s customs fraud Unless it is a genuine commercial sample, being sent to a business, the sample is unusable for sale (marked as a sample, parts removed or drilled out etc) It has been standard practice for certain Hong Kong sellers etc to mark declarations as zero value, custom sample etc - and then include a copy of the original invoice / delivery note. In many cases it’s pointless evasion on low value goods below import thresholds.

A pointer about the free memberships: Free is nice. But free does nothing for them but getting numbers, for any official government body or sports England etc overlooking it doesn’t show ‘true’ committed members (UKARA is better on that front as it is people who have committed a level of playing and joined a site) Delta Force (Tesco’s of paintball) attempted to make a claim with sports England by counting everyone who has played their rental sites calling them ‘members’ - they were laughed out. The UKPSF made a move to boost membership with a free option, it was a terrible struggle to get people to put their name on a piece of paper. Either valuing it as nothing because it was free or wondering what the con was It was known that sport England would not recognise free members, but the intent was to hook people and try to gain upgrades later. It’s only been in the last year with Covid that players have paid attention again. (From the 90s the UKPSF was one man, it took him stating that he was going to step down in 2014 to make people realise that it was about to become nothing, and for the last few years it has had a true committee and is making slow progress) Airsofts main action was probably 2006 & 2007 with the VCR bill/act, and is behind in those terms. But airsoft players have not been able to just totally sit back due to the need for UKARA etc - so there’s a possible advantage there that may beat player apathy If you can do so, sign up with a paid option. The money is probably all spent on the patches etc, or a tiny element remains - but it shows commitment from you to the game. If they get a penny left over per person then that will eventually make a £1 and they can afford a phone call to government

I can run a 4 minute mile But not necessarily in 4 minutes

I think we are on the same page with regard to staff who are players, just at a slightly different point on the page Perhaps I have more faith in the ‘love for the game’ vs ‘Me and my mates awesome and all you other guys are using up our time’ (not ‘player marshals’* but marshals on the day) There is value in the player who loves the game working in the game. But also alongside the average persons weekend job - who may or may not catch the bug Either or neither could have the skills to deal with people, and to recognise that everyone is a paying customer Someone needs to impart those skills - which if not happening can be a gentle or not so gentle nudge from other businesses or ‘the body’ The dickhead Marshall for any flavour of dickhead is a disaster Guides and best practice can and should come from ‘the body’ (which will have to originate from the community) It does need a gentle touch to ease in standards - but a bit firmer to prise out dangers * I could be called a hypocrite there as I have put in marshal factions on a number of events - but as part of the theme and the game design, not as free Marshall’s who actually just want to play. I have to ensure that someone ‘newer’ knows what the expectations are for the role ((I had one where we played the ‘locals’. If we had costume on we were a local, with hi vis we were a marshal. As a local we fed the storyline and missions, boosted/assisted/harassed players. As I was doing a circuit I had a complaint - ‘’marshal can you sort out your mate? he’s not taking his hits and keeps shooting us out when our medic heals us. We can’t get to our objective as we have to keep fighting him Why is he shooting you? We just fire a couple of shots at him then he opens up on us Did you listen to the rule about locals being invincible? And they fight back? Yes Have you tried not shooting him? ..... and they cautiously walk past Will unhindered)) I have attended a special event which was meant to be ‘by players for players’, but they had no idea what they were letting themselves into. It became ‘by players for other paying players to fund our fun and we will all drop out of marshalling at the last minute’

Paintball fully has RIFs ((in my opinion - others may like to disagree)) Its been ‘tested’ a number of times. Not just the obvious magfeds, but also hoppers that look like firearms and a police study highlighted almost the whole stock of a retailer - anything black. In the early days of VCRA a least one batch of pistols to a distributor was ceased & destroyed. With the UKPSF nothing has proceeded against paintball RIFs or potential RIFs, and though not strictly to the absolute word of the VCRA & skirmishing there has been feedback from the Home Office that UKPSF may pass the test in court. (Preferably that home office guidance prevents something getting as far as court to get tested) The look of paintball, plus the two images of either rambos or stag/hen parties hasn’t prevented any progress with Sport England etc A benefit to paintball is the well established tournament formats, which aid the competition element with an international flavour. If recognised status is achieved then recreational paintball will benefit as the grass roots feed to the ‘sporting’ element —— that’s government and lottery grants etc Airsoft could equally follow a similar path. On a sporty look there is speedsoft, which I think mostly remains a style rather than an established ‘sport’ version, but there’s also competition shooting with airsoft which aligns nicely with other shooting sports

@DaktariTbrought up the ‘by players for players’ So my thoughts on what that is may or may not be the same as his. I have access to land and could do my own private thing, as a team we could play or test things out. However I won’t use it, the activity belongs on a proper site. Someone with their own land, or permission, along with the ability to ensure safety and not be an anti social nuisance could do so. I would classify that as something private. A bad idea to go further with it with establishing some form of ‘site’ (and on the verge of ‘outlaw’) Im leaning to read his ‘by players for players’ to be a public site run by players. Ideally in a business manner - assuming he is differing a business run as just a business by a non player against a business run by someone interested in the game I have no problem with staff being players, but they should be working not playing - and a local field for local people that’s supposed to be a public site but is a clique where the favourites never get eliminated by new strangers is toxic Outlaw (or ‘off world’) means different things to different people. In the US this could be ‘by players for players’ and run well but not a business. Or the beginnings of what will develop Into a future site In the UK I would preferably say there is no outlaw - but the recent occurrence of Covid breaching airsoft in the woods would/could be outlaw. Without the covid breach it may have been ‘legal’ but private land Outlaw/off world being outside of ‘proper’ sites - and not organised properly such as renting an unusual location

Yes - anything that’s happened is elsewhere such as Facebook - or locked away under membership areas

A governing body doesn’t just govern sites - particularly for the moment it speaks for the sites In some industries the bodies have control under legislation etc, in many more they are voluntary. Businesses opt to join them for credibility, to have their voice heard etc

Though sites by players for players are sites Unless it’s a private field/team field etc - generally known as outlaw in the US

There needs to be something that represents every community, whether that is an overarching body or a consortium of the players, sites and trade/retail. A body that is just for the players will just be a players body. Sites can just take no notice - and there still won’t be anything to enable sites to open Airsoft is meant to be cheaper than paintball, but paintball can run to a set standard, pay the staff and not rely on player Marshall’s like some sites. Airsoft is cheaper in BBs, and the cost of rental paintballs are vastly higher than walkon paintballs. There is some wiggle room to up airsoft green fees. Tiny sites may still be unviable - which reflects the fact that paintball is propped up by the rental player, however ‘walk-on’ airsofters are more regular with games run weekly in comparison to walkon paintball run monthly It’s not critical for every site to subscribe to a governing body (but a body will represent members in favour of non members) Hopefully the small sites are insured etc - otherwise if it’s a tiny site with unpaid ‘staff’, uninsured and unsafe then that’s what you want to wean out or get onboard There are basic standards that should be in place - muzzle energy / velocity, BB standards, safety standards, insurance, marshal to player ratios (which can differ between one off rentals and regular player games), eye protection (Id like to wipe glasses off the minimum and make it sealed goggles around the eye area, or full face - but insurers are happy with accepting impact glasses, so that’s a minimum standard for starters) Rules and fine tuning can be left to sites or for later editions - perhaps a tweak of the ‘minimum’ for woods/open urban/CQB/unusual environments

You don’t for airsoft to exist But for formal sports recognition airsoft does, and for tomorrow’s step 1b of the road map airsoft does

(Unless somethings about to go wrong) .... UKPSF had their action plan approved, and distributed among member sites, noting that their release did highlight that the approval was in regard to UKPSF accredited sites meeting their criteria specified in the oak assessments, action plan etc, and sites have since been gaining approval with local EHOs in line with the documentation. Paintball isn’t a formaly recognsied sport with Sport England so UKPSF fall into the second criteria of submitting their plans to Sport England first. (There is also existing action underway between UKPSF and Sport England to gain formal recognition, but there’s a long way to go)

Under the UKPSF they can open for paintball - it falls within sports & activities with governing bodies

Do you need to control BBs from escaping or deaden noise? Fine construction netting is pretty much site boundary netting. A reasonably thick sheet hung and able to swing will aid to deaden noise and reduce force Foam would then be fine behind it, or rugs/carpet

Not entirely - the original roadmap guidance stated the requirement to follow governing body guidance. Without a governing body airsoft sites were on a sticky wicket ....unless dual airsoft/paintball and following UKPSF guidance —— if it could be safely claimed that the site could open under paintball and also run airsoft The latest update appears to be a clarification on the position of airsoft

.... and the guidance on the road map specified venues needed to align with their respective governing bodies