Customs police came to my home

[Mini airsoft]

Today the customs police came to my house. The gun I bought two months ago has not been updated since it arrived in the UK a month ago. I suspect it was lost or seized by customs. Now I know that it was the customs that seized my gun. They mentioned that it was illegal for me to import a RIF, but when I said that I had a ukara defense, they simply said that they didn't know the specific reason for the seizure. They just checked the guns I already had at home. I asked the seller in Taiwan, and they said that the ukara was written on the commercial invoice. Maybe they didn't notice the ukara on it? They mentioned that if I import it again, it will be a crime and I may be arrested, but I already have a ghk akm on the way and arrived in the UK. It seems that it has not been updated for several days and it is likely to be seized by customs again. What should I do?

I am pretty sure this pistol FPS is under the limit 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

Sorry to hear you've been caught out, best advice would be seek legal advice, but with people that have the relevant knowledge. There are a few legal minds here that may be able to guide.

 

Ukara is only a defence, not an exception 

[Tommikka]

Solicitor

 

With many you can get a free initial consultation session (don’t confuse this with ‘no win no fee’ - which translates to lose and it costs you)

They can advise you properly on the specifics of your case and either give you direction or represent you if needed)

 

…..

 

 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

A strange one, I've also had a visit (at work actually). Once I was able to explain I was importing it using my UKARA defence, because I was an active airsofter, they were satisfied. We even joked about it, as several of their colleagues were airsofters too.

 

The RIF remained seized by Border Force though, as by that stage I would have had to go to court over it and I didn't think it was worth it.

 

Don't forget, even if you have a valid defence, the RIF may be seized if the shipper misdeclares to customs. ie by stating "toy" or "model part" etc.

[Tommikka]

Note that the ‘customs police’ don’t exist 

You were visited by the police following notification by customs 

 

Telling you that you ‘may be arrested’ for another import pretty much means the same as now - the police may turn up again.  (But tell the solicitor that)

 

The invoice was probably not looked at, most RIF imports are handled as an administrative process.

As your current tracking has held up, call and enquire about a VCRA declaration. (Don’t complain about your previous one in this call - or speak to a solicitor first)

 

 

 

Note - As your previous one just stopped until the police arrived it was potentially waiting for a form but you didn’t get it and didn’t respond - there also may be many other reasons for seizure

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, Mini airsoft said:

What should I do?

 

Not sweat it, it's clearly a random process, and you have a defence should it come to it.

 

If you do speak to a solicitor, I'd hope the advice is "Don't invite the police in, don't show off your assault-shaped toys, and don't talk to them at all."

[Mini airsoft]

Just now, Rogerborg said:

 

Not sweat it, it's clearly a random process, and you have a defence should it come to it.

 

If you do speak to a solicitor, I'd hope the advice is "Don't invite the police in, don't show off your assault-shaped toys, and don't talk to them at all."

What should I do with the seized guns? Another ghk akm I received seems to have been seized as well. Now, since I am not in the UK at the moment, I don't know how to deal with this matter.

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

Note that the ‘customs police’ don’t exist 

You were visited by the police following notification by customs 

 

Telling you that you ‘may be arrested’ for another import pretty much means the same as now - the police may turn up again.  (But tell the solicitor that)

 

The invoice was probably not looked at, most RIF imports are handled as an administrative process.

As your current tracking has held up, call and enquire about a VCRA declaration. (Don’t complain about your previous one in this call - or speak to a solicitor first)

 

 

 

Note - As your previous one just stopped until the police arrived it was potentially waiting for a form but you didn’t get it and didn’t respond - there also may be many other reasons for seizure

Can I submit my form to customs proactively? Or tell them that my defense is on the commercial invoice and ask them to check. But according to the police investigated above, they already have my number, will they inform customs and then release my gun?

[Tommikka]

20 minutes ago, Mini airsoft said:

What should I do with the seized guns? Another ghk akm I received seems to have been seized as well. Now, since I am not in the UK at the moment, I don't know how to deal with this matter.

 

20 minutes ago, Mini airsoft said:

Can I submit my form to customs proactively? Or tell them that my defense is on the commercial invoice and ask them to check. But according to the police investigated above, they already have my number, will they inform customs and then release my gun?

It’s unlikely (but not impossible) that the police visit will result in your UKARA being confirmed and the original released

 

We can’t advise on an actual way ahead, just try to ensure that customs get a VCRA declaration for the current one

You can be pro-active to a degree, but need it to match at least the tracking reference - 

 

It is only an assumption that you failed the VCRA check due to lack of matching UKARA details / failing to have a VCRA declaration - it could have stopped for any reason.  (Over powered/no power declaration, no VCRA declaration, bad customs declaration by the sender*, or even that the customs officer didn’t like the look of it)

 

* bad declarations in the past such as toy, product sample, value $0.01 etc seem like old Chinese sellers doing a favour to avoid import charges but they are false declarations - and it’s you as importer who are liable - a grumpy customs official can instantly seize

[Mini airsoft]

3 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

You can be pro-active to a degree, but need it to match at least the tracking reference - 

Thank you, can you tell me how to take proactive measures? I know my tracking reference

[EvilMonkee]

What age are you?

[Mini airsoft]

4 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

What age are you?

25

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Mini airsoft said:

Thank you, can you tell me how to take proactive measures? I know my tracking reference

You would need to make contact with the carrier who is handling the package at customs

That may or may not be the international carrier that it was sent via

 

If the tracking identifies the location it is at then you may be able to find contact details.

 

Check your email junk / spam folders to see if you have been sent anything that has been missed 

Take a look at the thread here :

 

 

 

There are examples of VCRA declarations, but carriers appear to have moved to e-forms now

 

[Mini airsoft]

10 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

You would need to make contact with the carrier who is handling the package at customs

That may or may not be the international carrier that it was sent via

 

If the tracking identifies the location it is at then you may be able to find contact details.

 

Check your email junk / spam folders to see if you have been sent anything that has been missed 

Take a look at the thread here :

 

 

 

There are examples of VCRA declarations, but carriers appear to have moved to e-forms now

 

I just checked my mailbox and found a letter, and like most people I don't think they found the ukara in the invoice at all. How can I tell them that they shouldn't seize my gun?

[MistakenMexican]

9 hours ago, Mini airsoft said:

Today the customs police came to my house. The gun I bought two months ago has not been updated since it arrived in the UK a month ago. I suspect it was lost or seized by customs. Now I know that it was the customs that seized my gun. They mentioned that it was illegal for me to import a RIF, but when I said that I had a ukara defense, they simply said that they didn't know the specific reason for the seizure. They just checked the guns I already had at home. I asked the seller in Taiwan, and they said that the ukara was written on the commercial invoice. Maybe they didn't notice the ukara on it? They mentioned that if I import it again, it will be a crime and I may be arrested, but I already have a ghk akm on the way and arrived in the UK. It seems that it has not been updated for several days and it is likely to be seized by customs again. What should I do?

I am pretty sure this pistol FPS is under the limit 

most commonly, the UKARA number has a typo or the paper has fallen off the consignment. Both have happened to me. Never had a visit from police. normally you get a snotty letter saying you’re breaking the law unless you provide a defence, and at that point you get the opportunity to provide a defence. I wonder if the letter never got to you?

[Mini airsoft]

19 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

There are examples of VCRA declarations, but carriers appear to have moved to e-forms now

 

I have received this kind of email before. It is true that only UPS has this kind of electronic form. I filled it out and customs released it. But this time I was asked by parcel force...

1 minute ago, MistakenMexican said:

most commonly, the UKARA number has a typo or the paper has fallen off the consignment. Both have happened to me. Never had a visit from police. normally you get a snotty letter saying you’re breaking the law unless you provide a defence, and at that point you get the opportunity to provide a defence. I wonder if the letter never got to you?

I just received this letter today, how ironic😩

[Anonymoose]

8 minutes ago, Mini airsoft said:

I just checked my mailbox and found a letter, and like most people I don't think they found the ukara in the invoice at all. How can I tell them that they shouldn't seize my gun?

 

 

There should be a reference number on the letter.

 

E-mail [email protected] with that and all relevant info.

 

I had 3 seized by Border Force, they were eventually released once all relevant info was provided.

[Mini airsoft]

19 minutes ago, Anonymoose said:

 

 

There should be a reference number on the letter.

 

E-mail [email protected] with that and all relevant info.

 

I had 3 seized by Border Force, they were eventually released once all relevant info was provided.

Hello, what information do I need to provide them? Ukara and my address and description of the gun? Do I need to tell them what law I am protected by? And do I need to provide them with the invoice?

[Tackle]

Give as much information as you can,  regarding quoting the law, be careful how you explain it, you'll never meet an "official" who is prepared to be told how to do their job, especially if they've been rumbled for doing it wrong. 

So explain your toys should be covered by your ukara, a defence recognised under the violent crime reduction act, & that you've imported rifs previously with no problems.

Maybe try to ascertain exactly why they've been held, & if so where the fault lies, because if they dig their heels in, better to be able to prove the seller or the carrier is at fault, in order to pursue a refund or replacement. 

& whatever happens, remain polite & respectful, don't raise your voice or swear, even in a lighthearted context, these days there are so many triggers that can be invoked if you enable them.

[Anonymoose]

52 minutes ago, Mini airsoft said:

Hello, what information do I need to provide them? Ukara and my address and description of the gun? Do I need to tell them what law I am protected by? And do I need to provide them with the invoice?

 

UKARA should be enough, but i bombarded them with info like RIF import declaration form, prior and future airsoft bookings, my photo ID, UKARA/site card photo, how it's valid under section whatever of VCRA blah blah.

 

Eventually after a bit of back and forth they released my stuff.

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Mini airsoft said:

Hello, what information do I need to provide them? Ukara and my address and description of the gun? Do I need to tell them what law I am protected by? And do I need to provide them with the invoice?

It depends on what the letter states.

Does it say that you need to provide a defence, or that it has been seized - which may or may not give next steps?

 

As above posters have already commented, you want to give details on why your import is legitimate.  (And similar to the details in the VCRA declaration forms)

 

Your import is a RIF as per the VCRA

Your defence is as an “airsoft skirmisher” with UKARA membership details

(give your UKARA, and possibly your member site etc —— make sure that your UKARA address has not changed as that could be an issue and your UKARA had been checked and failed - if so then back that up with “first registered on date 123 at address abc and moved on date 234 to address xyz)

 

Add anything useful to back up skirmishing as your use is to play airsoft skirmishing at the insured site x

 

Back in the day I made my first VCRA import as a paintballer importing some 40mm shells for an underslung grenade launcher - I clearly had no UKARA defend and still do not.

My declaration responses went along the lines of :

Not a RIF

For scenario paintball events (as both player and organiser)

Gave my paintball UKPSF membership

Name of our team as event organisers and named the sites/events coming up to play 

(((I had actually forgotten that I had added a cheap BB shooting dummy launcher as part of the order which I was giving away to an airsofter, so declaring not a RIF could have potentially failed me)))

My declaration was accepted, but have no idea as to whether they accepted “not a RIF” or accepted my multiple declared paintball elements

This however was only just as the VCRA came into force, and was before people began to come back with scare stories of imports seized and destroyed 

 

Stick to being nice and providing a VCRA defence

[Mini airsoft]

13 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It depends on what the letter states.

Does it say that you need to provide a defence, or that it has been seized - which may or may not give next steps?

 

As above posters have already commented, you want to give details on why your import is legitimate.  (And similar to the details in the VCRA declaration forms)

 

Your import is a RIF as per the VCRA

Your defence is as an “airsoft skirmisher” with UKARA membership details

(give your UKARA, and possibly your member site etc —— make sure that your UKARA address has not changed as that could be an issue and your UKARA had been checked and failed - if so then back that up with “first registered on date 123 at address abc and moved on date 234 to address xyz)

 

Add anything useful to back up skirmishing as your use is to play airsoft skirmishing at the insured site x

 

Back in the day I made my first VCRA import as a paintballer importing some 40mm shells for an underslung grenade launcher - I clearly had no UKARA defend and still do not.

My declaration responses went along the lines of :

Not a RIF

For scenario paintball events (as both player and organiser)

Gave my paintball UKPSF membership

Name of our team as event organisers and named the sites/events coming up to play 

(((I had actually forgotten that I had added a cheap BB shooting dummy launcher as part of the order which I was giving away to an airsofter, so declaring not a RIF could have potentially failed me)))

My declaration was accepted, but have no idea as to whether they accepted “not a RIF” or accepted my multiple declared paintball elements

This however was only just as the VCRA came into force, and was before people began to come back with scare stories of imports seized and destroyed 

 

Stick to being nice and providing a VCRA defence

Thank you mate!! 

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

Give as much information as you can,  regarding quoting the law, be careful how you explain it, you'll never meet an "official" who is prepared to be told how to do their job, especially if they've been rumbled for doing it wrong. 

So explain your toys should be covered by your ukara, a defence recognised under the violent crime reduction act, & that you've imported rifs previously with no problems.

Maybe try to ascertain exactly why they've been held, & if so where the fault lies, because if they dig their heels in, better to be able to prove the seller or the carrier is at fault, in order to pursue a refund or replacement. 

& whatever happens, remain polite & respectful, don't raise your voice or swear, even in a lighthearted context, these days there are so many triggers that can be invoked if you enable them.

Thanks! 

1 hour ago, Anonymoose said:

 

UKARA should be enough, but i bombarded them with info like RIF import declaration form, prior and future airsoft bookings, my photo ID, UKARA/site card photo, how it's valid under section whatever of VCRA blah blah.

 

Eventually after a bit of back and forth they released my stuff.

Okay mate thanks! 

[Mini airsoft]

Good news! They have release the parcels 

[Enid_Puceflange]

Nice!

Thats a relief for you dude 👍

[EvilMonkee]

This is why I always include my UKARA as part of my address when ordering from abroad.

[Pseudotectonic]

We should be able to come up with a set of best practice to streamline the process. To ease the process for customs and minimise risks of seizure or police visit, we need the parcel to be very clear about what it is and what it isn't.

 

1. We can make or fill in a declaration form ourselves, and tell the overseas sender to attach it to the parcel. This saves time for UPS to email you asking for it. The Tracking Number field can be left blank so the seller or UPS can fill it in themselves.

  - Since there is no official format of such a declaration, essentially it just needs to says what the parcel is and what it isn't.

  - To make it extra clear what the relevant rules are, the declaration form can contain small paragraphs to explain this is a VCRA controlled import, and the declaration is made for such control i.e. providing defence. Meaning, it is NOT firearms or other stuff requiring some sort of license, but an RIF or airsoft adjacent goods that are relevant to VCRA only.

  - The form made by UPS should do this job fine at telling what it is and isn't, but it is very basic and can confuse or spook a customs officer when they see some checkboxes for firearms, leading to them wrongly follow the procedures for firearms. So there is potential for a better version of a declaration form made specifically for RIFs and airsoft goods.

 

2. The parcel should have clear markings of "VCRA IMPORT SEE DECLARATION" and "UKARA NUMBER", to eliminate any excuse for customs officers (or police) to not look at the declaration attached.

  - As suggested by others some people are doing it in a hacky way like putting it as part of address. But if it isn't a big and bold and obvious label, it could be missed. It should be identifiable at first glance, like any other warning labels on other types of parcels.

 

With 1+2, overseas retailers need to update their procedures for sending to the UK.

 

We can probably draft some basic leaflets or paragraphs explaining what a new best practice might be. Which can then be copy pasted or emailed to the overseas shop.

 

For example...

Quote

Dear shop,

 

Pls do this, also make sure to attach the RIF_declaration_YYYYMMDD_UKARA-ABC12345.pdf

 

Thanks,

Buyer