V2 Upgrade Clarification

[JinxDuh]

Hey guys, put together an upgrade list for the Umarex HK416A5 AEG patrolbase supposedly "fixed" after having a giant fps leak. (Spoiler, it's still useless)

 

On a budget after buying the gun, patrolbase have said they can't do anything further so I'm on my own now. Just want to make sure all of this is satisfactory, or if any of the parts are bad and should be replaced with x, y or z

 

 

I'm not looking to make it a high ROF gun or outrange snipers etc, just want it to function decently so I can enjoy using it and not have to worry about bb's falling to the floor 5 metres in front of me (Thanks pb, it's definitely fixed...)

 

I appreciate any help, suggestions and insight from you fine people!

[concretesnail]

First I'd suggest not buying anything until you know what the issues is. There may be nothing wrong with the stock parts, and if there are, and its was purchased new from patrolbase then they should be giving you a new one. 

 

Alternatively 

 

Check the seal on the compression parts. If its good then move to the hop up unit and nozzle mating. 

If all is consistent then look to the spring. 

Once all above have done then the Perun to add functionality. 

 

It could be something as simple as new oring.

 

[JinxDuh]

11 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

First I'd suggest not buying anything until you know what the issues is. There may be nothing wrong with the stock parts, and if there are, and its was purchased new from patrolbase then they should be giving you a new one. 

 

Alternatively 

 

Check the seal on the compression parts. If its good then move to the hop up unit and nozzle mating. 

If all is consistent then look to the spring. 

Once all above have done then the Perun to add functionality. 

 

It could be something as simple as new oring.

 

 

So patrol base put it down as an air leak. They stated that they had: 

Replaced the hop rubber, piston o ring and a stiffer spring.

FPS On 0.2bb: 345

 

However, chrono'ing today yielded a whopping 203 on .20g bb's

 

Using it throughout the day today, every shot was veering off in various directions or just dropping to the floor in front of me, and every roughly 5th or 6th shot (after a normal hopped shot) being on target and hopping as it should have done. Moving the rotary dial didn't seem to make any difference at all.

 

I plan to also fit a prommy purple which isn't on the list as it's out of stock at bullseye so will look elsewhere.

 

Really I just want to get the rifle shooting great now, so I don't have to worry about it later on down the line and know I have a reliable rifle for game days. 😂

[Leo Greer]

First off, I should mention that you actually have a rather high speed set up posted here. Rocket/SHS HTs tend to run at around 35K RPM unloaded.

 

Assuming everything is built right, this setup should give you 30+ RPS on 11.1v. The issue with this is PME on your fairly weak spring.

 

Next, I should mention that the majority of the parts posted aren’t really upgrades. Before buying anything you should check the gearbox yourself, as none of these parts are actually better than the stock parts (if they’re not broken or messed up for some reason).

 

In fact, some of the parts could be downgrades depending on fitment (air nozzle and piston). Nozzles in particular can be very, very finicky, and chances are that your stock nozzle does its job great already.

 

The Perun and clicker I can wholly recommend. It’s a luxury upgrade that’s worth it.

 

The barrel is a maybe, in my opinion. AA barrels have a great rep in many circles, so I’d say it’s a good choice IF you wanted to replace your barrel… but there might not be any reason to replace in the first place. Before replacing the barrel, you should always examine the stock one for any defects or reasons to replace, and if not you should polish it up, stabilize it, and try it out!

 

A hop rubber can be a good upgrade, but you should note that the Prometheus purple, while a fine choice, won’t perform better than your stock rubber, unless the stock rubber has something wrong with it, like being too slick and hard or having imperfections/tears in it.

 

TL:DR, you need to assess the internals yourself before doing anything, as most “pro techs” are garbage at what they do. You don’t know what actually needs to be changed, modified, or replaced until you get inside a look.

[Pseudotectonic]

does the nozzle actually fit the hop unit?

[Adolf Hamster]

So if i'm reading this right;

you bought a gun

 

It has an issue

 

You gave it back to the retailer to fix the issue

 

The retailer failed to fix the issue, delivering an unusable product

 

And the solution is to spend a bunch of money you dont really want to have to spend, to fix an undisclosed fuckup by the retailer that may or may not be fixable with the parts you intend to buy?

 

 

I feel like if we replaced the term "airsoft gun" with "washing machine" or for that matter basically any modern purchase i wouldnt need to explain the difference in tone the conversation would be taking.

 

 

However to directly answer the question being asked, you've listed a lot of parts but without necessarily being sure you're replacing the right ones, this very much feels like what i like to call the "coat it in superglue and drag it through the prometheus catalogue" approach to airsoft tinkering.

 

For example one thing not on your list that theoretically could be the cause of the synptoms you see is the cylinder, i have seen guns with holes drilled in the cylinder as an incredibly lazy and frankly negligent "fix" for reducing energy output. If the rest of the box in such a gun was in good order then it could be properly fixed for minimal cost.

 

Now there are multiple things that could be causing your problem and i'm not suggesting that someone has actually drilled a hole in your cylinder, but it is an example of the sort of thing that could happen and makes throwing a bunch of expensive parts that might not necessarily play well together into a gearbox without someone properly diagnosing the real fault will merely result in an empty bank balance and a broken gun.

 

An airsoft tech worth their salt is almost certainly going to need nowhere near all that to fix an air seal issue, and it does seem that a not insignificant secondary objective with your basket is to get a snappier feeling gun, and there's nothing wrong with that if the justification is "i want a snappier gun", indeed that's all you need but perhaps not when it's "my guns broken and i just want it fixed".

[JinxDuh]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to get it looked at somewhere else before I do anything further to it.

 

I'm just really disappointed that something as expensive (to me at least) turned up being a lemon, and after sending it back for a repair, came back the same just with a slightly better fps consistency. It's the first time I've had an issue like this. I definitely want to get the perun and clicker but that'll be once the rest is fixed. 

 

Hopefully it's something simple and I can get the rifle working like it should be with minimal cost. 😂

[Pseudotectonic]

delayer chip?

[JinxDuh]

2 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

delayer chip?

The rifle feeds fine, no dry firing etc. It may be the nozzle not fitting correctly like you suggested. I'm going to have a look tomorrow and see about getting it checked out, fingers crossed it's good news. 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, JinxDuh said:

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to get it looked at somewhere else before I do anything further to it.

 

If this is a recent enough purchase to be covered by consumer protection then i would first and foremost be asking for a refund/replacement.

 

You've given them a chance to fix it, they failed, it's a them problem.

 

This is the one reason people want to buy new is to benefit from the consumer protection/warranty so if you've got that to leverage i'd say use it.

 

3 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

I'm just really disappointed that something as expensive (to me at least) turned up being a lemon, and after sending it back for a repair, came back the same just with a slightly better fps consistency. It's the first time I've had an issue like this. I definitely want to get the perun and clicker but that'll be once the rest is fixed. 

 

 

It is dissapointing, but what's more dissapponting is spending time, money and energy trying to fix a gun only for that not to be the fix.

 

Bad enough when you have to fix a mistake you've made yourself (made that walk of shame a time or ten shit gets old fast) but even worse when it wasnt your fault.

 

7 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

Hopefully it's something simple and I can get the rifle working like it should be with minimal cost. 😂

 

If you're dead set on keeping the gun and taking it somewhere else i'd suggest doing the following:

 

Give them a clear breif on what the gun is currently doing/not doing

 

Give them a clear breif on what you want it to do

 

Let them give you a list of parts, and if they're coming up with that list before looking inside the gun then walk away.

[JinxDuh]

1 minute ago, Adolf Hamster said:

If this is a recent enough purchase to be covered by consumer protection then i would first and foremost be asking for a refund/replacement

 

I purchased it August 24th and discovered the issue August the 25th 

 

When I contacted them regarding the issues, they said they was unable to replace/refund due to the scuffs where I've had optics etc on it. No doubt it would be the same, given the rifle has now been fielded too. Hence why I'm assuming it'll now be down to me to sort out.

 

[MrTea]

Patrolbase are lying is what i'd say. There's no way they chrono at 345fps and then you can't get a BB further than throwing it. You can't take the gearbox apart to see if they've changed anything because (i'm sure) that voids your warranty. If they're unwilling to take it again (or you're unwilling to wait for them to fix it again) send it to a reputable tech; I can personally vouch for TheCageAirsoft who will take guns (and parts) via post and do fantastic work. My MP5 they worked on is a powerhouse.

 

To sate my curiosity, can you look up into the magwell? If there's a sticker there has it been cut/split? If it's there and it's still intact then they haven't been inside the gearbox to do the work they claim they have.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by MrTea

[JinxDuh]

2 minutes ago, MrTea said:

Patrolbase are lying is what i'd say. There's no way they chrono at 345fps and then you can't get a BB further than throwing it. You can't take the gearbox apart to see if they've changed anything because (i'm sure) that voids your warranty. If they're unwilling to take it again (or you're unwilling to wait for them to fix it again) send it to a reputable tech; I can personally vouch for TheCageAirsoft who will take guns (and parts) via post and do fantastic work. My MP5 they worked on is a powerhouse.

 

To sate my curiosity, can you look up into the magwell? If there's a sticker there has it been cut/split? If it's there and it's still intact then they haven't been inside the gearbox to do the work they claim they have.

 

 

So the sticker hasn't been torn/cut/split, it's been removed and restuck on the one side of the gearbox along the seam (If that makes sense). It's definitely odd because somehow the fps has came back worse than before I'd sent it?

 

I've sent an email to patrol base returns team informing them that the rifle is still knackered and asked them what steps to proceed with, thanks to @Adolf Hamster regarding the consumer rights part this falls under all 3 of the standards "Satisfactory quality", "Fit for purpose" & "As described" (They quote Approx. 328fps on their site)

 

Sadly I'm not too hopeful, as they already said they can't refund or replace it when I initially sent it back due to slight rail scuffing, and when I did get it back from them there's a small chunk of receiver taken off from where the body pin is at the front end of the lower. 

[Colin Allen]

22 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

 

I purchased it August 24th and discovered the issue August the 25th 

 

When I contacted them regarding the issues, they said they was unable to replace/refund due to the scuffs where I've had optics etc on it. No doubt it would be the same, given the rifle has now been fielded too. Hence why I'm assuming it'll now be down to me to sort out.

 

The scuffing is irrelevant; you were sold a faulty item that they then failed to fix. 

Contact Citizens' Advice.

 

[ak2m4]

Any Airsoft retailer should not be sending out untested AEGs.  It's very probable that you can fix the issue with a couple of new orings and new bucking and nub.  No need to speed £200+.  Please don't 

 

Where are you based?

[MrTea]

12 minutes ago, JinxDuh said:

Sadly I'm not too hopeful, as they already said they can't refund or replace it when I initially sent it back due to slight rail scuffing, and when I did get it back from them there's a small chunk of receiver taken off from where the body pin is at the front end of the lower. 

 

Fucking Patrolbase lmao. They even damaged it further when attempting to repair it. If you contact citizens advice, make sure to mention all of this and take pictures.

[JinxDuh]

5 minutes ago, ak2m4 said:

Any Airsoft retailer should not be sending out untested AEGs.  It's very probable that you can fix the issue with a couple of new orings and new bucking and nub.  No need to speed £200+.  Please don't 

 

Where are you based?

I'm in the Essex area. They supposedly did the o-rings & hop rubber but it definitely doesn't seem like it when using the rifle. Just very disappointed that it's been nothing but issues since I bought it.

[gavinkempsell]

If you paid via paypal or credit card you have extra consumer protection, log an appeal. goods must be fit for purpose, the supplier has been given a chance to fix the issue & failed.

[C-Diddy]

I'd be angling for a full refund from PB. Seems to be an oft-told tale with them when it comes to RIFs.

 

On the tech front, Sam at Kingdom of Airsoft is superb. He's worked on my TM 416 a couple of times, as parts needed replacing, and has just worked wonders on my son's Specna, including fitting a Perun and Clicker, which are great. He's full of advice for your build too.

 

Hope it works out for you pal. 

[JinxDuh]

27 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

I'd be angling for a full refund from PB. Seems to be an oft-told tale with them when it comes to RIFs.

 

On the tech front, Sam at Kingdom of Airsoft is superb. He's worked on my TM 416 a couple of times, as parts needed replacing, and has just worked wonders on my son's Specna, including fitting a Perun and Clicker, which are great. He's full of advice for your build too.

 

Hope it works out for you pal. 

 

Nice one, thanks. I'll look into him if I don't get any luck with PB!

[JinxDuh]

So an update to this seemingly never ending problem...

 

Patrolbase haven't responded yet, but it's been less than 24 hours so that's understandable.

 

I figured I'd take the inner barrel assembly out and make sure the hop is working, because my m16a1 had an issue where the wheel would just adjust but nothing would change and that led to bb's falling short and going everywhere. Thankfully, the hop is working and adjusting the wheel shows the nub. I'm going to replace the bucking tomorrow per suggestions (Ordered a G&G cold weather because they're quite good and affordable just to test with, that'll be here tomorrow) and hopefully get the fps to where it should be at, as well as fix the veering off shots. Fingers crossed.

 

Update 2:

Had a spare hop up bucking from when I replaced my m16a1 one, figured it couldn't hurt to try it in the 416 and it's firing straight every shot without veering off or dropping instantly. Guess I know what the issue was now! So alas, my saga with patrol base and their dodgy guns, and dodgy replaced buckings comes to (hopefully) an end.

 

Thanks again everybody for the help!

Edited September 18, 2023 by JinxDuh
Update 2