Wanting to by a really good out-of-the box airsoft gun

[RostokMcSpoons]

 Thanks @Leo Greer that's a very useful review of the Novris and Krytacs.  Probably better off with the Specna over either of them then?

[MrTea]

3 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

Krytac is becoming slightly outdated at this point in regard to their offerings for the price. The internals, while being quite solid, are intentionally proprietary in some painful areas, like the spur gear. This leads to the infamous “Krytac squeak”, which is extremely hard to fix

I thought the Krytac squeak was primarily down to the motor, not the gears? Can you just replace the stock gears (I understand they're proprietary?) with aftermarket ones or have they implemented some fuckery where it isn't that simple? I don't want to pay Prommy/Laylax £70+ for some 13:1 gears.

I've also read that the Krytac motors are a slightly different length/size than "standard" motors which makes it difficult to change but as usual the internet is full of conflicting info.

I've been on the fence about doing work to mine or selling it on but I love the aesthetic of the 'wirecutter' handguard.

Edited August 20, 2023 by MrTea

[Yashy]

6 hours ago, C-Diddy said:

I picked a Specna Arms Edge up for my son earlier this year. It's one of the RRA standard Edges, not from the Edge 2.0 series. I have to say, for a sub £200 gun it was pretty impressive out of the box. His mate bought an Ares that was double the price (his dad didn't listen to me!) and that sounds like a bag of dicks next to the Specna.

 

Range and ROF are decent enough, and build quality is fine. I imagine that the Edge 2.0s are an improvement, as alluded to by the trusted voices above. 

 

Having said that, his Specna is currently away getting a service and some TLC as it suffered from a dead trigger at the end of the last game. 

 

Cyma are also producing some awesome, out of the box gems. The Platinum series look really good, and, even though I'm a TM whore, I have a stock Cyma AK that I will never get rid of because it's just brilliant. I've heard their M4s are also pretty damn good too, now.

 

Not heard anything too good about VFC, apart from their externals and official licensing. TM is also pretty much then gold standard for stock performance, but the prices now would stretch your budget. 

 

4 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

Second on Novi—the warranty is nice, and they perform okay OOTB, especially for their price.

 

My one note is that Novi uses (on the SSR4) the same crappy hop unit, hop rubber, and barrel that Lancer Craptical does. All the money is in the gearbox, getting you an ETU, good neo motor, high speed gears, etc.

 

Krytac is becoming slightly outdated at this point in regard to their offerings for the price. The internals, while being quite solid, are intentionally proprietary in some painful areas, like the spur gear. This leads to the infamous “Krytac squeak”, which is extremely hard to fix.

 

Particular to the UK models with lower FPS, they get overspin on 11.1v very easily. This leads to you either needing to use a 7.4v, or do work right out of the box.

 

None of these are “make or break” cons, but when you’re paying as much as you do for a Krytac… you should expect better.

 

On the flip side, Krytac does a lot of things great. Their barrel groups are the most accurate OOTB of any RIF I’ve had my grubby fingers on. Their gearbox shells are bulletproof, and the gears, while proprietary, are stronger than almost all aftermarket sets available.

 

4 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 Thanks @Leo Greer that's a very useful review of the Novris and Krytacs.  Probably better off with the Specna over either of them then?

Someone mentioned one of these rifles, it looks really good. https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/umarex-h-and-k-hk416-a5-aeg-rifle I don't know much about hks, but would this model be better than the other previous gun I was thinking about getting? Link to that :https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-sa-h22-edge-2-0-tm-carbine-aeg

[MrTea]

41 minutes ago, Yashy said:

Someone mentioned one of these rifles, it looks really good. https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/umarex-h-and-k-hk416-a5-aeg-rifle I don't know much about hks, but would this model be better than the other previous gun I was thinking about getting? Link to that :https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-sa-h22-edge-2-0-tm-carbine-aeg

 

I'd go for the SA-H22 over the Umarex offering from what I can see, especially with that price difference! An extra £180 for minor receiver differences and a different handguard? The SA-H22 has a programmable MOSFET (GATE Aster) where the listing for the Umarex version doesn't mention any programmability.

 

I suspect it's a MOSFET that is there only to protect trigger contacts when using 11.1v LiPo and that's it. I'd assume the extra £180 they're charging is for the HK licensing they've got on the receiver. Look at the Umarex offering against the SA-H12 One. The receivers are basically the same minus the trademarks.

 

If you dislike the handguard on the SA-H22, with the £180 saved you can easily buy a new handguard/rail and still have more than £100 left over.

 

If I were you, go for the SA-H22 if you're choosing between the two.

Edited August 20, 2023 by MrTea

[Guest Ash1093]

On 19/08/2023 at 22:13, Yashy said:

Ah my apologises.

 

I only sadly love the m4 derivatives as it’s the only one that makes me feel comfortable to look at! 

EMG F1 has been a decent platform for me, you will also have a few Bob left over to upgrade any part you deem necessary. But the gearbox it came with has been good to me non the less

[BigAl]

Go for one of the higher end Cyma”s. They are OEM for a lot of other ‘brands’ anyway.  Spend the rest on kit like decent batteries, charger snd quality mags. 

[Rogerborg]

Hmm, I hadn't spotted that the Edge 2.0s are £300 and up now.  That's harder to justify when Double Eagles come in at £100 less (albeit in polymer) with a decent fire control system.

 

That said, if you have the budget, the Edge 2.0s will probably be fine, they've got that ASTER swagger, and they're in stock.  You could spend months trying to decide between M4s / 416s based on largely imaginary differences, while prices keep rising and they keep going in and out of stock.

[RostokMcSpoons]

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Hmm, I hadn't spotted that the Edge 2.0s are £300 and up now.  That's harder to justify when Double Eagles come in at £100 less (albeit in polymer) with a decent fire control system.

 

Metal handguard version still available for £189 from our favourite retailer

 

https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/double-eagle-m906c-ar15-rifle-with-falcon-system-in-black.html

 

Or the longer version with the better crane stock fitted... £229

 

https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/double-eagle-m908a-ar15-rifle-with-falcon-system-in-black.html

 

Patrolbase have the polymer gat in stock for a sensible £160 again

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/double-eagle-m904g-honey-badger-w-fire-control-system-edition?pv=13200

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Dan Robinson]

17 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Patrolbase have the polymer gat in stock for a sensible £160 again

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/double-eagle-m904g-honey-badger-w-fire-control-system-edition?pv=13200

 

 

Jeepers - that's gone up another tenner since I bought it.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/double-eagle-m904g-honey-badger-w-fire-control-system-edition?pv=13200

 

The £20 more for the M904E, and a proper buffer tube, is worth it

[Tackle]

2 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

Metal handguard version still available for £189 from our favourite retailer

 

https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/double-eagle-m906c-ar15-rifle-with-falcon-system-in-black.html

 

Or the longer version with the better crane stock fitted... £229

 

https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/double-eagle-m908a-ar15-rifle-with-falcon-system-in-black.html

 

Patrolbase have the polymer gat in stock for a sensible £160 again

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/double-eagle-m904g-honey-badger-w-fire-control-system-edition?pv=13200

 

That's what I'm talking about, op could have matching long & short gats for his budget. 

I'd be all over that👍

[Yashy]

12 hours ago, BigAl said:

Go for one of the higher end Cyma”s. They are OEM for a lot of other ‘brands’ anyway.  Spend the rest on kit like decent batteries, charger snd quality mags. 

any links/recommendations? don't know much about cyma.

10 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Hmm, I hadn't spotted that the Edge 2.0s are £300 and up now.  That's harder to justify when Double Eagles come in at £100 less (albeit in polymer) with a decent fire control system.

 

That said, if you have the budget, the Edge 2.0s will probably be fine, they've got that ASTER swagger, and they're in stock.  You could spend months trying to decide between M4s / 416s based on largely imaginary differences, while prices keep rising and they keep going in and out of stock.

My budget is around 400-500, its so hard to actually find a weapon when everyone here just says this is good but it has these problems... 😞 its so stressfull! To be exact, its 400-500 quid on the actual gun itself, i've got batteries and stuff already.

god my adhd has gone into overdrive mode literally don't know what to get ughh!! 

Also I forgot to mention, I want it to be able to handle slightly heavy bbs (over .25g) outdoors.

[RostokMcSpoons]

You don't have to spend £500 to get the good results though.

Think positively. With money left in the bank you can buy some Gucci quality webbing, or fancy optics, or .... MOAR GUNZ

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Dan Robinson]

Totally  - 2 sub £200 guns will be much better than one fancy schmancy one that WILL go wrong one day leaving you with zero guns until its fixed.  The extra £300 won't necessarily mean it lasts longer either.

 

 

Well - that's how I've justified my ever-growing gun wall.... There's always space for one more.  

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[gavinkempsell]

I have a few rif's to chose from but most games I've played so far has been with this... https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/cyber-gun-fn-scar-aeg?pv=16775 bought it two tone and despite trying some of my other rif's I've enjoyed this more than any of the 'better' one's.

[Haru]

could always get a tm recoil and flex on everyone

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, Yashy said:

Also I forgot to mention, I want it to be able to handle slightly heavy bbs (over .25g) outdoors

 

Most gats will lift 0.28s with the simple addition of a replacement hop rubber (typically Maple Leaf), and a replacement nub (typically an Omega).

My DE with those lifts 0.32s and pushed them out to nice ranges (over 50m)

[Yashy]

14 minutes ago, Haru said:

could always get a tm recoil and flex on everyone

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/tokyo-marui-recoil-tm416d-next-gen-recoil-shock/ holy fuck 

6 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

Most gats will lift 0.28s with the simple addition of a replacement hop rubber (typically Maple Leaf), and a replacement nub (typically an Omega).

My DE with those lifts 0.32s and pushed them out to nice ranges (over 50m)

So i'm guessing this gun that is like 200 quid under my budget, seems like a good choice in the end? https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-sa-h22-edge-2-0-tm-carbine-aeg 

[Haru]

13 minutes ago, Yashy said:

 

So i'm guessing this gun that is like 200 quid under my budget, seems like a good choice in the end? https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-sa-h22-edge-2-0-tm-carbine-aeg 

hit add to cart and buy now

[RostokMcSpoons]

And perhaps add one of these to go on it

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/vortex-crossfire-red-dot-sight

 

That's a great option, with a lifetime replace-for-any-breakage warranty, that'll go with any gun. (but it has to be said that Eotech clones look particularly good on 416's.  So maybe a Holy Warrior instead)

[Leo Greer]

On 20/08/2023 at 10:17, RostokMcSpoons said:

 Thanks @Leo Greer that's a very useful review of the Novris and Krytacs.  Probably better off with the Specna over either of them then?

Specna has changed manufacturers around over the years, and unfortunately I’ve never had my hands on any of them. From personal experience contrasted with what I’ve heard, Novi/Krytac perform better more consistently. Are they bad gnus? That seems to depend on the model/OEM, and that I don’t know anything about.

 

It is worth noting that Specna/Novi are quite a bit cheaper than Krytac, which ups my recommendation significantly for either.

 

On 20/08/2023 at 13:29, MrTea said:

I thought the Krytac squeak was primarily down to the motor, not the gears? Can you just replace the stock gears (I understand they're proprietary?) with aftermarket ones or have they implemented some fuckery where it isn't that simple? I don't want to pay Prommy/Laylax £70+ for some 13:1 gears.

I've also read that the Krytac motors are a slightly different length/size than "standard" motors which makes it difficult to change but as usual the internet is full of conflicting info.

I've been on the fence about doing work to mine or selling it on but I love the aesthetic of the 'wirecutter' handguard.

The squeak is related to the height of the bevel gear in relation to the pinion. The spur gear is pushed upwards by the upraised edges of the bearing hole, which increases bevel height, and causes the sound. This is evident even on extremely high end Krytac builds using extremely nice motors. (I’ve personally tried Tienly, ASG, ZCI, Lonex, etc, and other assorted pinions transplanted onto various motors.

 

I was able to fix the issue by filing the lips of the bearing hole to lower the spur gear by a large amount. The issue then was that the shaft of the spur gear was too long and pressed on the gear for the dual selector, so then more dremel work.

 

It’s not easy to replace the stock set because of classic fitment issues. The Prommy set does work, but from what I’ve heard they’re not good quality (I don’t have personal experience), The original Krytac set are extremely durable (much better than SHS).

 

 If you want to increase the speed, I would highly recommend picking up a quality 40K-35K motor, such as Tienly, the ASG Boost 30K (actually 35K), or simply ordering one from ChiHai.

 

As far as I know, the motors are the same size as ordinary long shaft motors, but if not you can simply adjust the motor height, so the minute differences in shaft length should be irrelevant. I’m actually away from home for a while, so I can’t measure mine for you, but if you’d like I can ask around and find more info on the Prommy sets and Krytac shaft length.

[MrTea]

13 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

The squeak is related to the height of the bevel gear in relation to the pinion. The spur gear is pushed upwards by the upraised edges of the bearing hole, which increases bevel height, and causes the sound. This is evident even on extremely high end Krytac builds using extremely nice motors. (I’ve personally tried Tienly, ASG, ZCI, Lonex, etc, and other assorted pinions transplanted onto various motors.

 

I was able to fix the issue by filing the lips of the bearing hole to lower the spur gear by a large amount. The issue then was that the shaft of the spur gear was too long and pressed on the gear for the dual selector, so then more dremel work.

 

It’s not easy to replace the stock set because of classic fitment issues. The Prommy set does work, but from what I’ve heard they’re not good quality (I don’t have personal experience), The original Krytac set are extremely durable (much better than SHS).
 

As far as I know, the motors are the same size as ordinary long shaft motors, but if not you can simply adjust the motor height, so the minute differences in shaft length should be irrelevant. I’m actually away from home for a while, so I can’t measure mine for you, but if you’d like I can ask around and find more info on the Prommy sets and Krytac shaft length.

Why are Krytac like this 😂

That said, i'm happy with the performance as is and the only 'upgrade' I would potentially be looking at is a Perun Hybrid or AB++ so I can get some AB & precocking. I'd probably go the Hybrid route as I need as much space in my buffer tube as possible as that's where the battery lives in my Krytac. 18:1 gears are absolutely fine and don't need to be changed but was asking about them as I read they're proprietary but haven't actually opened it up as of yet. I still use 18:1 in my Mk18 build and it's competitive in semi & full auto with most other AEGs that aren't DSG. The difference between my 18:1 Mk18 and 13:1 MP5 makes zero difference in the real world.

[Leo Greer]

6 hours ago, MrTea said:

Why are Krytac like this 😂

That said, i'm happy with the performance as is and the only 'upgrade' I would potentially be looking at is a Perun Hybrid or AB++ so I can get some AB & precocking. I'd probably go the Hybrid route as I need as much space in my buffer tube as possible as that's where the battery lives in my Krytac. 18:1 gears are absolutely fine and don't need to be changed but was asking about them as I read they're proprietary but haven't actually opened it up as of yet. I still use 18:1 in my Mk18 build and it's competitive in semi & full auto with most other AEGs that aren't DSG. The difference between my 18:1 Mk18 and 13:1 MP5 makes zero difference in the real world.

I’m actually convinced they made the gears semi-proprietary on purpose, since there’s really no reason at all to place the gears like they did and make the spur unusual… it’s painful.

 

One note on adding a Perun Hybrid—it actually takes a fair amount of material removal to fit a Perun to their GB shells, so be ready with your dremel, but go for it!