hpa aeg or gbbr

[ghostwalker]

So i'm in the process of saving for that next big purchase.

I ended up down to Just my ICS Mars SBR for a while last year and it freaked me out only having one rif. I have my KWA erg back and working now which is great. But made me realise i probably want another rif either as a primary going forwards or to give me the security of knowing if one of my others dies im not back down to 1 rif.

 

But i cant really figure which way to go.

Another aeg as apart from wiring to deans on a new rif i have everything i need. Apart from mags. If i go that way it will probably come down to a decision between another ICS as they are so easy to get fixed, another KWA because experience has shown they are built like tanks or a new venture into the land of Tokyo Marui.

 

Or venture in the Gbbr world and that seems like its mostly a case of 'get a tm mws' if you want year round performance. Price wise that seems to be up there with a high end and probably upgraded aeg or lower end hpa rig. But it offers the realism i sought from my KWA erg.

 

Or do i go billy big balls and save even futher and get the all singing all dancing wolverine mtw hpa rig. If i did i would probably go via airsmiths and have it tuned up. I have a background in running hpa paintball from years back when i used to play sup-air paintball. So have a jist of the pros and cons of lines, dive tanks etc. This takes off the realism aspect but seems to be the direction everyone locally is heading in. I wouldn't want to try and build an hpa set up from scratch in an old aeg as soldering a deans connector is about the limit of my electrical mastery.

 

Its a hard call in my head and i have a few months to mull it over but thought i would through the thoughts your folks way.

[Impulse]

AEG - Usually what I'd advise. They work, they're generally pretty consistent (more than consistent enough before anyone chimes in with "but my HPA system is more consistent!"), they're simple to use and reliable all year round. You can carry way more ammo than you'll realistically need in a game thanks to high caps and you can also carry an Odin speedloader or something like that for in case you need a top-up, so you can easily carry thousands of BBs in a simple loadout, and even if you go solely mid-caps you're still easily capable of carrying hundreds of rounds in a few mags. All in all, there's a reason why AEGs are the mainstay of the hobby and the most common guns. The main drawbacks of AEGs are that gearboxes are technowizardry, so maintenance at that level is difficult, and they're relatively noisy, which isn't really a concern unless your playstyle is specifically designed around being a sneaky bugger. Also, if you treat LiPo batteries poorly they will catch fire pretty spectacularly, but it's very easy to avoid that through proper battery maintenance. There aren't many reasons to not go with an AEG, all things considered.

 

GBBR - The fun, but impractical platform. Will you be outgunned in every fight? Yes, unless you're in a firefight with a bolt action user. Will you curse your choice in the depths of winter when it doesn't work nearly as well? Yes. I hope you like semi-auto on this platform, because the way gas works you're going to get rapid cooldown on full-auto which means any burst longer than a second will start flying all over the place. However, ever since I squeezed through a magazine with my TM AKM, I swore myself off AEGs. They're so much fun to use and feel a lot more satisfying when you do hit people, plus when you pull of a speedy reload with all the realistic weapon manipulation stuff it feels really cool. They also tend to perform really, really well when conditions are optimal. However, mags are incredibly expensive (you'll be looking at £50+ per mag), have a very low capacity (usually around 35 BBs) and are heavy. I carry 7 spare mags for my MWS and 5 spares for my AKM and they are definitely not light...

HPA - I have a (potentially) controversial opinion on HPA; I think it's pointless outside of sniper/DMR/sneakyboi guns. Yes, it's more consistent than AEG, but in airsoft at the ranges we play it's totally negligible, plus you can tune an AEG for a fraction of the cost to be pretty much as consistent. Most of the time when playing like a normal person, you'll be squeezing off a couple of shots to hit the target, partially because we're a trigger-happy bunch and partially because airsoft guns are not precision weapons, they're air-powered muskets shooting a projectile that weighs a fraction of a gram at about a joule of energy. Also, you'll have to get used to running an air line and a tank, which you won't notice 95% of the time, but that 5% of the time is infuriating when it gets caught on stuff or tangled up in kit. It's a lot more silent than an AEG or GBBR if you put a foam-filled suppressor on it, it's like having a long mk23 with a far better trigger, way more ammo and the ability to go full-auto. I think all the benefits of HPA are fantastic for sniping and playing sneaky, but outside of that I think AEGs are just a better option.

[Krisz]

19 hours ago, ghostwalker said:

So i'm in the process of saving for that next big purchase.

I ended up down to Just my ICS Mars SBR for a while last year and it freaked me out only having one rif. I have my KWA erg back and working now which is great. But made me realise i probably want another rif either as a primary going forwards or to give me the security of knowing if one of my others dies im not back down to 1 rif.

 

But i cant really figure which way to go.

Another aeg as apart from wiring to deans on a new rif i have everything i need. Apart from mags. If i go that way it will probably come down to a decision between another ICS as they are so easy to get fixed, another KWA because experience has shown they are built like tanks or a new venture into the land of Tokyo Marui.

 

Or venture in the Gbbr world and that seems like its mostly a case of 'get a tm mws' if you want year round performance. Price wise that seems to be up there with a high end and probably upgraded aeg or lower end hpa rig. But it offers the realism i sought from my KWA erg.

 

Or do i go billy big balls and save even futher and get the all singing all dancing wolverine mtw hpa rig. If i did i would probably go via airsmiths and have it tuned up. I have a background in running hpa paintball from years back when i used to play sup-air paintball. So have a jist of the pros and cons of lines, dive tanks etc. This takes off the realism aspect but seems to be the direction everyone locally is heading in. I wouldn't want to try and build an hpa set up from scratch in an old aeg as soldering a deans connector is about the limit of my electrical mastery.

 

Its a hard call in my head and i have a few months to mull it over but thought i would through the thoughts your folks way.

I had so many AEG's that I look everything through GBBR and HPA lenses at this point.

Marui NGRS could be something different but way too expensive for my taste and it's an EBB. Used ones though. That could be a better investment if you're really into it because you pay a lot less for it.

GBBR is so unpractical on so many levels but it's really fun to use it. I would buy a VFC HK416 A5 instead of a TM MWS. Also, GBBR can be very expensive very fast. When a gas mag 55 pounds it's gonna cost you a fortune to have the same BB capacity as anyone else using AEG's. Entry level GBBR is ASG MP9 or GHK G5 or TM/VFC MP7. You may try a cheaper option first and decide if you like it or not before you spend 550 pounds on an MWS.

HPA is fantastic for indoor. You have to be really cautious outdoor because of the line. Extremely consistent, you can set up your own PSI. For extra money you can buy lightweight carbon tank if traditonal tank's weight annoys you. I think HPA is an investment you buy it once and from that point on you can use it on anything as long as you have proper adapter for it. I mean you could even buy an MWS and run it on HPA. Having the best of both world regarding reliability and consistency.

 MTW is one of the best gun money can buy right now.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Krisz

[sjhirst]

Just to throw one into the mix.

You could always go GBB with a hpa adapter. Good all year round then.

[alxndrhll]

I generally land on AEGs still being the king when it comes to actually playing games. For the most part performance is neither here nor there across the different methods of propulsion, but AEGs provide so many convenience benefits. Cheap easy to obtain mags, get a few decent batteries that fit and as long as you look after them you’re golden for years. And that’s it, maintenance costs not withstanding as it’s difficult to place where they land on a person to person basis (if you do all your own tech work versus sending them off elsewhere etc).

 

Keeping a stock of various pressure gasses gets, and stays, expensive. As good as the MWS is it has its limits with good performance once you hit certain low temperatures. It working, and it working well for a whole cold day are not equal. And as mentioned previously mags that come in around half a kilo each can take some getting used to, often resulting in further expense of having to improve the quality of your load bearing kit (which along side how expensive the gas can get is rarely mentioned).

 

HPA? Been there, done that, went back to AEGs (specifically the NGRS at the time). The line and tank were annoying to me, more so because it forces me to provision for something on my kit I don’t actually want there than anything else. The variety of CO2 stocks out there promising ‘HPA performance without the line’ are absolutely full of shit, if they actually functioned as they’re sold surely everyone would use them? CO2 simply isn’t, and never will be as stable as HPA… and that’s before you have to dick around swapping out a capsule ever half a mag, or paying an absolute fortune for 33g cartridges in the hope you can clear a mag before it puffs out. Then you’ve got the variety of HPA ‘stocks’ which are absolutely gopping.

 

I’ve used all 3. AEG is what I consistent come back to, the NGRS is great but the recoil actively irritated me to a point I sacked the platform off entirely. I love the MWS but mine is very much a back up, largely because I’m comfortable doing all the tech work on it myself. If I was anywhere near competent at teching AEGs I probably wouldn’t still have it. And the alleged ‘game changing performance’ from HPA is something I was left decidedly underwhelmed by, rendering my opinion that the biggest strength of HPA is the marketing behind them. For reference I’ve had a Fusion Engine build, 3 MTWs (2 of the OG billets and an forged) and a HPA’d Hicapa over the years. 

I guess the point I get lost in your post is what it is you’re actually after. Seems to start off that you want a back up to a back up, but then switches to maybe a primary rendering something you already have as a back up to a backup.

 

AEG because of the benefits which have been covered and you’re well aware of? GBBRs for some realism you’re after? Or HPA because… truthfully I’m struggling to find why you’re looking in that direction from your post outside of everyone else is doing it? Seems to me you need to figure out what this purchase would actually be for, before narrowing down options from there and that’s not really something anyone on here can help with.

[ghostwalker]

It's a bit of everything really.

 

Hpa just seems to be the way everyone is heading locally and that leads to a lot of getting outgunned.

 

The gbbr is a realism thing mostly.

 

Aeg I know but frankly beyond a hop up bucking and nub I'm at zero on tech ability.

 

As far as what role I want the rif to take. I don't have a defined primary as I swap back and forth between my current ics mars and kwa erg depending on my mood and game style. So a new rif could easily become a defined primary or just slip into the rotation of mood swings. 

[alxndrhll]

36 minutes ago, ghostwalker said:

It's a bit of everything really.

 

Hpa just seems to be the way everyone is heading locally and that leads to a lot of getting outgunned.

 

The gbbr is a realism thing mostly.

 

Aeg I know but frankly beyond a hop up bucking and nub I'm at zero on tech ability.

 

As far as what role I want the rif to take. I don't have a defined primary as I swap back and forth between my current ics mars and kwa erg depending on my mood and game style. So a new rif could easily become a defined primary or just slip into the rotation of mood swings. 

You kind of just repeated what you’ve said initially in an abridged form 😅. What I’m saying is you need to narrow down from there what it is you actually want.

 

If more realism is top of the list then that rules out HPA and AEGs (though may add an NGRS on there if that’s something that would scratch that itch). If it’s better performance then to better ‘compete’, while I general disagree with the sentiment that HPA outguns everything, from your perspective that’s your answer. As for the primary versus rotation thing, I generally think most just have a rotation and from there you often land on your main squeeze. So I guess that’s a moot point of consideration.

 

Tldr I closed my first post with, you need to work it down from ‘a bit of everything’ before any meaningful advice could be given on good RIFs to look at. A budget you have in mind is also useful to know, until you’ve got that figured out it’ll just be an ocean of opinions governed largely by anecdotes and financial justification cope rather than anything actually useful to you. And lord knows there’s already plenty of anecdotal shite on the ‘at some point in the future I will have an undetermined amount of money to spend on something’ topic out there already.

Edited March 10, 2023 by alxndrhll

[Wavey_Gravey]

Buy a GBBR, you will either love it or bloody hate it first time you take it out.

 

They tend to hold value, so you won’t loose much should it be hate.

[Krisz]

8 hours ago, ghostwalker said:

It's a bit of everything really.

 

Hpa just seems to be the way everyone is heading locally and that leads to a lot of getting outgunned.

 

The gbbr is a realism thing mostly.

 

Aeg I know but frankly beyond a hop up bucking and nub I'm at zero on tech ability.

 

As far as what role I want the rif to take. I don't have a defined primary as I swap back and forth between my current ics mars and kwa erg depending on my mood and game style. So a new rif could easily become a defined primary or just slip into the rotation of mood swings. 

Someone is gonna always outgun you that's outdoor for you. You can't really change on that.

Tech work is very difficult to do on an AEG first time gbbr and hpa are way less complicated and easier to maintain them. You could still buy a cheapo aeg just for learning tech work.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Krisz

[Davegolf]

If you want a new gun for realism I always run GBB pistols, they are the most satisfying of all airsoft guns imo.

I would only ever use/advise TM, all others are sub par in every aspect other than ‘got heavy metal slide’.

The TM FNX is an absolute beast out of the box - hopping silly heavy ammo out to 55-60M accurately - bog standard!

TM HK45 / USP / Glock G4 are all 50M guns.

 

Back to rifles…

They all cost the same to buy/build really when at a high level, however running costs don’t.

IMO worst to best;

 

HPA offers nothing but ROF and ball ache when utilised at full auto FPS’s.

Its best used for DMR and Sniper.

 

GBBR is fun, yes the MWS is very simple/cheap to upgrade.

It is best suited to those who take considered shots.

Good for milsims & CQB where you can bomb up more often.

But as said above makes for a very heavy load out and gas can be a pain to keep on top of.

If you want a cheaper GBBR fix the TM MP7 is the way to go, it’s loud, violent, 50M capable and down right fun!

 

Leads us to the inevitable, TM NGRS.

Ive built a lot of guns, if you want the most performance in all aspects.

Even if you ran a pretty stock NGRS you’ll be impressed, just change the nub and fit a nice 6.03 barrel.

 

If you do any more than that you need to go the whole hog inside really.

 

I don’t know if you have pistols, but if you don’t and you want the best performing setup in 99% of scenarios with the most enjoyment run a TM pistol and NGRS 😉

 

Do let us know what you decide 😁

[Krisz]

16 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

If you want a new gun for realism I always run GBB pistols, they are the most satisfying of all airsoft guns imo.

I would only ever use/advise TM, all others are sub par in every aspect other than ‘got heavy metal slide’.

The TM FNX is an absolute beast out of the box - hopping silly heavy ammo out to 55-60M accurately - bog standard!

TM HK45 / USP / Glock G4 are all 50M guns.

 

Back to rifles…

They all cost the same to buy/build really when at a high level, however running costs don’t.

IMO worst to best;

 

HPA offers nothing but ROF and ball ache when utilised at full auto FPS’s.

Its best used for DMR and Sniper.

 

GBBR is fun, yes the MWS is very simple/cheap to upgrade.

It is best suited to those who take considered shots.

Good for milsims & CQB where you can bomb up more often.

But as said above makes for a very heavy load out and gas can be a pain to keep on top of.

If you want a cheaper GBBR fix the TM MP7 is the way to go, it’s loud, violent, 50M capable and down right fun!

 

Leads us to the inevitable, TM NGRS.

Ive built a lot of guns, if you want the most performance in all aspects.

Even if you ran a pretty stock NGRS you’ll be impressed, just change the nub and fit a nice 6.03 barrel.

 

If you do any more than that you need to go the whole hog inside really.

 

I don’t know if you have pistols, but if you don’t and you want the best performing setup in 99% of scenarios with the most enjoyment run a TM pistol and NGRS 😉

 

Do let us know what you decide 😁

 

HPA is more than just ROF. Consistency on each shot. You can make it very quiet using foamed suppressors. 

 

I don't know why people keep saying only for sniper/dmr when you can use it on everything as long as you have got hpa engine in your gun or a mag adapter.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Krisz

[Davegolf]

An AEG can easily be as consistent as HPA.

AEGs can be as quiet as HPA if implemented in bullpups.

But this is a moot point really as using HPA in an assault role doesn’t really go hand in hand with mouse fart gun report.

 

You are missing my point, yes you can HPA anything, but the benefits of the platform don’t really come to bear until your up at 400+.

PS I’m not hating on HPA, I have run many in the past and still have a Kythera.

Also when I’m talking about NGRS I’m specifically meaning the M4 / 416 / 417 / Scar variants

[Krisz]

1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

An AEG can easily be as consistent as HPA.

AEGs can be as quiet as HPA if implemented in bullpups.

But this is a moot point really as using HPA in an assault role doesn’t really go hand in hand with mouse fart gun report.

 

You are missing my point, yes you can HPA anything, but the benefits of the platform don’t really come to bear until your up at 400+.

PS I’m not hating on HPA, I have run many in the past and still have a Kythera.

Also when I’m talking about NGRS I’m specifically meaning the M4 / 416 / 417 / Scar variant

 

It's personal preference like everything else. I use hpa on a gas pistol right now and far superior to any other gas because it's consistent which makes my gun reliable. But I main a pistol not an AEG.

 

Would never go back to gg coz it's a struggle when your gun doesn't perform at all in winter or when you hit those sub 10 degrees. In summer I'm happy to use gg because no tank nor line.

 

It's seem to me that some people love to shit on HPA for unkown reasons. HPA is always associated with wanker speedsofters and cheater cunts but reality is very different as always. Generally speaking.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Krisz

[Impulse]

11 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

HPA? Been there, done that, went back to AEGs (specifically the NGRS at the time). The line and tank were annoying to me, more so because it forces me to provision for something on my kit I don’t actually want there than anything else. The variety of CO2 stocks out there promising ‘HPA performance without the line’ are absolutely full of shit, if they actually functioned as they’re sold surely everyone would use them? CO2 simply isn’t, and never will be as stable as HPA… and that’s before you have to dick around swapping out a capsule ever half a mag, or paying an absolute fortune for 33g cartridges in the hope you can clear a mag before it puffs out. Then you’ve got the variety of HPA ‘stocks’ which are absolutely gopping.

 

HPA stocks are another thing that brings me back to HPA being better for snipers/DMRs/sneakyboi guns. I think what a lot of people who intend on using full-auto fail to understand about a 13ci tank is that a 13ci tank isn't going to give you a huge number of shots. Running a HPA stock on full-auto or even trigger-happy semi-auto is going to run out of air VERY quickly

 

1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

An AEG can easily be as consistent as HPA.

AEGs can be as quiet as HPA if implemented in bullpups.

But this is a moot point really as using HPA in an assault role doesn’t really go hand in hand with mouse fart gun report.

 

These are my thoughts exactly. I can't tech AEGs (I tried and I screwed up two of my guns...), but ever since I got my two AEGs back from my local tech I don't care much for HPA in terms of consistency. Only reason I use HPA is the mouse fart quietness (and effortless bolt pull on my VSR) on a pair of sniper rifles, one at 2.3J and one as a 1.1J semi-auto build.

 

Back to the original post and reading other responses here, I think an NGRS might be a great next investment for you. It's reliable, doesn't need any modifications (but a hop up change can help) and will work all year round without issue, plus it's a little different to your other AEGs with the recoil and the fact it stops shooting when empty and requires the bolt release to be pressed after a mag change from empty.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Impulse

[Alimcd]

I’ve completely converted to HPA powered GBBR’s these days. Magwell converters allow for use of AEG magazines and VSR hop conversions allow for amazing ability to lift heavy pellets accurately.

 

I’ve converted a few GBBR’s for each role - WA M4 for short range/mobile, KC02’s for DMR or sniper roles. 
 

For me, it’s the best compromise of all three options. I get HPA consistency, AEG ammo capacity and GBBR realism. Occasionally I get outdone by a speedboi running a Kythera at 2875rps but I always walk back to respawn with a smile on my face.

 

Some people consider magwell adaptors to be the height of heresy, I don’t think these look too bad.

[ghostwalker]

I think in my own around about way I have (mostly by writing and reading responses) got my own answer of another aeg.

 

I have most of the required gear already one etc.

I get the bolt stop and recoil from the kwa erg. Just feel it lacks a little of the responsiveness I get from my ics mars.

So I think I need to find the middle ground of recoil for realism and responsiveness of thr electronics I get out of the ics mars.