TM still current in todays market?

[Swarfeye]

Hi all, 5-6 years ago I used to Airsoft with a TM Sopmod and they were rated one of the best, next tier up would be the PTW’s. 

Are they still classed as one of the best? There are a few makes around since I last looked. Interested in the EBB M4 Variants and got my eye on the TM URG-I 11.5" SOPMOD.

Thanks

Dan

[SBoardley]

Tm ngrs m4 system is still a worth while investment. My main niggle is that the box can lock up on semi. This can be sorted by installing a mosfet, though I have still encountered this after installing one, but if you don’t know what your doing, this can cost another £250. I have wondered if a more torquing motor would sort this?

Kwa do a nice series but I believe they have withdrawn the stop on empty feature, but have heard they are more robust than TM.  
The other niggle is that the “recoil” on these is not really recoil. Effectively the feedback is the opposite to “ recoil” but precooking can help with this, but again you need and expensive mosfet and the means and knowledge to install and program.
Most other ebb are just a mock reciprocating bolt with no noticeable feedback. 
I don’t really use my ngrs, it’s an expensive backup, as I prefer my gbbrs; if you are interested in these, look at the TM mws. Very reliable platform. 

[Emergencychimps]

I think it's a complicated answer and entirely depends on what you're happy with. 

 

Other brands used to be significantly behind tm for quality and consistency. That's not the case anymore from what I understand for aegs. So if range, trigger response and rof if what you're after you can get the same (or better for less, sometimes a lot less) and this is out of the box. You'll miss some features (recoil, bolt stop). 

 

Gas rifles have improved (tm mws and ghk) so if you're after realism (recoil, bolt stop, not running high round count mags). Then for around a similar total cost these are now viable. 

 

The ngrs range haven't really progressed beyond the introduction of MOSFETs. Upgrade parts are available but often only as good as the person/tech doing it. But upgrading tms has become its own industry with high prices and I question how much improvement the expensive upgrades bring....is it actually value for money? I think to make them competitive they need some upgrades, a slight increase in fps and a MOSFET makes them very tasty. 

 

Gbls das is the latest at ptw type prices, reciprocating bolt, recoil, bolt stop, high precision engineering, all the good stuff of gas without a lot of the drawbacks, eye watering prices but my god do they feel nice.  

 

Ptws still exist but replacements and parts are harder to source and pricey. Nowhere near as common ad they were.

 

If you must have the bolt lock feature, some sort of recoil etc then I think they provide a great base for long term use. I've been running my 2 for over 6 years. I get the impression the cheaper aegs are more short term use, use, when they start wearing or fancy a change then just buy more.

[Swarfeye]

Thank you, so GBB are better now? In UK temperatures? I had a G&G cheapo and it expelled gas after a couple of shots.

 

Mainly would like bolt lock and recoil as I prefer realism to anything. The Sopmod had that and out ranged everything it was up against, but then that had tight bore etc. 

[TierOne]

2 hours ago, Swarfeye said:

Thank you, so GBB are better now? In UK temperatures? I had a G&G cheapo and it expelled gas after a couple of shots.

 

Mainly would like bolt lock and recoil as I prefer realism to anything. The Sopmod had that and out ranged everything it was up against, but then that had tight bore etc. 

Yes, gbbr's are much better now. The TM MWS out of the box will outshoot a recoil and is fine in most weathers. When you start getting down to 0 degrees you can use stronger gasses, but providing you're using semi, I'll give up in the temperature before the gun does.

 

most new VFC stuff and some WE gbbrs are also decent. 

[Krisz]

AEG wise? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong I love Marui but in 2022 you can spend less or same and get better internals than a very old design Marui (I mean mainly etu and/or mosfet). Marui NGRS could be an exception but they are extremely expensive and in my opinion they are just gimmick (EBB).

 

New MP5A5 is lovely but rrp is like 550 and you didn't even bought exra mags for it. At that price point you could invest into HPA and you set your own FPS and trigger response is amazing compared to a stock electric gun. Line is immersion breaking but you can't have everything.

I tried to use green gas around 10 degrees this year late September and my metal slided pistol did everything but shooting. Venting, dry firing, not cycling so I can't really see how a GBBR would be any better in a similar scenario. We can't change that how gas doesn't work in cold weather.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Krisz

[TierOne]

1 minute ago, Krisz said:

AEG wise? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong I love Marui but in 2022 you can spend less or same and get better internals than a very old design Marui (I mean mainly etu and/or mosfet). Marui NGRS could be an exception but they are extremely expensive and in my opinion they are just gimmick.

 

New MP5A5 is lovely but rrp is like 550 and you didn't even bought exra mags for it. At that price point you could invest into HPA and you set your own FPS and trigger response is amazing compared to a stock electric gun. Line is immersion breaking but you can't have everything.

I tried to use green gas around 10 degrees this year late September and my pistol did everything but shooting. Venting, dry firing, not cycling so I can't really see how a GBBR would be any better in a similar scenario. We can't change that how gas doesn't work in cold weather.

 

one thing TM do very well is they make models of actual guns. Everything now is all weird skeletonized receivers and guns that barely resemble what they're supposed to be with hoses coming out of the bottom. If you want actual replicas of military firearms, TM and VFC are one of the few that do a decent job of it. 

 

I've ran TM pistols (Usp 9mm fullsize) on propane in the snow. They work just fine if you're not trying to shoot them like a full auto pistol. Same with GBBR's. I only run gbbrs now, with the occasional stint with a built TM recoil if i find one cheap enough to be worth doing a build with. 

[Impulse]

21 minutes ago, Swarfeye said:

Thank you, so GBB are better now? In UK temperatures? I had a G&G cheapo and it expelled gas after a couple of shots.

 

Mainly would like bolt lock and recoil as I prefer realism to anything. The Sopmod had that and out ranged everything it was up against, but then that had tight bore etc. 

 

GBBs are generally usable all year round outside of the absolute pit of winter. If it's over 5 celcius, a TM GBB pistol on green gas will still cycle through most of the magazine, same with their GBBRs (at least I can attest to the MWS and AKM as those are the two I have). Under 5 celcius and even TM magic will struggle and I don't want to risk running red or black gas through them as they could explode. If you're after realism, you need to go gas instead of AEG, but AEGs are easier to use and far more reliable. You can always go NGRS for the middle-road between realism (pseudo bolt stop, 30rd magazines and a little recoil) and ease of use (don't have to worry about weather or gas mags weighing a lot)

 

For AEGs, I don't think TM is worth it unless you want an NGRS. Clone brands are pretty damn good these days and you spend a fraction of the price, meaning you then have spare funds to tune the internals with aftermarket parts.

[Krisz]

13 minutes ago, TierOne said:

one thing TM do very well is they make models of actual guns. Everything now is all weird skeletonized receivers and guns that barely resemble what they're supposed to be with hoses coming out of the bottom. If you want actual replicas of military firearms, TM and VFC are one of the few that do a decent job of it. 

 

I've ran TM pistols (Usp 9mm fullsize) on propane in the snow. They work just fine if you're not trying to shoot them like a full auto pistol. Same with GBBR's. I only run gbbrs now, with the occasional stint with a built TM recoil if i find one cheap enough to be worth doing a build with. 

Well some TM's are even actually 1:1 to the real steel version (if it does matter). I have no clue regarding VFC I'm gonna be honest.

 

I don't like HPA in general but I bougth a kit anyway because I had enough regarding green gas in the cold. I wouldn't run green gas on a plastic slided pistol to be honest (few magazines are okay on a full day but defo not as a main). I'm not saying your pistol is gonna explode the next time you use it but that slide isn't manufactured for 120 psi that's for sure. If you don't mind to put a metal slide on it in the future than ofc full send it why not. Longevity wise a bit weaker gas would be better probably. To my knowledge gen4 Glock 17/Glock 19 is a bit more rugged internally so it takes more time to break it on gg.

[EvilMonkee]

For the price of a NGRS, I would pick up a MWS or AKM GBBR instead.  Much more enjoyable than the experience of an NGRS

[Swarfeye]

Thank you for the reply’s. It’s nice to hear GBBR are better now and people are actually swapping for them. I will take a look at the MWS line etc.

 

Thanks again

 

Dan

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Swarfeye said:

Thank you for the reply’s. It’s nice to hear GBBR are better now and people are actually swapping for them. I will take a look at the MWS line etc.

 

Thanks again

 

Dan

There is huge thread here about the MWS, it’s a glorious rifle if you like M4’s

[sonofsammo]

44 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

There is huge thread here about the MWS, it’s a glorious rifle if you like M4’s

It's pretty damn good, even if you hate em 🤣

[Ahab]

Myself I can only speak for TM SCAR-L NGRS, as I left regular TM AEGs behind years ago and went with different brands. 

NGRS is fun and I especially appreciate the more realistic manual of arms without the hassle of dealing with gas mags. That's about it.

 

Modern TM charges stupid money for well... "subpar" quality exterior finish (in case of SCAR-L it's just laughably bad and wobbly ABS plastic, feels like made out of B&Q plastic pipes) and not so great out of the box performance. I've seen and handled  VFC SCAR alongside TM SCARL and difference in built quality is just mind blowing.

The fact that you have to spend more money to upgrade it with special NGRS TITAN, a bunch of (not cheap) internal parts just to get it to a skirmish standard is pathetic for the cost.  Total cost brings you closer to already beefed up GBBR.

 

I was lucky enough to get mine second hand from a friend with all the upgrades already done for a reasonable price, but to be fair I'm still trying to decide if I didn't waste my money.  

 

That is just my experience with my replica, though majority of Youtube reviewers laud TM NGRS as the best there is om the market, but fail to mention many of its shortcomings. 

 

Modern market is full of well made and affordable airsoft replicas. Marui as a brand still has place in the market with their innovations for the hobby, like the ZET system for GBBRs, bolt release and cut off systems in the NGRS or the newer versions of the gas pistols. Its the mind boggling price system and crap materials they use for the externals of their replicas that prevents them from still  being the top dogs.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Ahab

[alxndrhll]

24 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Myself I can only speak for TM SCAR-L NGRS, as I left regular TM AEGs behind years ago and went with different brands. 

NGRS is fun and I especially appreciate the more realistic manual of arms without the hassle of dealing with gas mags. That's about it.

 

Modern TM charges stupid money for well... "subpar" quality exterior finish (in case of SCAR-L it's just laughably bad and wobbly ABS plastic, feels like made out of B&Q plastic pipes) and not so great out of the box performance. I've seen and handled  VFC SCAR alongside TM SCARL and difference in built quality is just mind blowing.

The fact that you have to spend more money to upgrade it with special NGRS TITAN, a bunch of (not cheap) internal parts just to get it to a skirmish standard is pathetic for the cost.  Total cost brings you closer to already beefed up GBBR.

 

I was lucky enough to get mine second hand from a friend with all the upgrades already done for a reasonable price, but to be fair I'm still trying to decide if I didn't waste my money.  

 

That is just my experience with my replica, though majority of Youtube reviewers laud TM NGRS as the best there is om the market, but fail to mention many of its shortcomings. 

 

Modern market is full of well made and affordable airsoft replicas. Marui as a brand still has place in the market with their innovations for the hobby, like the ZET system for GBBRs, bolt release and cut off systems in the NGRS or the newer versions of the gas pistols. Its the mind boggling price system and crap materials they use for the externals of their replicas that prevents them from still  being the top dogs.

 

TLDR the pricing is fuck all to do with TM, they don't export outside of Japan so anything sold outside of Japan is grey import with the prices set by the retailers that buy them from whoever decided to import them. At least that'#s as I've understood it for as long as I can remember, could be one fo those 'things airsofters say but isn't actually the case' but I feel like it's reguritated enough by folks I'd consider a reliable source of information to at least hold some degree of truth.

 

I think the AR NGRS that I have/have had have all been decent externally but I tend to agree that the cost versus benefit is probably a touch out of ahnd for most at this point. I've hit a point with the system where I actively dislike the 'recoil' because the sound is irritating, having used systems with it for so long I imagine I'd struggle to play without some sort of 'bolt stop'.

[BigStew]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

 

The fact that you have to spend more money to upgrade it with special NGRS TITAN, a bunch of (not cheap) internal parts just to get it to a skirmish standard is pathetic for the cost.  Total cost brings you closer to already beefed up GBBR.

 

 

Hate being a TM fan boy but where are you getting this from? i have ran an H Scar, L Scar and currently run a 416 which were all stock other than changing out the battery connector they could all get accurate consistent hits a 60m on .28g BBs. most of my team mates run stock M4s with similar results. hell i could get 40ish metres with my AA-12 how is that not skirmish standard? i play wood lands most engagement distances are sub 40m. 23 years of playing I have run stock guns until till they broke (general sold them as bone yard rather fix them and bought something new and shiny) and being out ranged is rarely the reason i get taken out. Are TM expensive yes are there guns with better externals yes are there guns that offer the same functionality as a NRG with the same QC and reliability? i can't think of any LTC no VFC no.

[hunter511]

As above.

 

Ive got 3 NGRS and have had multiple others from when they were first released currently including a 416 fitted with BTC spectre and full prommy bits internally.

 

The one that gets used most is the bog stock one. If you need 349.999999fps to play competitively then maybe its time to look at your skillset. Throw good quality .25s in a bog stock NGRS and I guarantee you will have better range, accuracy and consistancy than at least 75% of the other people on site.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by hunter511

[kasaran]

4 hours ago, Ahab said:

Myself I can only speak for TM SCAR-L NGRS, ~

 

~ not so great out of the box performance. I've seen and handled  VFC SCAR alongside TM SCARL and difference in built quality is just mind blowing.

 

The fact that you have to spend more money to upgrade it with special NGRS TITAN, a bunch of (not cheap) internal parts just to get it to a skirmish standard is pathetic for the cost.  Total cost brings you closer to already beefed up GBBR.

 

I was lucky enough to get mine second hand from a friend with all the upgrades already done for a reasonable price, but to be fair I'm still trying to decide if I didn't waste my money.  

 

 

 

 

So from this, your scar L was second hand and also been upgraded by someone. so you don't know what their 'stock' performance is.

 

Whomever opened the gearbox and started chasing fps let all the TM pixie dust out....

 

My scar H ngrs fires absolutely fine, as does my mk18 ngrs. Both absolutely stock (even with stock connectors and proprietary batteries). 

 

The lower FPS has never made me feel at a disadvantage... They often match or exceeding others on the field.  Both being a woodland site player.

 

Very much a fun intermediate between AEG performance and some GBB like operations

[Adolf Hamster]

Remember kids, fps doesnt matter and tm's will outrange anything on the field only if you dont mess with the internals.

 

Except the vsr, apparently.....

 

Meanwhile there's nothing special about tm's range, it's not pixie dust it's just matched parts manufactured to work well together.

 

Theres also no secret to why they fall over when you start messing with them for the same reason any pew falls flat on its face if the teching approach is just shove in shiny parts and expect it to work better.

[BigStew]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Remember kids, fps doesnt matter and tm's will outrange anything on the field only if you dont mess with the internals.

 

Except the vsr, apparently.....

 

Meanwhile there's nothing special about tm's range, it's not pixie dust it's just matched parts manufactured to work well together.

 

Theres also no secret to why they fall over when you start messing with them for the same reason any pew falls flat on its face if the teching approach is just shove in shiny parts and expect it to work better.

i think most airsofter never bother to set their guns or clean them. 20 mins at a range with a few different weight of BBs to set the hop and most stock guns will shoot 50m.

though legitimately CYMA M14 will out range most guns out the box

Edited January 8, 2023 by BigStew