New Game Scenarios

[StumpyOG]

Hi all.

 

Having been an airsofter for 10+ years, I have played at various sites round the UK, woodland, urban, Ex MOD, cheap 'n' nasty etc etc etc.

The game scenarios get very "samey" after a while. Capture the flag, fallback, domination, main objective etc etc.

 

I've been working on a project to mix things up!

 

We've all played the VIP game mode. The VIP has to be found and rescued. The only clues given are "illuminous armbands" & it's being played in this area.

 

If you could play VIP, Dirty Bomb, Get the Asset and have active, real-time tracking, would you enjoy it? 

[Shamal]

Real time tracking would put me in same spot for two hours 😆😆

 

Regards 

[colinjallen]

What does real-time tracking bring to the game?  How do you see it being used and enhancing game play?

[StumpyOG]

 

45 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Real time tracking would put me in same spot for two hours 😆😆

 

Regards 

Unsure why you would be in the same spot for 2 hours on your standard walk-on site when game last 1 hour max.

43 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

What does real-time tracking bring to the game?  How do you see it being used and enhancing game play?

On a larger site the "package" can be mobile. This means strategy has to change as the "package" moves.

The RTT also means a RT timer (clock) can be set. If The package is configured to work with an armed/disarmed system, it adds an extra dynamic to the existing "stop John with the illuminous arm bands getting from X to Y"  

Edited January 30, 2022 by StumpyOG

[MAX DICKER]

Been playing 13 years. Only ever played 1 scenario; 'Shoot Dudes'

 

Game briefings are basically white noise to me.

[Adolf Hamster]

i mean i can see how having the vip/target/macguffin doing a sort of patrol route around the site, and letting the attacking team pick when/where and how they want to go about it rather than being forced into a particular ambush location the defenders could predict (defeating the whole point of an ambush scenario).

 

the tricky thing is gonna be how are you doing this tracking? whilst a phone app would work in theory, lot of folk don't take their phones on-site in case they get smashed (and ofc the usual data/signal availability) and presumably handing out site devices would be too expensive.

 

unless you're doing it with a few select folks who are in charge of knowing the packages location.

[StumpyOG]

2 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

Been playing 13 years. Only ever played 1 scenario; 'Shoot Dudes'

 

Game briefings are basically white noise to me.

I think that's the norm for most players above a certain age. If you had a the scenario of "track this" presented, would you enjoy it?

[PopRocket123]

I do want to try a casevac scenario. With dummies that are a set of stuffed overalls with a balloon head. One team needs to retrieve all the dummies, the other needs to capture or kill them. I know it's just more retrieve the thing but I think making the objective more difficult to carry solo and vulnerable to the enemy would really change it up. 

[MAX DICKER]

1 minute ago, StumpyOG said:

I think that's the norm for most players above a certain age. If you had a the scenario of "track this" presented, would you enjoy it?

Personally, I'd just bumble around shooting at the enemy, and maybe accidentally achieve an objective.

 

That being said, i know a lot of players enjoy interesting scenarios. The trick, I believe,  is balancing interesting gameplay with simplicity. It's easier to herd cats than to get airsofters to act cohesively.

[StumpyOG]

3 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i mean i can see how having the vip/target/macguffin doing a sort of patrol route around the site, and letting the attacking team pick when/where and how they want to go about it rather than being forced into a particular ambush location the defenders could predict (defeating the whole point of an ambush scenario).

 

the tricky thing is gonna be how are you doing this tracking? whilst a phone app would work in theory, lot of folk don't take their phones on-site in case they get smashed (and ofc the usual data/signal availability) and presumably handing out site devices would be too expensive.

 

unless you're doing it with a few select folks who are in charge of knowing the packages location.

A complete kit would be provided for a single price point. The kit would contain a "target" unit (the unit being tracked), a tracking device ( additional tracking units available at additional cost), charger for both units & full instructions. To quote an earlier reply, I am working on this in my own time and fully understand the cost implications. Feel free to message me directly for more info.

 

2 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

I do want to try a casevac scenario. With dummies that are a set of stuffed overalls with a balloon head. One team needs to retrieve all the dummies, the other needs to capture or kill them. I know it's just more retrieve the thing but I think making the objective more difficult to carry solo and vulnerable to the enemy would really change it up. 

You could incorporate my idea into this scenario. Please DM me to discuss further

4 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

Personally, I'd just bumble around shooting at the enemy, and maybe accidentally achieve an objective.

 

That being said, i know a lot of players enjoy interesting scenarios. The trick, I believe,  is balancing interesting gameplay with simplicity. It's easier to herd cats than to get airsofters to act cohesively.

A full colour tracking device would be provided. You can track the "target" and hunt it down. By all means use the "shoot in that general direction and I will hit something technique". If you have a high enough ROF & enough HI-Cap mags, it might work.

[Adolf Hamster]

8 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

I do want to try a casevac scenario. With dummies that are a set of stuffed overalls with a balloon head. One team needs to retrieve all the dummies, the other needs to capture or kill them. I know it's just more retrieve the thing but I think making the objective more difficult to carry solo and vulnerable to the enemy would really change it up. 

 

i've played a couple of scenarios like this. the biggest obstacle is having a respawn system that's balanced enough that the defending team isn't being completely swamped, but also not just a 1-life rule that turns it into "kill the other guys first then get the objective"

 

7 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

The trick, I believe,  is balancing interesting gameplay with simplicity. It's easier to herd cats than to get airsofters to act cohesively.

 

quoted for truth, for the most part on your average skirmish day "bad dudes over there, respawns thataway, go shoot" is about as complex a ruleset as can be managed.

 

an awful lot of the game types i've played that have tried to make it more complex either descend into a saltfest (usually when limited boundaries or more complex respawn rules (more complex than go to the flag that is) are involved) or revert to tdm.

 

6 minutes ago, StumpyOG said:

A complete kit would be provided for a single price point. The kit would contain a "target" unit (the unit being tracked), a tracking device ( additional tracking units available at additional cost), charger for both units & full instructions. To quote an earlier reply, I am working on this in my own time and fully understand the cost implications. Feel free to message me directly for more info.

 

ahh so it's a dedicated product.

 

i mean i can see the allure, but sadly i think it's one of those ideas everyone will agree is a neat idea and then proceed to not buy for themselves, usually for fear of it being useless if it doesn't catch on.

[Shamal]

49 minutes ago, StumpyOG said:

 

Unsure why you would be in the same spot for 2 hours on your standard walk-on site when game last 1 hour max.

On a larger site the "package" can be mobile. This means strategy has to change as the "package" moves.

The RTT also means a RT timer (clock) can be set. If The package is configured to work with an armed/disarmed system, it adds an extra dynamic to the existing "stop John with the illuminous arm bands getting from X to Y"  

Just a light hearted comment dude. Good luck selling your idea.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, StumpyOG said:

If you could play VIP, Dirty Bomb, Get the Asset and have active, real-time tracking, would you enjoy it? 

 

No, I absolutely loathe it.

 

Because it always, always, turns into a game of "paying players versus site owners mates", where you get slotted over and over and over again by some chuckleheads that you think are marshals, but are actually untagged players who are enjoying an entirely different set of rules than everybody else.

 

You can dress it up with any meta that you like, but this is what actually happens, every time.

 

I hope this has been helpful to you, and that you won't just "yeahbut, my special rules are more specialier than everybody else's special rules."

 

Shock me, say something other than "yeahbut".

 

[UPDATE]

Are you shilling this "tracker" device.

[MAX DICKER]

8 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

[UPDATE]

Are you shilling this "tracker" device.

Now THAT'S a blast from the past

[Rogerborg]

1 minute ago, MAX DICKER said:

Now THAT'S a blast from the past

 

But every so often, a hero emerges who thinks that all airsoft needs is for everybody to buy the same trinket, then everybody can enjoy the benefits of everybody playing with the same trinket that everybody has bought.

[StumpyOG]

5 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

But every so often, a hero emerges who thinks that all airsoft needs is for everybody to buy the same trinket, then everybody can enjoy the benefits of everybody playing with the same trinket that everybody has bought.

"I WILL BUY SCOPE COZ SCOPE MAKE ME SHOOT FURTHER!" By all means follow the fad & buy a scope, crack on. I hear exactly what you're saying. 

[Rogerborg]

2 minutes ago, StumpyOG said:

"I WILL BUY SCOPE COZ SCOPE MAKE ME SHOOT FURTHER!" By all means follow the fad & buy a scope, crack on. I hear exactly what you're saying. 

 

You didn't answer the question of whether you're trying to flog that "tracker" device.

 

I'll go ahead and assume that you are.

 

Maybe you need to find a less experienced forum.

 

Crack on, chap.

[StumpyOG]

To cut a long story short. I am thinking of making a tracking system for airsoft. A modular target unit 

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

 

You didn't answer the question of whether you're trying to flog that "tracker" device.

 

I'll go ahead and assume that you are.

 

Maybe you need to find a less experienced forum.

 

Crack on, chap.

Sorry, I thought I had answered that question. I am not trying to flog anything. I have an idea and the means to produce a version for testing. I can, & will apply for patents.

[Tommikka]

For a ‘more interesting’ scenario it takes the game author to have ideas rather than objects that enhance the game 

 

When I began (in paintball) I began with basic rental games under which the site staff would run basic missions but apply some tweaks here and there for the returning customers.  I looked around and was introduced to scenario paintball, this was in the heyday of UK scenario just in time for a boom in games across the country run by players for players.  Most scenarios would have ‘special’ props which could be a few pipes and a circuit board to be found and ‘assembled’ into a super weapon 

As a team we decided that we could do it as well as the others and put on our own games, we quickly got into building working props in preference to pretend props.

Flashing lights, sounds etc just made a prettier prop than slotting some pipes together or glow sticks in water bottles with coloured water but still needed an overall scenario that had to be simple enough to understand, complex enough to gather some interest and to have different angles for different players wants - there are always those who want to just shoot, those who want to search in bushes and those who want to solve a puzzle, and those are the hard core scenarioists LARPing with guns

We are known for our events and devices, but our ‘best’ loved ones perform an actual function which contributes to enhancing the game experience - for example a Hollywood style bomb device that triggers remote pyro, we used one in a game letting teams acquire the device and set it against other teams in a 3 faction game - our tech guy was rushing back and forth as teams would set alliances to capture a key location at a key time for points and then double cross each other by settting the device and detonating to ‘destroy’ the location and eliminate their temporary allies for bonus points 

 

Airsoft has a loose match with scenario paintball, but the typical game on site is a crossover between rental, site regular, scenarioist/LARPist and cosplayer just dressing up 

When we began to run games for airsoft a few players said they wanted more complex games than the basic site ones, but then many quickly disliked the full mission - they talked a good game but just wanted a dressed up gun fight 

 

Real time tracking is a possibility, but introduces technological problems of making sure it works and is reliable.  
Our tech guy won’t touch it with a barge pole, they don’t meet his perfectionist standards

We’ll plant tracking devices in some devices / props but they are to aid us in knowing where they are 

Theres also a recent video by another tech guy in a different industry - he demonstrates using a real time tracker, but as he goes on the reliability gets worse and worse giving false readings which he begins to resolve with error correction but they repeat inconsistently and give false positioning 

 

A commercial GPS device will do the job, as long as you can get good enough signals and can pass that information on to a receiver.  
 

 

If there’s a device to be made and sold then there’s a limited customer base (sites / event organisers) and those customers are limited down to those who can apply a device into a good game, then slice them right down to those who don’t have a geek on call who can make something good enough putting their time into it for the fun of solving a problem and making some code (plus copy / paste from free online demos with a little tweak)

I spent some of lockdown one working out the hidden menus from an undocumented commercial ‘device’ and building a series of custom devices plus my own code drawing from a a few free online examples and my rewriting to my own game plans.
 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

8 minutes ago, StumpyOG said:

I can, & will apply for patents.

 

And I'm sure you will be more successful than all the people who have "applied for patents" on all their airsoft innovations that require everybody to buy one in order for everybody to enjoy one.

 

Don't PM me, we're not friends. You're just another fantasist.

[StumpyOG]

8 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

For a ‘more interesting’ scenario it takes the game author to have ideas rather than objects that enhance the game 

 

When I began (in paintball) I began with basic rental games under which the site staff would run basic missions but apply some tweaks here and there for the returning customers.  I looked around and was introduced to scenario paintball, this was in the heyday of UK scenario just in time for a boom in games across the country run by players for players.  Most scenarios would have ‘special’ props which could be a few pipes and a circuit board to be found and ‘assembled’ into a super weapon 

As a team we decided that we could do it as well as the others and put on our own games, we quickly got into building working props in preference to pretend props.

Flashing lights, sounds etc just made a prettier prop than slotting some pipes together or glow sticks in water bottles with coloured water but still needed an overall scenario that had to be simple enough to understand, complex enough to gather some interest and to have different angles for different players wants - there are always those who want to just shoot, those who want to search in bushes and those who want to solve a puzzle, and those are the hard core scenarioists LARPing with guns

We are known for our events and devices, but our ‘best’ loved ones perform an actual function which contributes to enhancing the game experience - for example a Hollywood style bomb device that triggers remote pyro, we used one in a game letting teams acquire the device and set it against other teams in a 3 faction game - our tech guy was rushing back and forth as teams would set alliances to capture a key location at a key time for points and then double cross each other by settting the device and detonating to ‘destroy’ the location and eliminate their temporary allies for bonus points 

 

Airsoft has a loose match with scenario paintball, but the typical game on site is a crossover between rental, site regular, scenarioist/LARPist and cosplayer just dressing up 

When we began to run games for airsoft a few players said they wanted more complex games than the basic site ones, but then many quickly disliked the full mission - they talked a good game but just wanted a dressed up gun fight 

 

Real time tracking is a possibility, but introduces technological problems of making sure it works and is reliable.  
Our tech guy won’t touch it with a barge pole, they don’t meet his perfectionist standards

We’ll plant tracking devices in some devices / props but they are to aid us in knowing where they are 

Theres also a recent video by another tech guy in a different industry - he demonstrates using a real time tracker, but as he goes on the reliability gets worse and worse giving false readings which he begins to resolve with error correction but they repeat inconsistently and give false positioning 

 

A commercial GPS device will do the job, as long as you can get good enough signals and can pass that information on to a receiver.  
 

 

If there’s a device to be made and sold then there’s a limited customer base (sites / event organisers) and those customers are limited down to those who can apply a device into a good game, then slice them right down to those who don’t have a geek on call who can make something good enough putting their time into it for the fun of solving a problem and making some code (plus copy / paste from free online demos with a little tweak)

I spent some of lockdown one working out the hidden menus from an undocumented commercial ‘device’ and building a series of custom devices plus my own code drawing from a a few free online examples and my rewriting to my own game plans.
 

 

 

I understand what you are saying and wish to expand but until I have a working model accompanied by a patent or patents, I can't say more. I can say the kit would consist of target & tracker units, be accurate within 2 meters and cost less than you might think.

11 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

And I'm sure you will be more successful than all the people who have "applied for patents" on all their airsoft innovations that require everybody to buy one in order for everybody to enjoy one.

 

Don't PM me, we're not friends. You're just another fantasist.

I PM'd you to take this debate away from the thread. I'm not trying to push anything on anyone. My idea is aimed towards site owners, not players.

[Stratton Oakmont]

Will never work

 

those are my three words

 

ooops,  sorry wrong thread 

[Tommikka]

21 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

 

Don't PM me, we're not friends. You're just another fantasist.

Can I be your forum  fwend?

[Adolf Hamster]

39 minutes ago, StumpyOG said:

Sorry, I thought I had answered that question. I am not trying to flog anything. I have an idea and the means to produce a version for testing. I can, & will apply for patents.

 

no offence (the standard opener to a comment that will then be offensive), but you do know that airsoft is a sport renowned for companies not giving a stuff about patents?

 

it started with everyone ripping off marui and it keeps happening, frankly i'd be amazed if any remotely successful product managed to not get ripped off no matter how many patents they had.

 

31 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Airsoft has a loose match with scenario paintball, but the typical game on site is a crossover between rental, site regular, scenarioist/LARPist and cosplayer just dressing up 

When we began to run games for airsoft a few players said they wanted more complex games than the basic site ones, but then many quickly disliked the full mission - they talked a good game but just wanted a dressed up gun fight 

 

this is the heart of the problem.

 

outside of specific themed events, you're dealing with the issue that any game rule has to be something that works for everyone, from dave the discount SEAL team six sergeant 2nd class to johnny's birthday party rental group.

 

even regulars who are game to try something new with some different scenarios/rulesets will happily listen to the breif, go out aiming to stick to the intended rules/theme the best they can and proceed to forget them about 30 minutes into the game leading to things like "do i stand here and wait for the medic or go to respawn?" or "is that area inbounds or not?" or "which zone are we falling back to?", i know because i'm afraid to admit that i'm very much that player- keen to have a crack at the more interesting ideas but scatterbrained.

 

meanwhile you'll get the "stuff it, imma shoot anyone that isn't me/my mates" approach, which is why literally every attempt at airsoft ttt has turned into a free for all death match once everyone that doesn't take that approach (ie not shooting everyone they see on sight regardless of what role they were given) has been eliminated in the first 10 seconds.

[Rogerborg]

15 minutes ago, Stratton Oakmont said:

those are my three words

 

throbbing.thirsty.delusional