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[Shamal]

9 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

If we find out @Shamalis a closet speed softer we’ll definitely will use that against him 😂😂

I don't do anything at speed. Ask my wife! Lol

24 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

Said no government or public institution in the history of mankind ever

You are right there! 

[AlphaBear]

The most important topic is beer! And the opening of pubs! Sitting in a beer garden after a game of airsoft nursing ones bb bruises and talking about all those non hit takers. 
 

Oh and having a nice home made pork pie with mustard as well with ones pint. (Apologies to Vegens and non-pork eaters)  

[MiK]

@AlphaBear Surely you mean a scotch egg matey as that’s classed as a “meal” 😜

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Shamal said:

I'm not an anti vaxer but I don't want it. 

I'm also in high risk group but I still don't want it.

Thats my choice because I'm free to choose and that is my considered choice.

Am I bad?

 

1 at a time please...lol

Regards 

 

 

that would depend on your reasoning as to why you don't want a vaccine.

 

there's no such thing as true freedom, only freedom with consequences, and when a decision is made that affects society then it's society's right to have a say in that decision.

 

however this might be a bit too politically serious for an airsoft forum.....

[Shamal]

11 minutes ago, MiK said:

@Shamal playing devil’s advocate here.....

Will you be doing the extension with more than 6 people or more than two different households ? Then currently they could possibly ask you to reschedule when the rules allow more mixing and I think they could possibly win any breach of contract agreement, but being honest here they want the extension so they will probably not worry about it

Yes see what you are saying but are the rules the same for construction. I know that on the m27 motorway there are hundreds of workers milling around. I think we can work but with observing social rules.in any case we will have very little contact with customers and we will wear ppe and soak our sandwiches in hand cleaner before eating 😉

But yes you are right they want extension finished before summer(god know why they chose us then🤭)so probably won't worry about it as you say.

But what I'm trying to say is that I think I would be within my rights to kick up a stink if they threw jabs into the equation.💉

🙂

Regards 

[AlphaBear]

3 minutes ago, MiK said:

@AlphaBear Surely you mean a scotch egg matey as that’s classed as a “meal” 😜

So that’s what Boris was mumbling absolutely when he was talking about the roadmap in the House today. He mentioned Scotch eggs and pubs lol 🤔

[Shamal]

24 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

The most important topic is beer! And the opening of pubs! Sitting in a beer garden after a game of airsoft nursing ones bb bruises and talking about all those non hit takers. 
 

Oh and having a nice home made pork pie with mustard as well with ones pint. (Apologies to Vegens and non-pork eaters)  

That takes me back. Pork pie and jar of mustard on table along with your pint,packet of fags and ashtray. Oh how sophisticated we waz. Lol 🏰🍺

[MiK]

12 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

So that’s what Boris was mumbling absolutely when he was talking about the roadmap in the House today. He mentioned Scotch eggs and pubs lol 🤔

 
It’s from back in November when they announced what a “substantial meal” was

 

 

[Shamal]

15 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

that would depend on your reasoning as to why you don't want a vaccine.

 

there's no such thing as true freedom, only freedom with consequences, and when a decision is made that affects society then it's society's right to have a say in that decision.

 

however this might be a bit too politically serious for an airsoft forum.....

What? Like a witch hunt do you mean?

If you don't behave in the same way as everyone else or if you are "different" then we have a duty to show you the errors of your ways!

Bit like religion i quess. But you are right let's not spoil a lovely evening.🙂

Regards

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

4 hours ago, MiK said:

 

I would be interested to see if any sites would be brave enough to add into their Terms that unless you come with your vacation card you won’t be allowed in to play, in fact if any site had that rule and actually enforced it I would gladly hand over a few pounds more to play there.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

5 minutes ago, Shamal said:

What? Like a witch hunt do you mean?

If you don't behave in the same way as everyone else or if you are "different" then we have a duty to show you the errors of your ways!

Bit like religion i quess. But you are right let's not spoil a lovely evening.🙂

Regards

 

 

Not quite that extreme lol.

 

Its more a philosophical interpretation as to why we have laws in the first place, and why some decisions need to be influenced by society to protect the freedom of others.

 

If it was only yourself you were risking by choosing not to vaccinate then i would 100% support your right to do so (even if i didn't think it was a good decision), but with this disease such a decision has wider effects on the people around you and as such their best interests need to be taken into account.

 

The consequences are what society imposes on decisions people make- you wanna get drunk, no consequences, you wanna then get behind the wheel of a car and endanger others? Then there's consequences.

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Stolen from the Daily Mail. No, I'm not a typical DM reader - but I do find some of the guff on there funny.

I'm not a 'Daily Mail reader' but do pick one up from time to time.

 

I used to work with a woman who would get the outrage topic of the day, until being directed to read other sides of the story from different newspapers spins.

Until the headline was about a topic she knew, instead of 'its an outrage' it was 'but that's not true'

[Shamal]

17 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

Not quite that extreme lol.

 

Its more a philosophical interpretation as to why we have laws in the first place, and why some decisions need to be influenced by society to protect the freedom of others.

 

If it was only yourself you were risking by choosing not to vaccinate then i would 100% support your right to do so (even if i didn't think it was a good decision), but with this disease such a decision has wider effects on the people around you and as such their best interests need to be taken into account.

 

The consequences are what society imposes on decisions people make- you wanna get drunk, no consequences, you wanna then get behind the wheel of a car and endanger others? Then there's consequences.

Yes but by having jabby jab I'm only protecting myself not anyone else. The jab is not a cure or am I missing something?

Regards

24 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

Hang on is it not possible to still infect people even if you have been jabbed?

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, Shamal said:

I'm self employed. But would that be constructive dismissal if your employer came up with " well you can't come to work if you don't do it and if you don't come to work you will loose your job"

Its like them saying we want all our staff to have tatoos cause we got them and if you don't then your down the road muttering!

🤔

Regards 

 

It will depend on what's reasonable.

 

Employers can't just require you to be vaccinated, but it could depend on the job and any other measures

[Shamal]

11 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It will depend on what's reasonable.

 

Employers can't just require you to be vaccinated, but it could depend on the job and any other measures

Well I can't see how anyone can force you to have something put into your body and hold the threat  of dismissal over your head if you don't!

it would be interesting to know what the court of human rights have to say about it.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

24 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Yes but by having jabby jab I'm only protecting myself not anyone else. The jab is not a cure or am I missing something?

 

By having the jab your avoiding taking a bed in a strained nhs, your giving the virus one less chance to mutate. 

 

It might sound like a tiny thing, but multiply that tiny thing by 69 million and suddenly its a big thing, multiply that by 7 billion and you can see where i'm going.

 

3 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Well I can't see how anyone can force you to have something put into your body and hold the threat  of dismissal over your head if you don't!

it would be interesting to know what the court of human rights have to say about it.

 

 

They force you to turn up to work sober, under threat of dismissal if you choose to be drunk or high on the job.

 

This is the price that society (may, it is as-yet undecided) wish to charge for your freedom to choose.

 

 

Sorry if i'm getting a bit more involved in this than i normally get with political debates but the wider subject of refusing vaccinations (without solid grounds eg medical exceptions) is something that really gets to me.

[Tommikka]

10 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Well I can't see how anyone can force you to have something put into your body and hold the threat  of dismissal over your head if you don't!

it would be interesting to know what the court of human rights have to say about it.

 

It’s a current topic in the care sector.

 

There are carers who refuse the vaccine for various reasons - allergy and other personal health, plus religious and personal reasons.

But the care homes have a responsibility for the patients and other staff.

For existing staff it’s likely that they will be able to object and the combination of various measures applies to reducing risk.

 

For new staff it could become a requirement, but that has the potential of a discrimination claim. 
Then it’s the balance of argument on each side - is it discriminatory or it is a reasonable requirement ?

 

 

For a job that involves international travel. If you need to meet criteria to be able to travel to a particular country and refuse or you are unable to meet that criteria then unless there’s an exemption then you might not be able to perform your duties. The ‘solution’ would be to find a non travel method, to take another role or end up being unable to fulfill the role and unemployed 

23 minutes ago, Shamal said:

it would be interesting to know what the court of human rights have to say about it.

 

Vaccines have already been tested in court with regard to Human Rights:

1) it’s against your human rights to be forced to be vaccinated

2) there can be valid reasons to breach the rights of an individual for the protection of others 

 

 

https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/do-compulsory-vaccinations-against-covid-19-violate-human-rights/

[Shamal]

8 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It’s a current topic in the care sector.

 

There are carers who refuse the vaccine for various reasons - allergy and other personal health, plus religious and personal reasons.

But the care homes have a responsibility for the patients and other staff.

For existing staff it’s likely that they will be able to object and the combination of various measures applies to reducing risk.

 

For new staff it could become a requirement, but that has the potential of a discrimination claim. 
Then it’s the balance of argument on each side - is it discriminatory or it is a reasonable requirement ?

 

 

For a job that involves international travel. If you need to meet criteria to be able to travel to a particular country and refuse or you are unable to meet that criteria then unless there’s an exemption then you might not be able to perform your duties. The ‘solution’ would be to find a non travel method, to take another role or end up being unable to fulfill the role and unemployed 

Nobody has answered whether the vax is a cure or if stops virus being transmitted or if my not having it puts anyone at risk.my understanding is that even if you have the vax you can still transmit the virus and can still contract it. 

Public health Scotland has just announced that hospital admissions of people that have had the vax has dropped by 94%.

So thats good if I get i cause I won't be tying a bed up.

But be honest why should I be barred from airsoft site if I've not got vax card.

Regards 

[MadMole]

Pimlico plumbers is the test case for this

 

1) They want all new staff to be vaccinated, and its a condition of all new contracts that they are. this has been deemed legal as the new staff have a choice to join or not

2) They want to amend all existing contracts to insist all staff get vaccinated. This is on dodgy ground and is to be tested in the high court

(in both cases there are exceptions if you are medically unable to have a vaccine)

3) Terminate all current contracts using some excuse and then sign all old staff on a new vaccination mandatory contract. Technically illegal, but companies do it all the time

 

How this affects us is it would be perfectly legal for a site to add a rule that players must provide proof of vaccination to be allowed to enter a site. The game is voluntary so no body is forcing you you sign up aand have a vaccine

 

[Shamal]

15 minutes ago, MadMole said:

Pimlico plumbers is the test case for this

 

1) They want all new staff to be vaccinated, and its a condition of all new contracts that they are. this has been deemed legal as the new staff have a choice to join or not

2) They want to amend all existing contracts to insist all staff get vaccinated. This is on dodgy ground and is to be tested in the high court

(in both cases there are exceptions if you are medically unable to have a vaccine)

3) Terminate all current contracts using some excuse and then sign all old staff on a new vaccination mandatory contract. Technically illegal, but companies do it all the time

 

How this affects us is it would be perfectly legal for a site to add a rule that players must provide proof of vaccination to be allowed to enter a site. The game is voluntary so no body is forcing you you sign up aand have a vaccine

 

It's still discrimination on medical/belief grounds.

Regards 

[Tommikka]

20 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Nobody has answered whether the vax is a cure or if stops virus being transmitted or if my not having it puts anyone at risk.my understanding is that even if you have the vax you can still transmit the virus and can still contract it. 

Public health Scotland has just announced that hospital admissions of people that have had the vax has dropped by 94%.

So thats good if I get i cause I won't be tying a bed up.

But be honest why should I be barred from airsoft site if I've not got vax card.

Regards 

I think someone did say that vaccine is not a cure, but a measure in reducing transmission

 

If you have never been exposed to a virus then your immune system has to kick in from a standing start to create antibodies, if you have been vaccinated you are one step ahead and your immune system becomes effective quicker.

That may fully prevent you from suffering an illness or it may reduce the impact so you still suffer but at a lesser scale and/or get over it quicker 

 

By not having the vaccine you aren’t reducing risk - but you may not need to.  With sufficient people immunized  the herd immunity also helps others.

If you are never exposed then it’s irrelevant as to whether you’re immunized or not.  When enough people are immunized the transmission rate reduces, and the virus becomes less efficient at passing itself on - pending variants and how well vaccines cover the variants

 

The other question is why should an airsoft site allow the risk of non immunized customers?

As a matter of balance it would depend on what other measures they have and the impact on the virus of the scale of vaccination that has taken place 

5 minutes ago, Shamal said:

It's still discrimination on medical/belief grounds.

Regards 

But also may or may not be justifiable 

[Adolf Hamster]

Theres a difference between medical grounds and personal beleifs for refusing a vaccine, indeed for the former its not a refusal they make themselves.

 

People who legitimately cant have a vaccine for medical reasons due to a compromised immune system are reliant on the herd immunity of people around them to be safe. They need people to be free of disease, their lives are curtailed in the same way a disability like cerebral palsy curtails your life and means certain jobs will never be viable for you, its a shitty hand to be dealt and thats why disability benefit is a thing.

 

Refusing based on beleif is choosing to be the part of society that puts the former category at additional risk. And i've yet to hear a convincing reason as to why that should be the case.

 

Personally i'll take the vaccine as soon as i'm able and the only reason i would refuse is so the dose can go to someone of greater need.

[Shamal]

Sunny Sunday morning. People strolling slowly to church.

Man runs past the happy families.

Close on his heels 👠 is a mob of baseball ⚾️ bat weilding angry folk."He has not been jabbed"they cry. "Stop him"

"Fuck Church" say the happy people,"this is more interesting!"

 

 

Sorry but this is what I forsee,although maybe a bit dramatic but in essence true to type.

🙂👍

Regards 

[Brophy]

The only good thing that's come out of this is during lockdown and restrictions, is that I've had an excuse not to be dragged shopping or visiting the in-laws...

 

In other news, West Mids Airsoft posted this and it made me happy: https://www.facebook.com/events/2939442569704536/

[Lozart]

16 hours ago, Shamal said:

Yes but by having jabby jab I'm only protecting myself not anyone else. The jab is not a cure or am I missing something?

Regards

Hang on is it not possible to still infect people even if you have been jabbed?

Herd immunity

Having a vaccine also benefits your whole community through "herd immunity".

If enough people are vaccinated, it's harder for the disease to spread to those people who cannot have vaccines. For example, people who are ill or have a weakened immune system.

Information:

Read more about herd immunity and who it protects on the Oxford University Vaccine Knowledge Project website