Biggest RIF 'Technology' Advancement

[alxndrhll]

So, the title was a bit awkward to come up with for exactly what I’m asking so I’ll try and get a better explanation in the thread itself.

 

I haven’t really kept up with new things airsoft for the past 5 years or so and I’ve been doing a heap of digging into what exactly has changed in terms of what has changed with the internals of RiFs.

 

From what I’ve seen:

 

- Heavier BB’s seem to be much more popular, my presumption is due to better hop up solutions?

 

- Mosfets in various flavours are prolific throughout. Irrelevant of what you want it for, it seems there is a mosfet that can give you what you’re after?

 

- HPA and GBBRs seem more popular... or at the very least more common. I’m guessing this is in part down to availability alongside advancements in how the work and an increased degree of reliability?

 

Outside of those, everything seems pretty same old... is there anything folks here think I’ve overlooked? I guess I’m ultimately trying to fast track my general knowledge of what ‘the norm’ is, taking advantage of the hive mind. It’s certainly not intended as a ‘what upgrades should I get’ thread, lord knows there are plenty of those. Simply trying to feed my curiosity during a point where ‘free time’ seems to be at a surplus!

 

Cheers,

Alex 

[Davegolf]

Yes BB manufacturers have gotten much better at making heavier BBs

 

MosFets alongside general electronics advancements in life, trickle down tech and cost savings etc have made MosFets and electrickery very accessible!

 

HPA has come on alot, with more capacity and bottle options, more compact regs and again electrics, although they are getting shunned of late due to legalities.

 

GBBRs have come on in popularity because of @Wo1f MWS thread, no i mean because generally speaking GHK and Marui have really got the mechanics down, they are a joy to shoot, seriously if you like airsoft because you like guns you should fire an MWS or GHK SiG or TM MP7

 

Generally i think manufacturers have taken note of what the airsofter wants and many manufacturers have improved the quality of there guns, G&G / ASG etc and newer companies like LCT and Specna also.

[alxndrhll]

Huh, interesting. So it’s more that the higher weight BB’s themselves are better rather than the stuff that’s flinging them down a barrel? I’ve seen Geoff’s mentioned a lot so I’ll certainly be picking some up.

 

That certainly makes a lot of sense, I’m not certain exactly how but I’d almost expected the electronics to have advanced further than they have. I know it features on the NGRS stuff from Marui but I expected bolts locking back on empty on AEGs to be a ‘standard’... I say expected, I guess I didn’t really have any expectations so to speak.

 

All makes sense on the HPA/GBBR side, I’ve been working my way through the @Wo1f MWS thread as I’ll be receiving one once I can finish my UKARA stamps.

 

Seems like an extremely valid conclusion, thank you very much for taking the time!

 

Cheers,

Alex

[Davegolf]

Yeh for ages BB manufacturers struggled with the higher weights, they were extremely expensive to make, still a bit spendy but much better quality too.

Your gun has to be able to volume a heavy BB for it to be worthwhile, and if you are allowed to use them in the field they are great at holding true with slight wind and foliage, plus at a distance they hit with more energy so more chance of the hit being recognised/taken - big bonus!

 

MWS and heavy BBs in the woods is a killer combo!

[alxndrhll]

Granted it may be more linked to what the sites I’ve played/stock up on ammo at previously but I remember Marui .2’s generally being the go to with some shifting .25’s. Heavier than that seemed almost exclusively used as ‘sniper’ ammo.

 

Definitely super interesting to me that it was the quality of the heavier ones holding them back more than anything else, wasn’t something I’d have considered at all.

 

Cheers,

Alex

 

p.s. Based on the comments in the MWS thread I’ll certainly be after one of those fancy brass nubs! That thread was largely the reason my conclusion on heavier ammo popularity increasing being attached to improvements to various elements of hopping.

[Davegolf]

The only time I run 0.2s is when I have to playing CQB!

 

Any AEG upto 350fps would run 0.25 - 0.3s

 

350 - 450 def 0.3 - 0.4

 

Sniper 0.4 plus all day

 

Gas and HPA are brilliant for joule creep, really makes for some proper energy in your shots at range, sensibility has to come into it though and that's one of the reasons HPA gets a bad rep because of wreckless players that don't care for their opponents well being.

[alxndrhll]

Pretty crazy that one of the biggest advancements has been the tiny plastic balls we buy in the thousands and scatter across woodland and buildings across the country!

 

Absolutely, airsoft being an ‘honour sport’ of sorts certainly SHOULD have a wider reaching effect than simply ‘calling your hits’. Whether it be ignorance or in malice I fear some forget the reason such limitations are in place, safety of those enjoying the same hobby just isn’t as upfront a consideration as it should be for some folks.

 

Cheers,

Alex

[EDcase]

I've only been 'softing' for a couple of years so duno what it was like earlier.

What about hop rubber and nubs?  Have they improved?

Were there so many designs and hardness levels available?

 

I would guess there haven't been many big innovations but many small improvements to every aspect of design and manufacturing...

[PopRocket123]

9 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

Huh, interesting. So it’s more that the higher weight BB’s themselves are better rather than the stuff that’s flinging them down a barrel? I’ve seen Geoff’s mentioned a lot so I’ll certainly be picking some up.

 

That certainly makes a lot of sense, I’m not certain exactly how but I’d almost expected the electronics to have advanced further than they have. I know it features on the NGRS stuff from Marui but I expected bolts locking back on empty on AEGs to be a ‘standard’... I say expected, I guess I didn’t really have any expectations so to speak.

 

All makes sense on the HPA/GBBR side, I’ve been working my way through the @Wo1f MWS thread as I’ll be receiving one once I can finish my UKARA stamps.

 

Seems like an extremely valid conclusion, thank you very much for taking the time!

 

Cheers,

Alex

More companies are starting to include last round cut off mechanisms in their more premium guns. G&G for example have put it in all their high end guns for the past year or two. The main thing holding it back is the requirement of proprietary magazines and everyone has their own system so one brand's magazines won't work with another brand's cut off system

[alxndrhll]

9 hours ago, EDcase said:

I've only been 'softing' for a couple of years so duno what it was like earlier.

What about hop rubber and nubs?  Have they improved?

Were there so many designs and hardness levels available?

 

I would guess there haven't been many big innovations but many small improvements to every aspect of design and manufacturing...

Rotary style adjustment, flat hopping and r-hopping are all things which feel like some form of ‘evolution’. Granted selling hop unit components to airsofters isn’t exactly selling ice to eskimos! Flat hop makes a lot of sense to me, I’m still not certain I really understand r-hopping!

 

2 hours ago, PopRocket123 said:

More companies are starting to include last round cut off mechanisms in their more premium guns. G&G for example have put it in all their high end guns for the past year or two. The main thing holding it back is the requirement of proprietary magazines and everyone has their own system so one brand's magazines won't work with another brand's cut off system

 

Almost immediately after posting that comment I started thinking about how it could be done, as you say mags kept coming out as the thing that were the real hurdle. Though I’m sure it’s nothing a fairly simple sensor and replacement of a ‘follower’ couldn’t fix... but that’s just more faff, and more to go wrong!

 

Cheers,

Alex

[Skara]

Hop systems have certainly progressed over the years, so did BBs.

Maple Leaf rubbers are everywhere now, a while back they were actually hard to get here in Italy. The heaviest BB weight available was 0.25g and now we have steady supplies of up to 0.5g balls.

 

We have a lot more choices regarding what electronic gimmick we put in our toys. TM is still making good reliable AEGs and none of them have mosfets or FCUs.

This shows that while they're nice to have if you want to tailor your gun to your needs (or autism), but they're not lifesavers and they need to have a properly built platform supporting them to really shine.

 

Some "low cost" manufacturers have actually upped their quality to stupid levels (see Cyma, their AK range is fantastic and their M14s are light years away from what they used to be 10odd years ago) while still retaining a low-ish price point.

 

A lot has changed, but at the same time no real game breaker was released.

[Davegolf]

https://sixgunsmithing.com/2019/02/28/whats-so-good-about-rhop/

 

[alxndrhll]

9 minutes ago, Skara said:

A lot has changed, but at the same time no real game breaker was released.

This echoes my own thoughts for the most part, there have certainly been advancements but at @EDcase said it’s been small improvements to a few areas across a RIF rather than a big ‘game changing’ innovation.

 

12 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

https://sixgunsmithing.com/2019/02/28/whats-so-good-about-rhop/

 

 

Well that’s certainly a lot simpler than I thought it was... though I image a bit of a pig to install! Thanks for the link, I’m now beginning to feel like a massive dumb dumb having only just made the connection that this your website! Unless of course I’m a double dumb dumb and I’m jumping to the wrong conclusion so to speak!

 

Cheers,

Alex

[Adolf Hamster]

i think the advent of heavier bb's also comes from greater understanding, it was a trap i fell into myself was the old "0.2g is faster therefore goes further" argument.

 

hpa does seem to have become more mainstream, i think we have the likes of wolverine and tippman to thank for lowering the price barrier.

 

there does seem to be a nice array of hop choices these days, ml's macaron series offer amazing performance with minimal fuss (compared to trying to glue an rhop together).

 

i agree with skara that there are some really nice guns on the lower end of the price spectrum that don't take much to shoot really well.

[heroshark]

2 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

Though I’m sure it’s nothing a fairly simple sensor and replacement of a ‘follower’ couldn’t fix... but that’s just more faff, and more to go wrong!

 

Its been attempted but not as reliable as a mechanical system hence why ngrs is popular.

 

One odd ball and very new system is the DAS. Some love it and some have tried and had no luck in regards to functioning reliably.

 

 

This is worth a watch regards bb weight.

 

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

7 minutes ago, heroshark said:

Its been attempted but not as reliable as a mechanical system hence why ngrs is popular.

 

i tried the system that came with the ascu2 for last round cutoff, no idea if it worked or not because the wiring was shite and it never worked to begin with, and don't get me started on the atrocious hop unit design/construction.

 

i think the MAXX unit is meant to be getting a sensor, might be interesting to see if that's any good as at least that comes with a hop unit that's worth using. not sure how it ties into other systems, eg the spare plug on the front of polarstar's triggerboards.

[alxndrhll]

3 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i think the advent of heavier bb's also comes from greater understanding, it was a trap i fell into myself was the old "0.2g is faster therefore goes further" argument

I certainly remember the general thought way back when being 0.2 if you want it to go further 0.25 if you want it to be more accurate. For some unknown reason this really stuck with me, which I guess is why the prevalence of heavier BBs stood out to me so much.

 

3 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i agree with skara that there are some really nice guns on the lower end of the price spectrum that don't take much to shoot really well.

 

Seeing actual recommendations for Cyma RIFs certainly threw me off at first, all power to them of course. Competition is never a bad thing, hopefully the improvements from the ‘lower end’ companies mean this sort of thread is very different in 5 years time!

 

2 hours ago, heroshark said:

 

Its been attempted but not as reliable as a mechanical system hence why ngrs is popular.

 

One odd ball and very new system is the DAS. Some love it and some have tried and had no luck in regards to functioning reliably.

 

I’ve watched almost the entire catalogue of @Bada Bing, and I’d entirely missed that one. Such good content! Definitely an interesting RIF, I suppose I’m just jumping to sensors and swapping out a mag follower as a solution rather than a mechanical system because it could be used to modify existing mags rather than having to buy a heap of new ones.

 

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i think the MAXX unit is meant to be getting a sensor, might be interesting to see if that's any good as at least that comes with a hop unit that's worth using. not sure how it ties into other systems, eg the spare plug on the front of polarstar's triggerboards.

Hmm, that’s intriguing. I’m a big fan of the Maxx unit, the tracer attachment stuff seems like an alright alternative to your standard tracer setup. Are Maxx the only company playing around with electronic stuff attached to a hop unit at the moment?

 

Cheers,

Alex

[Skara]

4 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

Are Maxx the only company playing around with electronic stuff attached to a hop unit at the moment?

Madbull did it years ago with their "ultimate" hop unit.

 

But that chamber is utter shit.

[Adolf Hamster]

22 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

I certainly remember the general thought way back when being 0.2 if you want it to go further 0.25 if you want it to be more accurate. For some unknown reason this really stuck with me, which I guess is why the prevalence of heavier BBs stood out to me so much.

 

it's a trap i fell into for a long time until i sat down and actually calculated it out all on excel and realised that there is a very clear trend that heavier ammo goes further.

 

of course there's always a balance to be struck, generally i run around .3g for most of my guns as for pistols it's at the stage where the gun shoots better than i do, and for rifles i just can't stomach the expendature on the good stuff every game (although i do save up a stash for special occasions)

 

24 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

Seeing actual recommendations for Cyma RIFs certainly threw me off at first, all power to them of course. Competition is never a bad thing, hopefully the improvements from the ‘lower end’ companies mean this sort of thread is very different in 5 years time!

 

the lower end of the market is definately pretty good, i have a jg aksu and damn if that thing don't shoot pretty damn well even on the stock hop/barrel combo. tbh for me i'd say the difference between a cyma ak and an lct/e&l ak is less to do with performance and more external quality.

 

24 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

Hmm, that’s intriguing. I’m a big fan of the Maxx unit, the tracer attachment stuff seems like an alright alternative to your standard tracer setup. Are Maxx the only company playing around with electronic stuff attached to a hop unit at the moment?

 

the tracer is certainly interesting, i'm thinking i might have a play around with it as i've not really done much with tracer rounds. might look into doing a tracer/stealth mix or something like that.

 

certainly last round cutoff would be nice, although i'm well enough used to not relying on it anyway.

 

17 minutes ago, Skara said:

Madbull did it years ago with their "ultimate" hop unit.

 

But that chamber is utter shit.

 

ain't that the truth, i'm damned if i can figure out how you're meant to fit the barrel and hop rubber inside that thing, because there seems to only be room for one or the other.

 

very much a case where the "upgrade" part is generally worse than the stock one.

[alxndrhll]

13 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

the lower end of the market is definately pretty good, i have a jg aksu and damn if that thing don't shoot pretty damn well even on the stock hop/barrel combo. tbh for me i'd say the difference between a cyma ak and an lct/e&l ak is less to do with performance and more external quality.

I certainly frequently fall into the camp of buying a RIF for the external quality and ‘fixing’ anything I feel is subpar on the insides!

 

20 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

certainly last round cutoff would be nice, although i'm well enough used to not relying on it anyway.

Absolutely, and if it’s something that ranks highly in your list of needs there are routes to take which tick it off the list. I guess just looking through the various airsoft gimmicks we pay through the roof for I found myself surprised this is still an infrequently surfacing feature, strictly speaking for AEGs with that statement.

 

Cheers,

Alex

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, alxndrhll said:

I certainly frequently fall into the camp of buying a RIF for the external quality and ‘fixing’ anything I feel is subpar on the insides!

 

it's definately something i've grown into since starting off, but the key thing is that if all you want is for it to be cheap and sling bb's in a reasonably straight line there really are good budget options out there.

 

1 hour ago, alxndrhll said:

Absolutely, and if it’s something that ranks highly in your list of needs there are routes to take which tick it off the list. I guess just looking through the various airsoft gimmicks we pay through the roof for I found myself surprised this is still an infrequently surfacing feature, strictly speaking for AEGs with that statement.

 

i think part of it is that it's a lot of effort to put in for something that's not really necessary, i can't say my interest in it has ever gone beyond "hmm that'd be cool".