Apoch Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Ok i would like a bit of advice. A bloke made an offer on one of the RIF's i am selling. He gave me his UKARA and address which i dutifully got checked and it all came back verified and valid. Unfortunately though he has just paid for it with someone else's Paypal account which has a name and address not matching the UKARA. He has given me a plausible explanation for why he cant use his Paypal. I have asked if the RIF is to be sent to the name and address on the UKARA. If it isn't and its to be sent to the Paypal then i will cancel the transaction immediately but if it is going to the same name and address on the UKARA do i have any potential legal issues if i go ahead with the transaction? Cheers guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I would get them to 'sign' (type their name) on a message which shows their full name, address and a statement saying they are purchasing for the sole purpose of legal use in organised airsoft games. If its the same as UKARA address then I think it would be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 3, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 3, 2020 I'd be inclined to wish to send to UKARA'd addy eg: Joe is not UKARA'd but came by (gifted/stolen) a RIF Jim who is UKARA'd buys the RIF from Joe with his own UKARA & addy etc... Now Joe has Has Jim's details and buys stuff with Jim's details Tin foil hat perhaps and know people move and don't update etc... But it "could" happen that no UKARA people use other legit people's details Now if it is all legit then the person with the UKARA addy won't mind it going to his addy any issues then I'd return the money if playing by the book edit - just to add... Yes I have heard of retailers sending say to people's place of work, (usually after a small history of orders) But those transactions would likely have been ordered & paid for by person on UKARA details eg: UKARA'd Jim orders a gun, with his UKARA details and paid for by Jim's credit card or paypal at that addy, but requests the order is delivered to Jim's place of work The transaction you described is not like this example of Jim ordering & paying but sending to his work End of the day, it is you & nobody else breaching the VCRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2m4 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 As Ducks says...the UKARA info he gave you could be somebody else's . Also with Paypal I'm pretty sure any protection a seller may have will be gone if you don't send to the registered address of the account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveocee Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 If you send to UKARA address you face a paypal chargeback for not sending to the address specified on Paypal. If you send to the Paypal address then you are dodging your already own good intentions of being responsible (and potential legal comebacks which won't happen but cover your backside anyway). I'd be inclined to politely ask them to sort their Paypal out and then make payment sending it to the UKARA address that matches the Paypal address. You're being too nice, whats a plausible reason for Paypal not working? I cannot think of any, I've had my Paypal account since mid 2004 and never once has it "not worked". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I’ve bought RIF’s from fire-support, as long as your billing address matches your UKARA, the delivery address doesn’t matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoch Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 Thanks for all the feedback guys. It sounds like i just need to refund the transaction and ask the buyer to pay with their Paypal. It seems like i am leaving myself open to either a Paypal charge-back or possibly being on the wrong side of the VCRA if i go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted March 3, 2020 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2020 Speaking from experience, & as someone who currently isn't covered by ukara, Is the potential buyer on here ?, or another page/forum, & has he got any dedicated history, feedback/post count/long term member/reasonably sensible post content etc, these are all things I look at if not presented with ukara, if the answer to any of these is no, then I'd refund the payment & insist the PayPal & ukara details match as its likely an underage chav trying to pull a flanker. Regarding a delivery address, sending to an alternative address isn't uncommon for matters of security, or to hide the Airsoft "habit" from the missus 😏, but I'd insist the other details match . If the ukara is his mates ?, then insist the mate completes the purchase, & then said mate can gift it to him, all legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostly Retired Moderators L3wisD Posted March 3, 2020 Mostly Retired Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2020 Not to add fuel to any hysteria.. but wasn't this one of Stephen Glennie's tricks - I.e using someone elses paypal account without their knowledge? The person then claims their money back for the "Undelivered" gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 You are open to losing the money on a PayPal charge back, with none of the protection of PayPal (which of course defaults to the buyer in any dispute) If you produce a PayPal invoice then they can pay without having an account, they just use their card details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoch Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 Again guys thanks for all of the feedback. The whole thing just feels off to me and pretty irregular so i am going to refund the transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted March 3, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tommikka said: If you produce a PayPal invoice then they can pay without having an account, they just use their card details So much this. I'd be more concerned about being pumped by PayPal rather than tugged by the fuzz. 16 minutes ago, Apoch said: The whole thing just feels off to me and pretty irregular so i am going to refund the transaction. I think that's the right thing to do. The chances of you ending up with no RIF and no money is high enough already without falling for a "Working on the rigs" style scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2m4 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 When that "new" UKARA alternative system is written hopefully it gives the player the ability to add a secondary address 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoch Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 So the end of this story. The bloke paid me with his own Paypal when he got home last night and all the details matched his UKARA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrin Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 19 hours ago, ak2m4 said: When that "new" UKARA alternative system is written hopefully it gives the player the ability to add a secondary address 🙂 intriguing! Any info about that floating about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted March 4, 2020 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Apoch said: So the end of this story. The bloke paid me with his own Paypal when he got home last night and all the details matched his UKARA. Good news mate👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoch Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Disregard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2m4 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 hours ago, mzjango said: intriguing! Any info about that floating about? Wishful thinking 🙂 there's been a few stories about new defense systems in the past but nothing concrete. Whilst the UKARA system works it does have a number of short-comings. I did chat to a couple of players a while back who I used to work with when I was more involved in the software industry and they expressed an interest in working on a system, but I never followed up with them as I just didn't have the time to work on the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted March 4, 2020 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Apoch said: So the latest chapter in me selling off my collection of RIF's certainly is a strange one and quite similar to the sale that started this post. I agreed a price for the G&G LR300 I am currently selling with what seemed like a very nice reasonable bloke. He had no issues sending me proof of age in the form of his driving license and diligently gave me his UKARA details. I submit them for checking and they come back fine. I message said nice bloke this evening to tell him the good news. Straight away he sends me the agreed upon amount. Excellent! What a guy! No messing around! He messages me to tell me to post it to the address he had already said which was the one on his driving license. I thought this was a bit odd as he had already given me his address so i check the Paypal transaction. Low and behold the address on the transaction was different to the one on his driving license. Boom there goes my certainty that i am in fact sending this RIF to the person that holds the UKARA and further more as you guys diligently pointed out earlier completely voids my Paypal seller protection. I realise of course people make mistakes so i messaged him straight away explaining the situation and that i would unfortunately have to issue a refund. A perfectly reasonable stance i thought and i wasn't too bothered about holding onto the gun for said reasonable chap until the refund cleared and he wanted to try again with the correct address. I seemed to read the entire situation quite wrong as i got this rather strange reply. "Yea I think it’s for the best, I’ve never heard such nonsense over £100. I could’ve had the parcel sent there as it’s my parents house but I don’t think I want to do business with you. i wish you luck with your sale." Perhaps i am not as reasonable as i thought 😑 Thing is, it's not about the £100 for you, at the very least it's about staying on the right side of the law, but also avoiding the worse case scenario of passing a rif in to someone with criminal intentions, of which some possibilities don't bear thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoch Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tackle said: Thing is, it's not about the £100 for you, at the very least it's about staying on the right side of the law, but also avoiding the worse case scenario of passing a rif in to someone with criminal intentions, of which some possibilities don't bear thinking about. The whole thing was just absolutely bizarre I have sold 4 RIF's on this site in the last 2 weeks and for every one bloke I sold too I would have 3 really strange people try to buy. The reason for the edit if anyone was wondering is on reflection i don't really want to be a drama queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted March 4, 2020 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, Apoch said: The reason for the edit if anyone was wondering is on reflection i don't really want to be a drama queen. Not at all mate, doesn't hurt to make members aware of the tricks some people will try to get their hands on rifs, hopefully make more people vigilant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted March 4, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Apoch said: So the end of this story. [Bookmarked] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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