Buyer pays fees

[Druid799]

We see it ALL the time on adverts , your drifting through the forum and end up on the sales (as you do ?) , you see the ultimate ‘spaff cannon of doom !’ That you’ve always wanted and as you absorb all the info and drool over the pictures you then see at the end “buyer covers Postage and Paypal fees” .

For FFS ! just post up one bloody price will you ! Is it really THAT hard to work out what you want for it ? 

Plus if anyone wants to be funny about it it’s actually against Paypal’s T&C’s to do so and technically you could get your account shut down for doing so as it’s asking for an additional unsanctioned fee .

[Tommikka]

I thought there was a thread .... and you posted on that one too ...

 

 

 

I’ll assume you’re the same as me & get grumpy when you read those words !!!

[Gepard]

32 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

I thought there was a thread .... and you posted on that one too ...

 

 

 

I’ll assume you’re the same as me & get grumpy when you read those words !!!

 

I thought this sounded familiar! 

[Guest]

I sell a lot, and buy a lot, never charge anybody fees, almost always add postage as it can vary so much.

 

Very rarely will I pay fees to anybody unless it’s something I really want and it’s very rare. 

[Albiscuit]

Gets me too... Just add a fiver or something to your asking price or work it out like you said!!

[E21A]

Sure I’ve read this before somewhere?? 🤔🤔

 

Postage as an added extra I can understand, it can vary on where someone is etc and a lot of couriers require a delivery postcode to give a quote. 

 

Paypal fees aren’t hard to include though, work out what you want and add 5% to cover it, easy. 

[Rogerborg]

The old rants are the best ones.

 

Given the unlikelihood of anything posted on the classifieds actually being sold locally face-to-face, I'd be minded to mandate that all prices must be what the buyer pays, all-in, inclusive of postage and any fees, which it's the seller's responsibility to work out before listing.

 

Not that any fecker will pay any attention, but it'll make for even better rants in future.

 

[Druid799]

Was indeed an existing thread but as we all know old threads are like written directions , no one ever reads the bloody things ! 🤦‍♂️

[snuff]

Same, that addition even after agreement is annoying.I've left deals due to this just out of principle,I'm not going to pay for someone else's privilege.I also add it when advertising it isn't hard.

[Sev]

OP, You're mistaken for counting shipping charges as against PayPal's T&Cs. That clause is designed to prevent charging fees for handling the payment via PayPal or to try and cover the fee that PayPal itself charges the seller. Shipping charges are not the same thing.

 

I advertise excl shipping because the buyer can see the actual price of the item I'm offering and they can choose the method of shipping that suits them and their budget. The final cost is then agreed and that is what is processed by PayPal.

 

You rant that "Is it really THAT hard to work out what you want for it ?", so I counter with "is it really that hard to add on a little to cover how you want it shipped?" It's the same with any online retailer...

[Tommikka]

26 minutes ago, Sev said:

OP, You're mistaken for counting shipping charges as against PayPal's T&Cs. That clause is designed to prevent charging fees for handling the payment via PayPal or to try and cover the fee that PayPal itself charges the seller. Shipping charges are not the same thing.

 

I advertise excl shipping because the buyer can see the actual price of the item I'm offering and they can choose the method of shipping that suits them and their budget. The final cost is then agreed and that is what is processed by PayPal.

 

You rant that "Is it really THAT hard to work out what you want for it ?", so I counter with "is it really that hard to add on a little to cover how you want it shipped?" It's the same with any online retailer...

I prefer sales listings to be either all inclusive or to be clear about any extras in the listing.

 

If there is the possibility of face to face then there can be no postage or fees due to cash.

Then either show what the extra would be, or make it clear that’s to be added later.

 

Postage can be a tricky subject with guns etc as the size & weight can put the price up, let alone limited carriers and methods that are suitable & have the right insurance etc.

So its better to give an idea, but if the buyer doesn’t like it when they see how much postage will cost then that just turns it into a no sale and is just a matter of how much hassle it is or isn’t to almost get a sale.

 

I sold one of my more pricey guns about a year ago, it took something like 18 months to achieve with a lot of comms from prospective buyers - quite a few were just chancing it for a rock bottom price, others balked at the cost of proper postage and adequate insurance asking me to drop that for something cheaper, or wondering why I don’t want a direct bank transfer to avoid fees.

It didn’t bother me that much because rather than needing the cash I was just selling something worth a few £s that I wasn’t using and only lending out, if it wasn’t with filling my wallet then it wasn’t worth selling.

 

 

I dislike sellers who will throw up an amount of money that they want to make, but then it constantly goes up and up in negotiation.

It’s fine to cover fees in the price that will get charged as it goes through

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Sev said:

is it really that hard to add on a little to cover how you want it shipped

 

How I want it shipped?  I don't care.  Why would I?  Until it arrives at my door, as described and undamaged, you haven't fulfilled your contract, as PayPal will be very happy to make clear should it go to a dispute.

 

The seller has the contract with the courier, not the buyer.

 

The responsibility and the risk during transit lie with the seller.

 

Would you ship a £675 RIF using Yodel, knowing that it's liable to get flung over the wrong fence, and you're only covered for £20?

 

If so, that's your loss, not mine.

[Sev]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

 

How I want it shipped?  I don't care.  Why would I?  Until it arrives at my door, as described and undamaged, you haven't fulfilled your contract, as PayPal will be very happy to make clear should it go to a dispute.

 

The seller has the contract with the courier, not the buyer.

 

The responsibility and the risk during transit lie with the seller.

 

Would you ship a £675 RIF using Yodel, knowing that it's liable to get flung over the wrong fence, and you're only covered for £20?

 

If so, that's your loss, not mine.

 

Youve entirely missed my point. 

 

Yes, you’re right that it’s my duty to ensure the item is delivered, but that is not what I am referring to at all. 

 

My my point is that somebody may want faster dispatch or live further away that increases shipping costs. I will not include an inaccurate guess figure for shipping for the sake of including it. You may not care how or when it arrives, but I have had people I have shipped to in the past who did. 

 

If if I have a serious buyer and they want to know shipping costs, we can use their preferences and info to generate an accurate cost of shipping. We can negotiate from there. It’s really not hard at all.

 

The price on the listing is for the item only. That way they can see how the item itself is valued and can compare to other listings or items for sale. Again, it’s the same whenever you shop for something remotely. 

 

To to be honest, if someone is going to get as angry as OP about how an advert is listed then I’d rather not deal with them, they are likely a nuisance waiting to happen. If you don’t have trust between both parties, the transaction is best avoided. 

[Tommikka]

41 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Would you ship a £675 RIF using Yodel, knowing that it's liable to get flung over the wrong fence, and you're only covered for £20?

 

 

Subject to the right tracking, upgraded insurance, and checking the prohibited & restricted list - yes.  But that will be reflected in the postage costs

If they throw it over a fence and don’t get proper proof of delivery then it comes down to the carrier and I claim back from them as seller.

 

But when it comes to couriers I’m more likely to use Hermes

 

[Druid799]

2 hours ago, Sev said:

OP, You're mistaken for counting shipping charges as against PayPal's T&Cs. That clause is designed to prevent charging fees for handling the payment via PayPal or to try and cover the fee that PayPal itself charges the seller. Shipping charges are not the same thing.

 

I advertise excl shipping because the buyer can see the actual price of the item I'm offering and they can choose the method of shipping that suits them and their budget. The final cost is then agreed and that is what is processed by PayPal.

 

You rant that "Is it really THAT hard to work out what you want for it ?", so I counter with "is it really that hard to add on a little to cover how you want it shipped?" It's the same with any online retailer...

Rant ? No the term is exasperated?

I hadn’t counted delivery charges against the T&Cs I said “payer covers fees” is wrong , postage costs are just bloody annoying . So to retort to your retort , why should I do your work for you ? Your selling a pouch ? You send it through the mail or another equally cheap method , your selling a RIF ? You send it courier (Parcel force is the one basically everyone selling on the forums use ) which runs around the same price bracket for most RIFs and this appears to be the way 99% of sellers work , if I want it by an alternative delivery method I’d contact the seller and ask for a different type delivery .

 

48 minutes ago, Sev said:

To to be honest, if someone is going to get as angry as OP about how an advert is listed then I’d rather not deal with them, they are likely a nuisance waiting to happen. If you don’t have trust between both parties, the transaction is best avoided. 

Well aren’t you a judgment little spunktrumpet ?

You don’t just pluck a random number out of the air and stick it down as the P&P cost do you ?

All you need do is a relatively small amount of research on-line and add as accurate as possible ball park figure to your price . If I’m selling in the UK it’s going to cost the same wether I’m sending it to the next town to me or the other end of the country (funny that) if I’m sending international then obviously it’s going to cost a lot more so I’d need to negotiate with the buyer about delivery , not exactly rocket science now is it ?   

I don’t ‘trust’ anyone with internet sales period , only caveat is if you know them/of them then and you hope you can expect them to be trustworthy , eg if I was selling somthing and Tackle/Rogerborg/clumpy/etc expressed interest I’m pretty confident they aren't going to try and rip me off as even though I’ve never met these chaps they all have a known positive presence on the forum so I’m more than happy to instigate a sale with them .

if I don’t know you or of you ? I use the maximum caution I can until the deal is done AND if it’s a RIF sale  then we’re several mths down the road with no complaints , we all either have had or know someone who’s sold a perfectly good gun to suddenly have a dispute for ‘faulty goods’ dropped on them by PayPal because the buyer has either abused or opened up the gun and broken it and then wanted there money back ! So “trust on both sides” ? Bollox to that you go by reputation and nothing else . 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Sev said:

my point is that somebody may want faster dispatch

 

You have a variable scale for how quickly you post the thing?

 

 

1 hour ago, Sev said:

or live further away that increases shipping costs

 

They may live in Outer Scotchlandia, but it's not very likely.  If they do, they'll know that it costs more to send the dog sleds up there.

 

I'd suggest for your benefit that most buyers would prefer to look a price and know that's what they'll pay, without having to get involved in a negotiation.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

You have a variable scale for how quickly you post the thing?

 

 

 

They may live in Outer Scotchlandia, but it's not very likely.  If they do, they'll know that it costs more to send the dog sleds up there.

 

I'd suggest for your benefit that most buyers would prefer to look a price and know that's what they'll pay, without having to get involved in a negotiation.

 

I will take that on board 👍🏻

[Sev]

23 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

You have a variable scale for how quickly you post the thing?

 

 

 

They may live in Outer Scotchlandia, but it's not very likely.  If they do, they'll know that it costs more to send the dog sleds up there.

 

I'd suggest for your benefit that most buyers would prefer to look a price and know that's what they'll pay, without having to get involved in a negotiation.

 

There’s differences between courier services, and delivery speeds desired. 

 

Also, regarding your comment about negotiation. I have yet to encounter a customer who wants to avoid negotiation. In fact, the majority of enquiries on items are usually people who try and beat you up on price in their first line of the message. 

 

If if someone wants to know the shipping cost, simply asking in their initial enquiry is all it takes. Simple as that. “Ah, you live in X and want it to arrive this coming Saturday by 1pm, according to Y couriers pricing, that will be £Z”

 

Postage is the variable here, so putting approximations on the listing makes no sense as it gets in the way of how the actual item is valued and can vary depending on the customer. 

 

And yes, if you are the kind of person who gets annoyed about whether you have to ask someone about shipping then I definitely wouldn’t be keen to deal with you. Your money is worth less due to the risk you pose to a quick, easy, trustworthy transaction. 

 

I sell very expensive luxury products for a living so I’m pretty well versed in how to structure a deal and negotiate with people. Anyone buying a RIF from me would be given all the expected assurances and everything would be very face-up before I took any money. That’s what I would expect myself, as a buyer. 

[E21A]

Do items listed on retailer websites include postage?? No they don’t, it varies on what you are buying. 

 

Fees being included I agree with, postage does vary so it’s perfectly acceptable to state plus postage. 

[Wo1f]

Agreed on the PayPal fees as it’s the sellers job to take that hit. On the postage, not so much. I’ve sent an aeg through parcelforce for £12ish. Cost me nearly £40 to send a GBBR m14 ebr with mags. One because it was three times as heavy, but also to insure it. 

 

If you can give a ballpark figure that would be ideal. For example.. £500+£15 postage to mainland U.K.. that way if it’s £17 or £12 it’s neither here nor there. If you know it’s particularly long or heavy then advise the seller it may be more 

 

I’ve had some gobshite wanting me to send a load of GHK AK mags to Italy for £10 postage. Not a fucking chance. 

[Druid799]

50 minutes ago, E21A said:

Do items listed on retailer websites include postage?? No they don’t, it varies on what you are buying. 

 

Fees being included I agree with, postage does vary so it’s perfectly acceptable to state plus postage. 

A very true point BUT a retail site will also list its postage costs , normally free/fixed rate or if you pass a set threshold it’s free P&P and as you are buying new goods from a business that’s what you expect .

But a second hand sale of one or two items ? Come on we all know how much we want for what ever we’re selling and have a good idea how much from experience it’ll cost to send out .  

One fixed price will get you a quicker sale than having to negotiate on delivery costs , as others have stated I also think what I want for X,Y&Z I know ruffly how much the P&P is I workout paypal charges add it all up and that’s what I ask for , always have always will and if someone is able to collect I knock both costs of the price for cash in hand . 

just from personal experience having contacted a seller of a reasonably (not cheap) priced pistol early in the am to be quoted late the next day a price for delivery that was higher than the cost of an AEG I’d sent by PF 2 wks previously I’d wasted near two days dealing with this potential sale .

so yes I am against “I want X amount for the gun , but you have to PM me for P&P and Paypal costs on top” 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Wo1f said:

Cost me nearly £40 to send a GBBR m14 ebr with mags. One because it was three times as heavy, but also to insure it. 

 

Why not find that out beforehand and list it in the price, with a note that it will be lower on the off-chance that your buyer is close enough to collect?   Most potential buyers will not be.  Springing another £40 on them once they've shown an interest feels like a bait and switch.

[Wo1f]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Why not find that out beforehand and list it in the price, with a note that it will be lower on the off-chance that your buyer is close enough to collect?   Most potential buyers will not be.  Springing another £40 on them once they've shown an interest feels like a bait and switch.

Because I send test fire videos and demos the night before I post because I’m sick of idiots who don’t know how to work something and claim it’s broken.

 

im not boxing up and expensive, super Niche item that might not sell for weeks to confirm postage when I have to cut it out of the box every time someone wants a picture of a specific component. I tend to give people a rough guess based on previous experience if it’s super heavy or big. If it’s just an AEG then I just say it’s £10 or £15 to post and if it’s a few quid more or less I take the hit. 

 

Then theres insurance. If I know/trust the seller then I just send it 48h. If I’m sending something that costs a grand to some random person then it’s getting insured 

 

You can’t buy anything anywhere where the price of postage is pre added to the price of the item so I don’t see what the big deal is. 

[Keldon]

For me I have no problem with the stated price being what ever with monica +p&p but what I don't like seeing is the seller stating PayPal fees are to be covered buy the buyer. 

[Tommikka]

19 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

 

 

Then theres insurance. If I know/trust the seller then I just send it 48h. If I’m sending something that costs a grand to some random person then it’s getting insured 

 

 

Don’t skimp on insurance because you know & trust the buyer, you aren’t insuring against them but on it arriving safely 

Only save on insurance & tracking if you are happy to take the loss