Should the UK leave the EU?

[Sitting Duck]

Worth remembering when bandying about phrases like "if people don't like democracy" the ones that wanted to stay in the eu didn't want a referendum in the first place.

 

 

Tough - we was given a choice, what we did about it was down to each individual in the end

We all have to make choices - many we would rather not make or decide for ourselves sometimes

Conservatives were banging on about a referendum for ages so people who voted in General elections knew it might be on the cards

 

An important issue like this put to the people to decide - sounds like very democratic to me

 

a while back, Scotland gets granted a vote for YES / NO but chose to remain in UK than go it alone

Cameron gets elected so he has to honour HIS promise he made of EU referendum

(sure he was hoping for another hung government and could wiggle out of referendum he promised if Tories won outright)

 

So as Scotland had recently been given a chance to vote regarding UK and democratically decided to stay in UK

Then pray tell why should this referendum on EU promise by Cameron to the British people not be allowed to go ahead ???

 

Slightly different result this time so times have changed - yes it is a close call proving the country is divided but we know how much now

Very deeply divided - but as for now to consider breaking up a divided UK to even more divisions instead of trying to work together...

Well that is just insane and asking for pure chaos on top of everything else

 

We can bitch & moan about it until the cows come home,

The younger voters will no doubt get another chance at some point possibly in near future as already the EU is considering looking at Freedom of movement issues - whoa I wonder what brought that about ????

 

But rant over - EVERYBODY's vote is just as important - regardless of age young or old - end of

so stop bitching about who voted what way ffs

if people didn't vote or believed one pack of liars over another then tough $hit

 

Democracy is about having a choice - even if you would rather not want it

 

WE are in this now and will have to see what amount of $hit hits the fan for how long

But the wheels did not fall off my car on Friday, World is still going round and we have endured far worse than this or ERM crash & numerous recessions again & again....

 

Look I'm really trying to bow out of this coz I don't want to start throwing crap about

I will leave that to the politicians really - but still think deep down if we all thought EU was all hunky dory happy family stuff we would of remained in it - heck probably never needed to hold a referendum

[proffrink]

Thought I'd let you all know that the £250 billion in liquidity that the Bank of England has allocated to boosting post-referendum EU markets to keep the pound stable is worth 19 years of EU membership fees (by the most conservative estimate - i.e. post rebate, so it's actually more like 25+ years).

 

I was gunna write something else about the FTSE here but frankly we all know the next three months are/were going to be poop anyway - that's just the nature of uncertainty. I think it'd be unfair to attack that angle right now as this are being renegotiated and the markets calm down.

 

Also I gotta admit watching Barclays crash by 35% was pretty amusing.

[Sitting Duck]

Quite funny some of the Europe stock markets took a bigger hit than London market

 

Financial bankers were starting to make a nice earner the eve of results day hence the massive big crash they all quoted

Worth noting the £ to Euro was once at £1 to €1.02 end of 2008, £1 to €1.105 in July '11, Just over 3 yrs ago £1 to €1.13 even

The US dollar dropped a bit to under £1 to $1.50 as soon as US started to raise their interest rates end of 2015 - often about £1 to $1.45ish

but these glitches are nothing compared to the ar$e falling out in 1985 when £1 was worth $1.05 !!!!

 

So if the city & bankers got it wrong (again), made another profit on the eve of results - soz but I have little sympathy for them tbh

I'm not $hitting myself or pi$$ my pants just yet the moment markets wobble a bit which was expected a little bit

Like I said - we have seen a lot worse over the years

(damn it - trying to stay out of it)

[Jedi_Master]

Also I gotta admit watching Barclays crash by 35% was pretty amusing.

That is where the clever people would have purchased shares when stock is low knowing that they will recover again and make a nice profit. After the Northern Rock debacle, Barclays shares fell by about 75% and recovered again.

[Russe11]

At least you're currently in uni and they'd have to try very hard to f*ck it up too badly

 

Poor voted leave: Poor lose their workers rights cos of it

UK workers have more paid holiday than required by the EU. Minimum wage is better than most of the EU and the working hours regulations were passed by our parliament so will remain law after we leave.

 

It is the short term uncertainty that is affecting the markets, not any actual facts.

 

The UK will almost certainly stay in the EEA so trade and migration with EU countries will not be affected. We will now however be free to make trade agreements with non-EU countries and Canada and the US are already clamoring to do this. Even Germany has said they want a trade agreement, but they can't make one (they will have to get the EU to make an agreement or in other words fight to keep us in the EEA).

 

Immigration will actually not be affected. EU citizens will almost certainly still be able to come and live in the UK. Non EU immigration was never controlled by the EU, which is why Calais is currently a bit fooked atm. What will change is that we will no longer have to pay benefits to anyone who manages to get across the channel. If the french decide to revoke the agreement which allows Britain to conduct immigration checks in France and vice versa, this will mean that the immigrant camp will still be in Calais, because everyone will be trying to get out of Britain into France, where EU rules mean they get benefits.

 

Exports to the EU will still have to conform to EU regulations.

 

Healthcare agreements with most of Europe actually predate the EU (anyone remember the E111?).

 

Once all of this is formalised in a couple of years Britains economy will recover and start to reap the benefits, meanwhile we will be able to sit back and watch the EU disintegrate as everyone else realises what a fantastic idea it was to leave.

[Sitting Duck]

The experts were right in saying jobs may suffer....

Particularly if you are a Politician - jeez the fallout is just hilarious to watch them bitch and squabble blaming everybody else

 

Also reports coming in for education that they are now having to restructure many things....

"Where's Wally" books are now going to include a much harder version called:

 

"Where's George Osborne" for the very clever vote hunters to try & locate but he is very very good at going into hiding many say

[Sacarathe]

Nothing is final in democracy, as much as leave vocal voters would have you believe otherwise this week and likewise last week.

[Sacarathe]

An important issue like this put to the people to decide - sounds like very democratic to me

 

Cameron gets elected so he has to honour HIS promise he made of EU referendum

 

 

He does?

[Sitting Duck]

He does?

 

 

Yes - weird that politicians keeping a promise or two now n then...

But he said it and he did give the UK the referendum he promised

 

edit - sod my daft ideas & suggestions

the f*cking politicians should be putting forward stuff than bitching

bollox to it all - we can't seem to get along so what the f*ck now

[proffrink]

A promise as large as a referendum doesn't get forgotten. Not having one would have basically assured no Conservative government in 2020, so from Dave's perspective it had to be done.

 

It's now all about how Brussels want to take this: Keep the UK as a key client for a lot of German and French exports at the cost of looking lenient and risk countries like Greece and Italy with their own independence movements gathering traction or try to make an example of the UK and risk losing a great deal of trade. Obviously it's going to fall somewhere in the middle, but the initial murmurs from Germany are that they want to approach this cautiously. My feeling is that they're going to have some extremely drawn-out conversations over the next 12 months and there's going to be the usual trickle of information feeding into the public.

 

Wild speculation: I think they're going to remove a lot of the social benefits and keep the economical ones. i.e. removing the right to free movement without a visa, but leaving current trade deals largely intact. The EU doesn't want a recession, but they still have to look like they're sticking it to the UK a bit - largely social benefit removal would be a good way to do this. Making a big fuss over withdrawing the money they send us for infrastructure etc. because it'll make headline but ultimately isn't a huge deal like some of the more complex trade is.

 

Still, really wanted to see a properly united Europe with the fat trimmed off (low economic performers with semi-corrupt governments like Greece) and a centralised government that doesn't just dip its hand in when it wants to like Brussels does/did, but is instead a fairly elected and properly weighted parliament based on concentration of population (i.e. the UK - for example - would get more representation as it has a far denser population than say Czech Republic. State system like the US in that state-level laws can still be made. My opinion is still that we could have worked towards this quicker from the inside, but yeh.

 

I just feel like the vote last week has meant I will never see this in my lifetime now, and that's pretty saddening. It's the natural course of things for countries to merge and for larger territories to be governed by a single system (it's just always going to be more efficient), and I think this is going to be the wake-up call for the EU to start reforming the way it governs. It's just a shame that we had to be the ones on the outside rather than any other country.

[Sitting Duck]

Think we have to accept we are a little divided but still have to come together ffs

Hope we get some clarity and unity real soon is all I can say

[padraigthesniper]

We are going to be incredibly divided if this Referendum is acted upon by whoever takes Camerons place looks like Boris is getting cold feet he was shitting himself at his speech. All i know we are much worse off now whether we leave or not. Its not a good time when every weekend you can hear in the distance drunk skin heads shouting EDL and other much more questionable remarks. If we leave and Scotland and Wales and Northern Island dont become independent from our "independence" (LOL) then i will be very surprised.

[Sitting Duck]

That is the reason why we need to keep the extreme nutters out of the way - well out of the way

 

Farage - he is like the drunk Uncle Nigel at a family do

Watch Uncle Nige, he has a drink and goes round upsetting everybody like he did at Aunt Rene's funeral

(every family has got one so to speak)

 

"some" of what he said struck a cord - but f*ck me he goes way way too far sometimes most of the time

but also there are plenty of others on all sides in UK and EU that go way too far with their views left or right

(which is not helping one bit)

 

Boris - well many say why not but think we need a slightly more respected PM like Ian Duncan Smith is my view

(he was leader on Conservatives for a while so don't know if this could happen)

But all the same the we need a good sensible lot of remain/leave to start to sort this out - calmly without throwing dummies out of their political prams

 

But throwing more crap about & threats is not going to help and screw up the markets/economy even more

[AK47frizzle]

RIP Freddos are going to be £1 each

[jcheeseright]

That's OK, £1 isn't what it used to be.

[Sitting Duck]

Freddo's don't matter as they are all fake now since Kraft bought Cadburys

 

It ain't Blitish and its not the same Chocolate any more - it has a more soya synthetic taste for a while now

no doubt they will take out sugar & replace with something else once sugar tax kicks in

[Sacarathe]

Freddo's don't matter as they are all fake now since Kraft bought Cadburys

 

It ain't Blitish and its not the same Chocolate any more - it has a more soya synthetic taste for a while now

no doubt they will take out sugar & replace with something else once sugar tax kicks in

 

With the price increases I don't think that tax's disincentive elements will be necessary as any longer.

[jcheeseright]

Freddo's don't matter as they are all fake now since Kraft bought Cadburys

 

It ain't Blitish and its not the same Chocolate any more - it has a more soya synthetic taste for a while now

no doubt they will take out sugar & replace with something else once sugar tax kicks in

 

Maybe if they took the sugar out of everything there would be fewer fat kids around!

[Sitting Duck]

Just keeps getting better & better this stuff.....

 

It really is just like a messy divorce now - so much for trying to see if we can work something out or part on good terms

Oh well - f*ck trying to talk stuff over let alone think of going to Relate or the John Kerry school of I can solve anything...

Now it turns out some of the "kids" involved - Scotland & Gibraltar are already chatting about living with one EU parent

 

BUT now it gets even better - Germany & others are now saying no informal chats until Article 50 is started !!!

OK - well now it starts to get more $hitty I guess

 

OK well out come the lawyers, gets rather messy, more money being lost on all sides

and the kids - well in the end they will no doubt be told where they are going......

 

Ah - sod it, I'm ordering in the popcorn now (English of course)

coz it looks like lots of drama with no chance of a happy ending

[jcheeseright]

Who knew the EU member countries would make us pay?

Oh that's right, everyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together.

[b1n0gHo5t]

anyone got some chips..for all this salt?

[jcheeseright]

Are you surprised people are salty? the UK lost 120 BILLION in 20 minutes, that's more than we paid into the EU since we joined, my personal savings are now worth a LOT less than they were before and it's fairly likely that my mortgage is going to be significantly more expensive.

What have we gained? Sovereignty... don't make me laugh, we're still going to have to be in the EEA which will mean we'll have to abide by EU rules anyway!

[Sitting Duck]

forget the popcorn I've ordered a pizza for this fallout

 

Reckon there is going to game out later this year

probably something like:

 

Financial Warfare II - this time it's personal

(special limited edition will include the original shadow cabinet members and ultra stealthy George Osborne playable characters)

 

probably followed by the next installment:

 

Financial Warfare III - Everyone for themselves

(the "We all lose" edition)

[Sacarathe]

I hope the next general election does not turn into a leave vs remain as I would like to have more voting choices than just whomever is willing to stand up and say "f*ck the referrendum".

Would rather have repeated referendums like the polls a jury goes through to convict or exhonerate by majority.

Incidentally, I voted in the Boston Borough.

my personal savings are now worth a LOT less than they were before

 

I feel your pain, I sat opposite my parents (moved in with them on friday) at breakfast and was asked to leave the room when I told (politely/depressively berated) them about how their vote has cost me thousands so far. And that's without factoring in the drop in value of our currency. The only silver lining is that I've got several thousand USD. I never imagined this result and i've only myself to blame for not preparing for it.

[ImTriggerHappy]

I feel your pain, I sat opposite my parents (moved in with them on friday) at breakfast and was asked to leave the room when I told (politely/depressively berated) them about how their vote has cost me thousands so far. And that's without factoring in the drop in value of our currency. The only silver lining is that I've got several thousand USD. I never imagined this result and i've only myself to blame for not preparing for it.

People need to stop panicking about the drop, everybody knew it would happen but hopefully it will pick back up.

There are a lot of knee jerk reactions but nobody knows where its going for definite yet as crystal balls dont really work.

 

The EU wasn't working as it was meant to so maybe the gamble will pay off or maybe it wont. But either way it probably won't stay as bad as it looks at the moment.

 

I still think this could be the shake up the EU needs to get it back on the right track and maybe there will be enough changes that a deal can be struck for us to remain in a way that benefits the average person better.

 

As someone who has a family and is living in the middle ground it wasn't working for me and lots of other people in the same boat.

 

One thing people need to think about before slinging mud is that whether its right or wrong for your perspective or situation doesn't mean that your view is right because everybody's view is different but everybody cant be right.

 

We are where we are now so lets deal with it as acting like children squabbling in a playground won't help. Its time to move forward not cry in a corner.